And Mikey finds a way to get matched up against a struggling Flake team, with Andover waiting in the wings for Amsoil.Usthockey13 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:53 am It’s final. TM is 6.4
1 Andover
2GR
3 CEC
4Flake
5DE
6ER
7Anoka
8DM
7AA 2019-2020
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
True...but for the Andover seniors, it’s also their 3rd time to the party & if they make the Final, their 3rd consecutive, so they have a decided experience advantage over all the other teams in Section 7AA. But ya gotta be impressed how well a young GR team has played (since early January). Cloquet hosting ER is the most intriguing qtr final IMO. With their clear (after 24 games) lack of raw talent, if DE gets by FL & somehow pulls an upset over Andover in the semifinals, it would be an upset which would exceed CDH knocking out top ranked BSM (from 2015-2016)northwoods oldtimer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:21 amAll the pressure is on Andover NOT to lose in 7AA. 'Junk yard dogs' from Rapids got no pressure or high expectations.hockey59 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:02 pmGR is clearly on a ROLL. Big win tonight. Shocked Biondi was held off the score sheet the final 2 games of HT regular season. The 7AA Final sure appears to be shaping up as Andover vs GR Could be a real doozy (GR having the section playoff experienced goalie) but Andover holding the advantage in all other aspects. Never having ever broken threw to Xcel, Andover simply needs to handle the pressure of being in the big spot, which is easier said than DONE!karl(east) wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:34 pm Have to like what Rapids is putting together toward the end of the season here. I certainly no longer think this is the one team race we might have thought it was a month or two ago. The defense of the Amsoil curse may be in your hands, Thunderhawks...
Elsewhere, Forest Lake has now lost five of six heading into sections. Wouldn't be stunned to see them lose to Elk River, which has shown some signs of improvement lately, in the quarters.
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Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Grand Rapids vs Duluth East section final incoming , The Amsoil wants it to happen / needs it to happen for attendance
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
It would be huge, but there were actually a lot of Andover fans there last year for the final too. Student section was full and lots of other fans. They were louder than the East fans until late in the 3rd and Overtime. Then I would say the East fans were a little louder.Edinahopkins wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:01 am Grand Rapids vs Duluth East section final incoming , The Amsoil wants it to happen / needs it to happen for attendance
If East wins and everyone else holds serve, it’s going to be really fun Semi-Final Saturday at Amsoil.
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- Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:01 pm
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Can all that experience translate to an expected easy 7AA title win? Only time will tell...........hockey59 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:16 amTrue...but for the Andover seniors, it’s also their 3rd time to the party & if they make the Final, their 3rd consecutive, so they have a decided experience advantage over all the other teams in Section 7AA. But ya gotta be impressed how well a young GR team has played (since early January). Cloquet hosting ER is the most intriguing qtr final IMO. With their clear (after 24 games) lack of raw talent, if DE gets by FL & somehow pulls an upset over Andover in the semifinals, it would be an upset which would exceed CDH knocking out top ranked BSM (from 2015-2016)northwoods oldtimer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:21 amAll the pressure is on Andover NOT to lose in 7AA. 'Junk yard dogs' from Rapids got no pressure or high expectations.hockey59 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:02 pm
GR is clearly on a ROLL. Big win tonight. Shocked Biondi was held off the score sheet the final 2 games of HT regular season. The 7AA Final sure appears to be shaping up as Andover vs GR Could be a real doozy (GR having the section playoff experienced goalie) but Andover holding the advantage in all other aspects. Never having ever broken threw to Xcel, Andover simply needs to handle the pressure of being in the big spot, which is easier said than DONE!
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Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Can anyone tell me how is the TM decided? Do the coaches vote or is it outside of their control? Right now I would think they coaches would vote East, Cloquet, and Forest Lake in that order if they voted based on who is strongest right now (and likely Elk River higher if they were within the TM limit). It appears Cloquet would be locked in at five unless the TM was at least 6.2. I'm just wondering how 6.4 was decided, when, and by whom. It doesn't matter to me one way or the other how the 3-5 teams are seeded--I just want to understand so I can predict more accurately in the future.Usthockey13 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:53 am It’s final. TM is 6.4
1 Andover
2GR
3 CEC
4Flake
5DE
6ER
7Anoka
8DM
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Andover, Rapids, Flake and ER all win in quarters, That would be an awesome Semi-Final!!!! Not likely, but could happen....Andover and Rapids heavy favorites. Flake while on downward slide has already beaten east at home, ER capable of getting an upset against Jacks, so not out of the realm of possibility either.Jeffy95 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:21 amIt would be huge, but there were actually a lot of Andover fans there last year for the final too. Student section was full and lots of other fans. They were louder than the East fans until late in the 3rd and Overtime. Then I would say the East fans were a little louder.Edinahopkins wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:01 am Grand Rapids vs Duluth East section final incoming , The Amsoil wants it to happen / needs it to happen for attendance
If East wins and everyone else holds serve, it’s going to be really fun Semi-Final Saturday at Amsoil.
