MSHSL Oct 1st Meeting (Boys Hockey Season Fate)

[ClassAGuy]

Well folks since March we have been debating.

I think we all know now there will be a season announced on Thursday but how much will be changed and made different.

Love the ideas of the 2 proposals from MHCA but we know those are a way of asking for a lot to hopefully not get it all cut

I think we are looking at a 2-3 week delayed start due to Football.

Start date in my mind best case is Monday Nov 30th after Thanksgiving weekend.

Hoping we get 20 game but I have been told by most of MSHSL friends you will get 18. (I think some wiggle room)

2 games a week vs same team

NO FANS

Sectional for sure State as of today is a definite no but I think they table that for later. Things could change there.

What are people thought no covid debate please just what do you think I am pretty sure the above is what will be approved.

[InThePipes]

Well folks since March we have been debating.

I think we all know now there will be a season announced on Thursday but how much will be changed and made different.

Love the ideas of the 2 proposals from MHCA but we know those are a way of asking for a lot to hopefully not get it all cut

I think we are looking at a 2-3 week delayed start due to Football.

Start date in my mind best case is Monday Nov 30th after Thanksgiving weekend.

Hoping we get 20 game but I have been told by most of MSHSL friends you will get 18. (I think some wiggle room)

2 games a week vs same team

NO FANS

Sectional for sure State as of today is a definite no but I think they table that for later. Things could change there.

What are people thought no covid debate please just what do you think I am pretty sure the above is what will be approved.

Put yourself in the HS players skates, would 18 games with a section tournament, but no state tournament and no fans be enough to keep you around for the season when there would be other options that offer a lot more in the way of games, a playoff and fans?

I'll hang up and listen.

[jg2112]

How much money is lost if fans aren't allowed in the buildings? That seems to be a significant issue. Who pays for the gap in revenue? Parents of players? Taxpayers?

My .02 - I would rather the teams play 0 regular season games and instead just play 2 warmup games, followed by Sections and the State Tournament. Turning the winter season into a hypothetical exercise with "fun games" and no postseason runs counter to the whole premise of sport, of determining a champion and playing in competitive situations. It doesn't make any sense to me for these games to go on, just to go on. They don't even have the rationale of "needing to fulfill TV contracts" which has forced the pro / college sports leagues to establish bubbles and play in front of no fans in order to avoid losses of $100s of millions.

If the kids are going to be put in the position of playing in the middle of a pandemic, the least they deserve is the opportunity to play for championships.

[blueblood]

Class A Guru Guy:

I think you know more than your willing to come out and say.

[Wise Old Man]

Class A Guru Guy:

I think you know more than your willing to come out and say.

blueblood...me thinks you is right

My sources are saying that Class A is right. Hmmm....

[WestMetro]

I count a dozen+- kids who almost certainly will be in juniors under this scenario. And a dozen more potentially. Also a couple 04s who could head to AAA Sioux Falls for example

What would be logic for no fans . Families will revolt. Rinks have been open since late June with a reasonable amount of fans permitted .

[ClassAGuy]

Class A Guru Guy:

I think you know more than your willing to come out and say.

I have spoken to a source who is not on the committee but very close to it.

Said hockey is like every other sport so they will see a cut in weeks and games like every other sport.

My source said 18 only but also said that no way they falter to public pressure on bringing back football and volley ball with no new data points to support it other then just succumbing to pressure and the MSHSL showed how they really have no idea what they are doing with that choice so who knows... Hoping for 20 games!

Said no crowd because many areas the school and rink are the same and like gyms and pools no crowd is allowed. Said he could not see that changing but again the MSHSL has shown that they will succumb to peer pressure.

Said sectional only because that is all that the others got and will get but who knows.

I wish I knew more that was the best guess from him

Start date after Thanksgiving 18 games sectional and that's it....


I have to ask why do people think hockey will get more then everyother sport when that is not that case ever with MSHSL? I guess that is where I get confused like did you not watch the fall or read the articles the MSHSL is broke and they have many winter sports on the docket on Thursday ... Like I am happy we are gonna have a season hoping for the best but the thought that we are gonna get 24 games a normal start time and a state when no other sports has come close to that ... Like huh???

[ClassAGuy]

I count a dozen+- kids who almost certainly will be in juniors under this scenario. And a dozen more potentially. Also a couple 04s who could head to AAA Sioux Falls for example

What would be logic for no fans . Families will revolt. Rinks have been open since late June with a reasonable amount of fans permitted .

