Section Realignment

[karl(east)]

One thing that struck me up north is Duluth Marshall continuing to opt up to AA. Wise has proven to be an excellent coach (and at the college level, to boot), and I’m sure they have longer term visions, but I figured DM would be tired of taking beatings and drop back down for a while to gain some traction.

Any thoughts, Karl (or others)?

This surprised me somewhat also. I guess the thought process is that they aren't any more likely to make a run to State in 7A than they are in 7AA so long as Hermantown is still in 7A. Staying in AA helps them maintain a larger profile and might make them a more attractive destination, especially if the East situation gets uglier. I don't know that it really helps their odds all that much, but I suppose it doesn't really hurt, either.

[Schotzy]

One thing that struck me up north is Duluth Marshall continuing to opt up to AA. Wise has proven to be an excellent coach (and at the college level, to boot), and I’m sure they have longer term visions, but I figured DM would be tired of taking beatings and drop back down for a while to gain some traction.

Any thoughts, Karl (or others)?

This surprised me somewhat also. I guess the thought process is that they aren't any more likely to make a run to State in 7A than they are in 7AA so long as Hermantown is still in 7A. Staying in AA helps them maintain a larger profile and might make them a more attractive destination, especially if the East situation gets uglier. I don't know that it really helps their odds all that much, but I suppose it doesn't really hurt, either.

You nailed it. What would they gain by moving to A? They play the same conference schedule regardless of class. Staying in AA is probably the best long term answer for their program. Will they take their lumps, but at least no one can accuse them of "sandbagging".

[Stang5280]

One thing that struck me up north is Duluth Marshall continuing to opt up to AA. Wise has proven to be an excellent coach (and at the college level, to boot), and I’m sure they have longer term visions, but I figured DM would be tired of taking beatings and drop back down for a while to gain some traction.

Any thoughts, Karl (or others)?

This surprised me somewhat also. I guess the thought process is that they aren't any more likely to make a run to State in 7A than they are in 7AA so long as Hermantown is still in 7A. Staying in AA helps them maintain a larger profile and might make them a more attractive destination, especially if the East situation gets uglier. I don't know that it really helps their odds all that much, but I suppose it doesn't really hurt, either.

You nailed it. What would they gain by moving to A? They play the same conference schedule regardless of class. Staying in AA is probably the best long term answer for their program. Will they take their lumps, but at least no one can accuse them of "sandbagging".

Thanks to both of you. The playoff barrier makes sense and occurred to me shortly after submitting my post, and of course they are locked into conference games either way. I just checked Marshall’s schedule from this past season, and the non-conference portion was mostly 7A teams. So the only real benefit of returning to single A would be a shot at a quarterfinal victory, which isn’t exactly a big incentive. Marshall has a few good young defenseman to build around, so attracting some additional talent could bring them back to respectability.

[defense]

Proposed

2021-2022 & 2022-2023 Section 6A Boys Hockey

Fergus Falls
Alexandria
Willmar
River Lakes
Wadena
Northern Lakes
Breckenridge
Morris

Dropping Little Falls would be the worst decision this section has seen since it was 4A and Detroit Lakes was moved... not as much whining up around there but still makes no sense

[defense]

Sections should be aligned with some geography in mind and if the best 8 are in one section on a given year, then so be it.

It's not "a given year" but rather every year.

At one point the best hockey was in the north so they had a "back door" to let in another team that didn't win its section. Early 2000s it was in the NW suburbs when Anoka, Blaine, Centennial & Elk River were all strong programs. Now it is in the SW suburbs with 4 of the Top 15 teams every year in 6 and another 3 in 2. This isn't a random event. It's chronic, and will continue.

How about this? Merge 7 & 8 so there's always a northern entrant, but never more than one. Move the outlying metro teams like Andover, Forest Lake, St. Michael, etc... into the six sections allocated to where people actually live and the hockey is strong. Take out the decent teams like Lakeville & Hastings from 1 so we always have a southern entrant, even though they'll get rolled until Rochester condenses down to one hockey program.

The six metro sections could be sliced like a pie or a clock. One clustered around (going clockwise from the NW) 11, 1, 4, 6, 7 & 9.

Anyone can say whatever. Just don't act like it isn't possible to draw lines differently, still retain geographic integrity, and at least try to balance out sections so "making it to state" is reserved for teams that actually have a chance to do something once they get there.

The north still has the best hockey, but the back door was done away with when everyone else caught up

[InThePipes]

Sections have always been regional.