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- Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:52 pm
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
TBM-
The Tiebreaker Margin (TM) was included starting with the 2012-13 season for Sections that use the QRF for seeding. The main reason we have included TM is to allow Head to Head and other "human" tiebreakers be included when seeding using a mathematical formula, something no other formula has ever done.
After the first season of using the QRF for seeding, Coaches in general were unhappy with certain specific scenarios where head to head was completely ignored. The end result is a seeding hybrid compromise that combines math and normal "human" parameters to help make the seeding process as fair as possible.
Here is how it works.
The Section/Sub-section decides when the last date to include Statewide games will be. The following morning, the QRF calculates and puts teams in an order from top to bottom.
Also at that time, the average QRF score for every team in each Class is determined. In football, that average is multiplied by 10% to get the TM for football. All other sports are multiplied by 7%. The reason football is higher is because there are fewer games played by each team, creating the need to make the margin larger.
Starting at the top, the #1 QRF team is compared to the #2 QRF team in that Section. If the two teams are within the TM, the QRF rankings are removed and the Tiebreakers are applied. If they are not within the TM, then the QRF ranking holds and we move down the list.
If a team with a lower QRF wins the tiebreaker, it has the opportunity to continue moving up the seeds if it A) is within the TM of the next team above and B) wins the tiebreaker with that team.
The end result will ALWAYS be that the team directly above another team in the seeds is either A) QRF ahead by more than the TM or B) won the Tiebreaker. The only way there is a 3-way tie is if all 3 teams have identical QRF numbers, a highly unlikely statistical event.
These are the Tiebreakers as agreed to by the MSHSL.
*note - on 3/3/18 the below was cleaned up to match the exact verbiage approved by the MSHSL in August 2017:
The first tiebreaker is Head to Head Competition
Ranking based on either Conference/Sub-District (C/D) winning percentage OR C/D point total based on the by-laws of the C/D * teams must be in the same C/D
Overall winning percentage
Section winning percentage (if at least 25% of the teams competitions are against section opponents - if not met, #4 is skipped)
Football - 2
Lacrosse - 3
Soccer - 4
Baseball/Softball - 5
Basketball/Hockey/Volleyball - 6
QRF points
Coin Flip
The Tiebreaker Margin (TM) was included starting with the 2012-13 season for Sections that use the QRF for seeding. The main reason we have included TM is to allow Head to Head and other "human" tiebreakers be included when seeding using a mathematical formula, something no other formula has ever done.
After the first season of using the QRF for seeding, Coaches in general were unhappy with certain specific scenarios where head to head was completely ignored. The end result is a seeding hybrid compromise that combines math and normal "human" parameters to help make the seeding process as fair as possible.
Here is how it works.
The Section/Sub-section decides when the last date to include Statewide games will be. The following morning, the QRF calculates and puts teams in an order from top to bottom.
Also at that time, the average QRF score for every team in each Class is determined. In football, that average is multiplied by 10% to get the TM for football. All other sports are multiplied by 7%. The reason football is higher is because there are fewer games played by each team, creating the need to make the margin larger.
Starting at the top, the #1 QRF team is compared to the #2 QRF team in that Section. If the two teams are within the TM, the QRF rankings are removed and the Tiebreakers are applied. If they are not within the TM, then the QRF ranking holds and we move down the list.
If a team with a lower QRF wins the tiebreaker, it has the opportunity to continue moving up the seeds if it A) is within the TM of the next team above and B) wins the tiebreaker with that team.
The end result will ALWAYS be that the team directly above another team in the seeds is either A) QRF ahead by more than the TM or B) won the Tiebreaker. The only way there is a 3-way tie is if all 3 teams have identical QRF numbers, a highly unlikely statistical event.