JO volleyball this fall and this summer had fans... No Fans for the MSHSL season though... They don't want outsiders in school owned facilities why I have been told no fans

Not saying they wont be allowed again I never thought the MSHSL would let football and volleyball back even with no new data to suggest why they do it.. So who knows the MSHSL I bet still doesn't even know

[InThePipes]

I count a dozen+- kids who almost certainly will be in juniors under this scenario. And a dozen more potentially. Also a couple 04s who could head to AAA Sioux Falls for example

What would be logic for no fans . Families will revolt. Rinks have been open since late June with a reasonable amount of fans permitted .

Sadly, I agree. They should just turn this season over to MN Hockey and let them run it, I have no idea why they wouldn't if this is their plan?

[ClassAGuy]

I count a dozen+- kids who almost certainly will be in juniors under this scenario. And a dozen more potentially. Also a couple 04s who could head to AAA Sioux Falls for example

What would be logic for no fans . Families will revolt. Rinks have been open since late June with a reasonable amount of fans permitted .

Sadly, I agree. They should just turn this season over to MN Hockey and let them run it, I have no idea why they wouldn't if this is their plan?

Again pipes you have to look at precident so far.

Swimming and Volleyball in fall indoor sports = NO FANS... I have been told wont change this winter but again maybe individual rinks not at school sites will allow them?

[InThePipes]

I count a dozen+- kids who almost certainly will be in juniors under this scenario. And a dozen more potentially. Also a couple 04s who could head to AAA Sioux Falls for example

What would be logic for no fans . Families will revolt. Rinks have been open since late June with a reasonable amount of fans permitted .

Sadly, I agree. They should just turn this season over to MN Hockey and let them run it, I have no idea why they wouldn't if this is their plan?

Again pipes you have to look at precident so far.

Swimming and Volleyball in fall indoor sports = NO FANS... I have been told wont change this winter but again maybe individual rinks not at school sites will allow them?

Exactly my point, MSHSL doesn't need to do anything, but walk away. Allow Minnesota Hockey to run it this year. What does it benefit anyone (players, high schools, etc.) to run a truncated season with no post-season when there is an entity that has stated they are ready to step in?

[Stang5280]

I count a dozen+- kids who almost certainly will be in juniors under this scenario. And a dozen more potentially. Also a couple 04s who could head to AAA Sioux Falls for example

That is still only a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the overall player pool. There are nearly 3,000 boys participating in varsity hockey around the state (plus JV programs). Yes, it sucks for us as fans if high end players bolt for other opportunities, but most kids and their families will be happy to have some form of season, even if under less than ideal circumstances.

[jg2112]

This is what I don't understand. The MSHSL is operating multiple sports right now. Whenever a team has had a COVID outbreak (Mahtomedi soccer, Stillwater XC, Eagan soccer, Alex XC, etc.) they shut down for 2 weeks, isolate, and then start up again.

Why does any sport need to be on a reduced schedule if these schools are acting responsibly? Everyone has information, protocols, access to relief, etc.

This isn't March 2020 anymore. We know a lot more about what is going on and how to mitigate problems.

What am I missing?

[WestMetro]

[quote=WestMetro post_id=750654 time=<a href="tel:1601419318">1601419318</a> user_id=22850]
I count a dozen+- kids who almost certainly will be in juniors under this scenario. And a dozen more potentially. Also a couple 04s who could head to AAA Sioux Falls for example

That is still only a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the overall player pool. There are nearly 3,000 boys participating in varsity hockey around the state (plus JV programs). Yes, it sucks for us as fans if high end players bolt for other opportunities, but most kids and their families will be happy to have some form of season, even if under less than ideal circumstances.
[/quote]

Stang , no dispute on the counts. But I question why reduced Mshsl season is necessary to begin with .... Last time I checked , hockey isn’t played on football field or basketball court

[Eagles93]

Said no crowd because many areas the school and rink are the same and like gyms and pools no crowd is allowed.

If this is their logic, it doesn't make sense. High school gyms are always located in the school. I can think of very few arenas that are school property and/or located on school grounds. Some privates like Breck, STA, SPA, Blake come to mind. And Minnetonka and Apple Valley (and therefore Eastview.) It's been forever since I've been to Tartan, I think that may be a school facility or at least on school grounds, can't remember. And I'm sure there are a few others I'm forgetting or not aware of but my point is why make a blanket rule because a handful of schools have rinks on school grounds? Why not follow the capacity limits and guidelines on social distancing, etc. that each arena sets currently? Heck, the private school arenas are renting out ice now and allowing fans in.