I understand it is the state tournament with regional representation and not a Great 8. HOWEVER, where the lines are drawn is fluid and we've seen Jefferson/Kennedy in a different section from Edina/Richfield/Minnetonka, Elk River/Andover with Grand Rapids/Duluth, and Hill/Cretin/St. Thomas all able to reach the state tournament because they are in different sections.

What has been posted goes out of its way to overload 2 & 6 while keeping some of the others like 1 real weak, all the while softening 5 for no apparent reason.

Moorhead has been to something like 20 straight section finals. Wayzata, on the other hand, just reached the state semis a year after bombing out in 6AA QF.

Hill-Murray's section is a joke. Kivihalme had some really good teams at Burnsville and never advanced to the state tournament because of how unbalanced assignments are. Yet one of the Lakevilles can go every year, even when they aren't any good. You know "sections can remain regional" and still offer some semblance of a challenge for all the metro teams. It does not appear that any leveling will occur. 5 is a total farce.

Agree, what they've done with 5AA will water down the state tournament for as long as this lasts if it's approved. Call that one "Section Random Draw".

[Wise Old Man]

One thing that struck me up north is Duluth Marshall continuing to opt up to AA. Wise has proven to be an excellent coach (and at the college level, to boot), and I’m sure they have longer term visions, but I figured DM would be tired of taking beatings and drop back down for a while to gain some traction.

Any thoughts, Karl (or others)?

From what I've been told by those close to the program, Schotzy pretty much nailed it. They believe that by staying in AA they have a much better chance of attracting better talent. Especially any players from outside the area.

[ndirishfighting]

As we all know the teams in each section don’t really make sense in some areas.

Yes I know some teams aren’t ever gonna belong in A or AA but that shouldn’t be that hard to know and acknowledge.

What would happen if team “ABC” for example has to play games against teams comparable to them in their section and the rest is your choice of who you want to play.
Come Mid January since everyone usually knows who should be where is placed in their respective class for the upcoming playoffs.

I would think that makes teams like Hermantown sick of playing the Iron Range teams, Denfeld and whomever else around there. If they are playing more AA teams than A then as we all know they are in the AA playoff.

If it’s a team that’s on the border it goes to a vote and hopefully common sense!!!

[Wise Old Man]

No offense but, “common sense”? Really?!? If common sense was being applied to these decisions, Hermantown would’ve moved up years ago....

[ndirishfighting]

[quote="Wise Old Man" post_id=756550 time=1618453496 user_id=27178]
No offense but, “common sense”? Really?!? If common sense was being applied to these decisions, Hermantown would’ve moved up years ago....
[/quote]

Non taken cause I know what you mean

[elliott70]

Per MSHSL minutes:
9D: Competitive Section Placement

· Following a presentation that included the viewing of maps, process and rationale, the Board of Directors approved in a roll call vote the Competitive Section Placements. Maps detailing the placement of teams will be available for viewing on Friday, April 16 on the League’s website www.mshsl.org

[O-townClown]

Maple Grove stays in 5AA

Cretin-Derham Hall moves to 3AA with St. Thomas & some South Suburban schools

[goldy313]

Maple Grove stays in 5AA

Cretin-Derham Hall moves to 3AA with St. Thomas & some South Suburban schools

If true that puts one of the top rivals in the state in the same section. That is good for all of us

[InThePipes]

Maple Grove stays in 5AA

Cretin-Derham Hall moves to 3AA with St. Thomas & some South Suburban schools

Had MG been jettisoned from 5AA, it would have become the weakest section in the state at the top. From the standpoint of having another competitive quarterfinal game in the state tournament, it's good there was no change there.

[elliott70]

8AA
Goodbye Rogers
Hello, Elk River and Sartell

Blaine to 7AA and ER to 8.

[Usthockey13]

also Coon Rapids to 7AA

[ROSEVILLEHOCKEYDAD]

2021-2022 & 2022-2023 Section 6A Boys Hockey

Fergus Falls
Alexandria
Willmar
River Lakes
Wadena
Northern Lakes
Breckenridge
Morris

Section 4AA 2021-2022 & 2022-2023

East Ridge High School

Gentry Academy Stars

Host: Gentry Academy
New Life Academy of Woodbury
Mounds Park Academy
St. Croix Preparatory Academy

Hill-Murray School

Minnehaha Academy

Host: Minnehaha Academy
DeLaSalle High School
North High School-St. Paul

Roseville Area High School

Stillwater Area High School

Tartan High School

White Bear Lake Area High School

Woodbury High School

Mounds View and Irondale moved to 5AA
Blaine moved to 7AA
Sartell moved to 8AA from 6A

[TheNightman]

8AA
Goodbye Rogers
Hello, Elk River and Sartell

Blaine to 7AA and ER to 8.