These are the Tiebreakers as agreed to by the MSHSL.
*note - on 3/3/18 the below was cleaned up to match the exact verbiage approved by the MSHSL in August 2017:
The first tiebreaker is Head to Head Competition
Ranking based on either Conference/Sub-District (C/D) winning percentage OR C/D point total based on the by-laws of the C/D * teams must be in the same C/D
Overall winning percentage
Section winning percentage (if at least 25% of the teams competitions are against section opponents - if not met, #4 is skipped)
Football - 2
Lacrosse - 3
Soccer - 4
Baseball/Softball - 5
Basketball/Hockey/Volleyball - 6
QRF points
Coin Flip
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- Posts: 126
- Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 8:40 am
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Thanks! Why was the TM used 6.4 instead of six? Are the margins round up or down to the nearest whole number? (Cloquet was 6.2 behind East and Forest Lake. If 6.5 is rounded up to 7 but below 6.5 rounded down to 6 that would put Cloquet within the TM if the TM is 6). Just wondering. Thanks.Usthockey13 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:40 am TBM-
The Tiebreaker Margin (TM) was included starting with the 2012-13 season for Sections that use the QRF for seeding. The main reason we have included TM is to allow Head to Head and other "human" tiebreakers be included when seeding using a mathematical formula, something no other formula has ever done.
After the first season of using the QRF for seeding, Coaches in general were unhappy with certain specific scenarios where head to head was completely ignored. The end result is a seeding hybrid compromise that combines math and normal "human" parameters to help make the seeding process as fair as possible.
Here is how it works.
The Section/Sub-section decides when the last date to include Statewide games will be. The following morning, the QRF calculates and puts teams in an order from top to bottom.
Also at that time, the average QRF score for every team in each Class is determined. In football, that average is multiplied by 10% to get the TM for football. All other sports are multiplied by 7%. The reason football is higher is because there are fewer games played by each team, creating the need to make the margin larger.
Starting at the top, the #1 QRF team is compared to the #2 QRF team in that Section. If the two teams are within the TM, the QRF rankings are removed and the Tiebreakers are applied. If they are not within the TM, then the QRF ranking holds and we move down the list.
If a team with a lower QRF wins the tiebreaker, it has the opportunity to continue moving up the seeds if it A) is within the TM of the next team above and B) wins the tiebreaker with that team.
The end result will ALWAYS be that the team directly above another team in the seeds is either A) QRF ahead by more than the TM or B) won the Tiebreaker. The only way there is a 3-way tie is if all 3 teams have identical QRF numbers, a highly unlikely statistical event.
These are the Tiebreakers as agreed to by the MSHSL.
*note - on 3/3/18 the below was cleaned up to match the exact verbiage approved by the MSHSL in August 2017:
The first tiebreaker is Head to Head Competition
Ranking based on either Conference/Sub-District (C/D) winning percentage OR C/D point total based on the by-laws of the C/D * teams must be in the same C/D
Overall winning percentage
Section winning percentage (if at least 25% of the teams competitions are against section opponents - if not met, #4 is skipped)
Football - 2
Lacrosse - 3
Soccer - 4
Baseball/Softball - 5
Basketball/Hockey/Volleyball - 6
QRF points
Coin Flip
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- Posts: 55
- Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:09 pm
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
I am against the whole semi's and finals always being at Amsoil and I really don't want East in again this year, but it would be pretty funny if this happened. Interesting that ER gets a first round match up against a Class A teamBodyShots wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:11 amAnd Mikey finds a way to get matched up against a struggling Flake team, with Andover waiting in the wings for Amsoil.Usthockey13 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:53 am It’s final. TM is 6.4
1 Andover
2GR
3 CEC
4Flake
5DE
6ER
7Anoka
8DM
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- Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:01 pm
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
I will say especially with CEC "Super Fan" folding the tent on AA hockey in early 2020.MWS coach wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:26 amAndover, Rapids, Flake and ER all win in quarters, That would be an awesome Semi-Final!!!! Not likely, but could happen....Andover and Rapids heavy favorites. Flake while on downward slide has already beaten east at home, ER capable of getting an upset against Jacks, so not out of the realm of possibility either.Jeffy95 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:21 amIt would be huge, but there were actually a lot of Andover fans there last year for the final too. Student section was full and lots of other fans. They were louder than the East fans until late in the 3rd and Overtime. Then I would say the East fans were a little louder.Edinahopkins wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:01 am Grand Rapids vs Duluth East section final incoming , The Amsoil wants it to happen / needs it to happen for attendance
If East wins and everyone else holds serve, it’s going to be really fun Semi-Final Saturday at Amsoil.