[ClassAGuy]

[quote=WestMetro post_id=750654 time=<a href="tel:1601419318">1601419318</a> user_id=22850]
I count a dozen+- kids who almost certainly will be in juniors under this scenario. And a dozen more potentially. Also a couple 04s who could head to AAA Sioux Falls for example

That is still only a drop in the bucket compared to the size of the overall player pool. There are nearly 3,000 boys participating in varsity hockey around the state (plus JV programs). Yes, it sucks for us as fans if high end players bolt for other opportunities, but most kids and their families will be happy to have some form of season, even if under less than ideal circumstances.

Stang , no dispute on the counts. But I question why reduced Mshsl season is necessary to begin with .... Last time I checked , hockey isn’t played on football field or basketball court
[/quote]

Not sure what you are getting at here WestMetro..

In August they came and said weeks and games would be reduced in all sports.

They came back and then added a 6 game shortened season. Week 6 of High School Football REGULAR SEASON is now during the week of Nov. 9th. Playoff for all teams the Next week.

There is no way they allow for a start time of Nov. 9th. I know that one I am hoping they don't throw it all the way back to Decemeber 7th or Decemeber 14th... I think best case start date is Nov. 30th ...

Where are all these kids gonna go just curious? The USHL had two teams fold this year which means 30-40 USHL kids are looking for a new home and bumped others down to the NAHL. The NAHL has more kids bumping down into their league then normal from the USHL and they have had 4 NAHL teams fold up... There are less spots then ever. I am guessing you mean kids will go AAA/Tier 1?

I hope they can pull off a 20 games with Sectional and leave the state tournament talk alone till they really need to get into... I just keep getting told start date not till after thanksgiving time, No Fans, 18 games and Sectional Only... Does not mean that will be the final choice just was throwing it out.

Tomorrow Night we will know so much more and I hope I am way off!

[blueblood]

Class A Guy

Appreciate the insight.

If that is to happen, the propensity to move to a U19 MN Hockey run program, would be back in play IMO.

Or, schools play MSHSL through the MSHSL regional "events" and MN Hockey sponsors a State Tournament, for Varsity and JV teams. (U19A and U19B)

[InThePipes]

Class A Guy

Appreciate the insight.

If that is to happen, the propensity to move to a U19 MN Hockey run program, would be back in play IMO.

Or, schools play MSHSL through the MSHSL regional "events" and MN Hockey sponsors a State Tournament, for Varsity and JV teams. (U19A and U19B)

Yeah, I agree 100%. Why would HS players "settle" for an 18 game season with no state championship when they could move to a MN Hockey program and have essentially no restrictions on season start, season length, game count or post-season play?

[MWS coach]

The difficult part about zero fans many will take issue with is that will likely not be the same for youth games. As far as what I have heard and when looking at events over the summer and into the fall, attendance and guidelines has been determined by the rink/county/city. Addressing locally makes the most sense as each rink is different and has different capacity. I would hope the MSHSL follows suit and leaves that to a local decision. Okay to be in the rink to watch Youth, but have to leave for HS game? If they are concerned about liability, having decision at local level certainly mitigates the legal risk. If looking at it from the "everyone has to be the same" well then not very well thought out in my opinion.

The important decision is for the players to be able to play, not the fans but in an indirect way, not playing in front of fans does effect the players.

[Docs_88]

FL is a school owned property and they did let 2 fans per player in the door for the summer STP tournament. So is it left up to the individual facility, school property or not, to allow fans? Or, does the MSHSL have blanket authority over that for school owned properties? I for one really hope the MSHSL will at least consider the Coaches Association plan, which seems to be very well thought out, instead of just saying we have to reduce every sport by a % just because that's what they have done in the past. I'm being selfish because I want my Senior to have the best year possible.....

[InThePipes]

The important decision is for the players to be able to play.

This is the most important point, people will find a way to watch via streaming, it isn't that difficult to pull off. I personally couldn't care less about how many people are in the building, just let the kids play the game for a full season with a post-season.

[WestMetro]

The important decision is for the players to be able to play.

This is the most important point, people will find a way to watch via streaming, it isn't that difficult to pull off. I personally couldn't care less about how many people are in the building, just let the kids play the game for a full season with a post-season.

Mostly Yes Pipes, but as MWS said it is important for the kids to have parents and fans in the building. I dont know how MSHSL could possibly force a spectator rule anyway, since communties own 90%+ of the rinks and it is there own decision on spectators, just like has been all summer and continuing throughout the fall.

[HockeyCrazy1970]

I think there might big big surprise news that sort of comes out of nowhere.
How about a shocker announcement about outdoor rinks and games?
Just throwing it out there.

[blueblood]

That's great if you have an outdoor rink, with benches and scorebox areas - Edina, SLP, Coon Rapids, etc.

[6AAGuy]

What a great idea. And allow full fans!