Blaine to 7AA is dumb, where did Rogers land?

[elliott70]

5aa

[Stang5280]

8AA
Goodbye Rogers
Hello, Elk River and Sartell

Blaine to 7AA and ER to 8.

Blaine to 7AA is dumb, where did Rogers land?

I assume the justification was to lump all of the schools from the Anoka district in 7AA, since Anoka and Andover are already there. That said, centennial is the more logical geographic fit, being further east of those schools.

[MWS coach]

8AA
Goodbye Rogers
Hello, Elk River and Sartell

Blaine to 7AA and ER to 8.

Blaine to 7AA is dumb, where did Rogers land?

I assume the justification was to lump all of the schools from the Anoka district in 7AA, since Anoka and Andover are already there. That said, centennial is the more logical geographic fit, being further east of those schools.

That would make sense, but Champlin is also in Anoka School district but still in 5AA. Elk River and Rogers in Same district, both moved and to different sections.........

[Stang5280]

Changes to Class A sections
(There are a lot, so let me know if I missed anything)

1A
Added: New Prague, Northfield, and Red Wing
Gone: Dodge County, Mankato East and West, MN River
No Winona Cotter yet?

2A
Added: Hutchinson and LDC
Gone: Armstrong/Cooper

3A
Added: Mankato East and West, MN River
Gone: Hutchinson, LDC , and Willmar

4A
Added: Chisago Lakes, North Branch, and St. Francis
Gone: Gentry, Red Wing, and Tartan

5A
Added: Little Falls, River Lakes, and Cathedral
Gone: Chisago Lakes, Moose Lake, North Branch, Northern Lakes, and St. Francis

6A
Added: Northern Lakes and Willmar
Gone: Little Falls, River Lakes, and Cathedral

7A
Added: Moose Lake

8A
No changes

[ROSEVILLEHOCKEYDAD]

Changes to Class A sections
(There are a lot, so let me know if I missed anything)

1A
Added: New Prague, Northfield, and Red Wing
Gone: Dodge County, Mankato East and West, MN River
No Winona Cotter yet?

2A
Added: Hutchinson and LDC
Gone: Armstrong/Cooper

3A
Added: Mankato East and West, MN River
Gone: Hutchinson, LDC , and Willmar

4A
Added: Chisago Lakes, North Branch, and St. Francis
Gone: Gentry, Red Wing, and Tartan

5A
Added: Little Falls, River Lakes, and Cathedral
Gone: Chisago Lakes, Moose Lake, North Branch, Northern Lakes, and St. Francis

6A
Added: Northern Lakes and Willmar
Gone: Little Falls, River Lakes, Cathedral, and Wadena

7A
Added: Moose Lake

8A
Added: Wadena

I believe Wadena is still in 6A.

[Stang5280]

I believe Wadena is still in 6A.

You’re correct. Thanks for catching the error, and I edited the post above to reflect it. Detroit Lakes not being in this year’s 8A bracket threw me off on the number of teams there.

[karl(east)]

Looks like the new sections leaked a little while back were pretty much accurate in A, but there was a lot of jumbling in the north metro in AA.

Nothing is perfect, but in general I really like the direction of the changes. 2AA and 6AA are probably always going to be some of the deepest sections in the state given the demographics of the west metro, but Cretin to 3AA lessens some of that burden and immediately makes that section more interesting. Looking forward to some serious Cretin/STA battles in the coming years. Similarly, Gentry to 4AA shakes up what had become a somewhat predictable section.

The Blaine shift to 7AA is unexpected; I agree Centennial is a better geographic fit, but the school district point makes sense and I welcome some new blood into the section. Given the youth program trends, trading Blaine for Elk River is probably a wash, at least in the short term; depending on East's ability to get back in the picture, it is a relatively weak section right now. Even without Blaine, I think 5AA became stronger since Rogers is on the upswing, and the Royals' departure from 8AA leaves a wide open race to see who will challenge Moorhead in the coming years there.

As mentioned earlier, I like the changes in Class A, too. The new 5A/6A arrangement does a better job of distributing quality teams and will end the automatic assumption that 1A, 3A, and 5A are the unseeded sections at state. I think New Prague and Northfield to 1A somewhat strengthens that section, and the Mankatos to 3A somewhat strengthens that section. Litch and Hutch have the misfortune of moving to 2A, but it makes sense conference-wise and, with all due respect to them, I don't think it makes 2A any stronger than it already was. (As in AA, that west metro section is just always going to be the deepest one unless something drastic changes in that part of the world.)

So, who knows how intentional any of it was, but credit to the high school league for general steps toward competitive balance.