He should have played that card at post season theater.
Lost his frequency so maybe he is back on Lake Superior Starz bandwagon
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- Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:29 am
- Location: Met Center Press Box
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Elks at CEC has the makings of a revenge game for ER for the Esse shenanigans at Tobies a few years back. CEC Had them beat in Jaremko’s junior year at the now defunct Olympic arena in Elk River before a late PP.
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- Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:52 pm
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Rich- its based off the full season of all the teams points and average. It does not round up or down. If it is 6.4 if any team is with 6.4 points or less of each other they us TM. So Flake and DE had 95 points CEC has 88.8 so there is a 6.2 diff. Flake beat DE so they slot ahead of them, CEC beat flake so they slot ahead of them and CEE/DE split 1-1 and the next Tie breaker was winning % which CEC won over DE. Thus giving us 3. CEC 4. FLake 5. DE
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Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Thanks! I appreciate the insight.Usthockey13 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:10 pm Rich- its based off the full season of all the teams points and average. It does not round up or down. If it is 6.4 if any team is with 6.4 points or less of each other they us TM. So Flake and DE had 95 points CEC has 88.8 so there is a 6.2 diff. Flake beat DE so they slot ahead of them, CEC beat flake so they slot ahead of them and CEE/DE split 1-1 and the next Tie breaker was winning % which CEC won over DE. Thus giving us 3. CEC 4. FLake 5. DE
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Re: 7AA 2019-2020
All good. Very confusing!
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
CEC “super fan” lives in a make believe world. Do you guys actually think the CEC hockey community takes him seriously?northwoods oldtimer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:31 pmI will say especially with CEC "Super Fan" folding the tent on AA hockey in early 2020.MWS coach wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:26 amAndover, Rapids, Flake and ER all win in quarters, That would be an awesome Semi-Final!!!! Not likely, but could happen....Andover and Rapids heavy favorites. Flake while on downward slide has already beaten east at home, ER capable of getting an upset against Jacks, so not out of the realm of possibility either.Jeffy95 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:21 am
It would be huge, but there were actually a lot of Andover fans there last year for the final too. Student section was full and lots of other fans. They were louder than the East fans until late in the 3rd and Overtime. Then I would say the East fans were a little louder.
If East wins and everyone else holds serve, it’s going to be really fun Semi-Final Saturday at Amsoil.
He should have played that card at post season theater.
Lost his frequency so maybe he is back on Lake Superior Starz bandwagon
I’m sure they admire his passion, but I doubt very much that he has the influence he thinks he does. They’ll become a feeder program for Hermantown too.
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- Posts: 2679
- Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:01 pm
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
If CEC goes A level I would agree.norcon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:11 pmCEC “super fan” lives in a make believe world. Do you guys actually think the CEC hockey community takes him seriously? NOnorthwoods oldtimer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:31 pmI will say especially with CEC "Super Fan" folding the tent on AA hockey in early 2020.MWS coach wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:26 am
Andover, Rapids, Flake and ER all win in quarters, That would be an awesome Semi-Final!!!! Not likely, but could happen....Andover and Rapids heavy favorites. Flake while on downward slide has already beaten east at home, ER capable of getting an upset against Jacks, so not out of the realm of possibility either.
He should have played that card at post season theater.
Lost his frequency so maybe he is back on Lake Superior Starz bandwagon
I’m sure they admire his passion, but I doubt very much that he has the influence he thinks he does. They’ll become a feeder program for Hermantown too.
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- Posts: 2679
- Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:01 pm
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Will the @HockeyDJ be making the trip to semi final Saturday?
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Yes, the CEC hockey community takes him very seriously. He’s donated countless hours of his time to the program and to other programs in the Twin Ports. Have you done that?norcon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:11 pmCEC “super fan” lives in a make believe world. Do you guys actually think the CEC hockey community takes him seriously?northwoods oldtimer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:31 pmI will say especially with CEC "Super Fan" folding the tent on AA hockey in early 2020.MWS coach wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:26 am
Andover, Rapids, Flake and ER all win in quarters, That would be an awesome Semi-Final!!!! Not likely, but could happen....Andover and Rapids heavy favorites. Flake while on downward slide has already beaten east at home, ER capable of getting an upset against Jacks, so not out of the realm of possibility either.
He should have played that card at post season theater.
Lost his frequency so maybe he is back on Lake Superior Starz bandwagon
I’m sure they admire his passion, but I doubt very much that he has the influence he thinks he does. They’ll become a feeder program for Hermantown too.
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- Posts: 2679
- Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:01 pm
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Jeffy95 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:48 amYes, the CEC hockey community takes him very seriously. Very interesting! He’s donated countless hours of his time to the program and to other programs in the Twin Ports. Have you done that?norcon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:11 pmCEC “super fan” lives in a make believe world. Do you guys actually think the CEC hockey community takes him seriously?northwoods oldtimer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:31 pm
I will say especially with CEC "Super Fan" folding the tent on AA hockey in early 2020.
He should have played that card at post season theater.
Lost his frequency so maybe he is back on Lake Superior Starz bandwagon
I’m sure they admire his passion, but I doubt very much that he has the influence he thinks he does. They’ll become a feeder program for Hermantown too.
CEC fans should make the most of AA semi Saturday if they get past the Elks. Knivsey included
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Between coaching at the youth levels for 3-4 years, helping with tournaments and watching my own kids play, I guess I’ve put a few hours in. He’s still a drama queen and as one other forum member said, speaks out of both sides of his mouth.Jeffy95 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:48 amYes, the CEC hockey community takes him very seriously. He’s donated countless hours of his time to the program and to other programs in the Twin Ports. Have you done that?norcon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:11 pmCEC “super fan” lives in a make believe world. Do you guys actually think the CEC hockey community takes him seriously?northwoods oldtimer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:31 pm
I will say especially with CEC "Super Fan" folding the tent on AA hockey in early 2020.
He should have played that card at post season theater.
Lost his frequency so maybe he is back on Lake Superior Starz bandwagon
I’m sure they admire his passion, but I doubt very much that he has the influence he thinks he does. They’ll become a feeder program for Hermantown too.
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Has the box square like ER Olympic size rink (it always seemed shorter than 200’) been reduced to NHL sized? I recently learned Centennial did that with their remodel but wasn’t aware ER was no longer Olympic size.alcloseshaver wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:42 pm Elks at CEC has the makings of a revenge game for ER for the Esse shenanigans at Tobies a few years back. CEC Had them beat in Jaremko’s junior year at the now defunct Olympic arena in Elk River before a late PP.
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
Two new rinks in process of being built. Neither will have Olympic size ice sheet. They will be completed for next season. Once completed building which held Olympic sheet of ice will be converted into a field house. Last HS games have been played in the old Olympic, thus now defunct...hockey59 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:47 amHas the box square like ER Olympic size rink (it always seemed shorter than 200’) been reduced to NHL sized? I recently learned Centennial did that with their remodel but wasn’t aware ER was no longer Olympic size.alcloseshaver wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:42 pm Elks at CEC has the makings of a revenge game for ER for the Esse shenanigans at Tobies a few years back. CEC Had them beat in Jaremko’s junior year at the now defunct Olympic arena in Elk River before a late PP.
Re: 7AA 2019-2020
He has donated a lot of time (has nothing but time), but the cec hockey community does not take him seriously. Appreciate all his time and filming but no one looking to him for advise on playing AA or A .Jeffy95 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:48 amYes, the CEC hockey community takes him very seriously. He’s donated countless hours of his time to the program and to other programs in the Twin Ports. Have you done that?norcon wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:11 pmCEC “super fan” lives in a make believe world. Do you guys actually think the CEC hockey community takes him seriously?northwoods oldtimer wrote: ↑Fri Feb 14, 2020 1:31 pm
I will say especially with CEC "Super Fan" folding the tent on AA hockey in early 2020.
He should have played that card at post season theater.
Lost his frequency so maybe he is back on Lake Superior Starz bandwagon
I’m sure they admire his passion, but I doubt very much that he has the influence he thinks he does. They’ll become a feeder program for Hermantown too.