2022-23 Early Departures
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
Any updated info out there ?
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
JH is the next top skater for Proctor, so you better build a fence around him. Now that the new rink/trail/whateveritis passed in HTown yesterday, watch the flood gates open now!Rails Hockey wrote: ↑Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:56 amI have no idea if it’s Mom or Dad, my statement was in jest. Yes, open enrolled can’t play on the top team. No A teams there this year. Screws up the whole District’s B program with a kid like that out there. I don’t know who J is, but I hope he sticks around too!headsupsticksdown wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:57 pmIs it Dad? Always thought it was Mom? I hope J ends up sticking around, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t….Rails Hockey wrote: ↑Sat Oct 22, 2022 4:21 pm
Yeah, if a kid gets too good sometimes Dad just can’t help himself. He’ll get to watch him score about 200 goals on the B team this year. So there’s that….
He’s only on B due to the sit out rule to transfers right?
Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
If they have info , can people report who has returned from juniors for HS tryouts next week .
Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
YHH confirmed that Ludtke will not be returning to Lakeville South this winter
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
Can't be too brutal, they played Shattuck tough last nite and lost 6-7. Shattuck top ranked u16 team and is absolutely stacked.minnscout wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:56 amSioux Falls u16 team is brutal. I have watched them 3 weekends this fall and they get destroyed by the good mn Tier 1 teams. U16 Blades , which is not a great team, has destroyed them each time they have played. Have they been fortunate last couple seasons to get a couple high end players come play a season, yes, but the team as a whole is average and that is why they are ranked 40th in the country currently and that doesn't count the non national bound teams.arcticpurple wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:43 pm
not strange at all..for being a low end team, they seem to be doing well against the MN Tier 1 non-national bound teams. The level of competition they play all year is top notch...metal sharpens metal. Coaching is great and surrounding yourself with kids and coaches who have the same goal can't hurt ones development on and off the ice. Good for him! Chase your dream kid.
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
Minnesotans parents are sending their 15 and 16 year olds to Sioux falls for winter to play hockey??? For the love of god please tell me this isnt a thing. Parents are awful people. Goodness gracious.
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
If we trust Andover Twitter:
Andover Boys Hockey @andoverhshockey
28m
You heard it here first. Official announcement:
Conway, Thoreson, and Casey are all returning for their senior year. #RollSkies
Andover Boys Hockey @andoverhshockey
28m
You heard it here first. Official announcement:
Conway, Thoreson, and Casey are all returning for their senior year. #RollSkies
Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
westsidescout wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:57 pmCan't be too brutal, they played Shattuck tough last nite and lost 6-7. Shattuck top ranked u16 team and is absolutely stacked.minnscout wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:56 amSioux Falls u16 team is brutal. I have watched them 3 weekends this fall and they get destroyed by the good mn Tier 1 teams. U16 Blades , which is not a great team, has destroyed them each time they have played. Have they been fortunate last couple seasons to get a couple high end players come play a season, yes, but the team as a whole is average and that is why they are ranked 40th in the country currently and that doesn't count the non national bound teams.arcticpurple wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:43 pm
not strange at all..for being a low end team, they seem to be doing well against the MN Tier 1 non-national bound teams. The level of competition they play all year is top notch...metal sharpens metal. Coaching is great and surrounding yourself with kids and coaches who have the same goal can't hurt ones development on and off the ice. Good for him! Chase your dream kid.
Lost 8-2 today.
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
...to the best U16 team in the US. I'm not seeing that as them being "brutal". Average or not very good might be a more fair description. Saying they're brutal seems like hyperbole when they went toe to toe with them the night before.minnscout wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 10:50 pmwestsidescout wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 12:57 pmCan't be too brutal, they played Shattuck tough last nite and lost 6-7. Shattuck top ranked u16 team and is absolutely stacked.minnscout wrote: ↑Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:56 am
Sioux Falls u16 team is brutal. I have watched them 3 weekends this fall and they get destroyed by the good mn Tier 1 teams. U16 Blades , which is not a great team, has destroyed them each time they have played. Have they been fortunate last couple seasons to get a couple high end players come play a season, yes, but the team as a whole is average and that is why they are ranked 40th in the country currently and that doesn't count the non national bound teams.
Lost 8-2 today.
Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
Maple Grove contacts - Gunderson will be at practice today ?
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
Unfortunately that is correct. He will be out for a while is what’s been rumoredInThePipes wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:44 pmMy understanding is he suffered a significant injury about a week ago
Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
Can Moorhead reps confirm status of kids who have been
playing juniors
playing juniors
Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
That is correct, he was moved to the IR on Madison’s listInThePipes wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:44 pmMy understanding is he suffered a significant injury about a week ago
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
When is last time Spuds lost 3 top varsity to juniors and 1 Bantam to NTDP, and at least one other was looking at alternatives ?
Could’ve/ should’ve been a state tourney finalist team , will be interesting to see where Karl puts them in rankings on Wednesday
Could’ve/ should’ve been a state tourney finalist team , will be interesting to see where Karl puts them in rankings on Wednesday
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
Hard to imagine this is how things are...30 years ago it was unthinkable to see a kid leave MNHS. For some, staying in MNHS is important and thats awesome. Playing with your buddies and potentially in St Paul or even a big Section game is an irreplaceable memory. And for some, it will help them with opportunities. But even MNHS has become less about playing with your buddies, hence all the higher end programs getting players to transfer after their freshman year. Even MNSH parents are searching for "better" options for their players and there are probably 5-10 "higher end" players who transfer each year now in todays era.mnpuckster wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:35 pm Minnesotans parents are sending their 15 and 16 year olds to Sioux falls for winter to play hockey??? For the love of god please tell me this isnt a thing. Parents are awful people. Goodness gracious.
That said, there is a lot that Tier 1 can offer a 3-month/25 game MNHS season cannot. It for one gets you outside of the cozy MN bubble, social life distractions, and be fully focused on hockey and training. For 8-9 months they are training 5-6 days, rigorous travel, likely billeting, learning to be independent, and manage their studies. Something that can better prepare them for Juniors/College and frankly life after hockey. But it isn't for everyone for sure and not all tier 1 programs are desirable either. There is a reason why there will probably be 35-40 high ends MN kids that could be playing MNHS this year that are not and playing Juniors and Tier 1 instead.
And the HSEL is not a good training option for kids to get better for the 2 months before MNHSL. No practicing, no coaching, no strength training, very little defense, and zero accountability and why the best players choose not to play it versus NAHL or USHL opportunities.
That is not to say leaving MNHS is the right way. It's just a way and times are much different compared to the past because junior leagues are much younger than they were even 10 years ago.
I can tell you from experience there are many high profile MNHS coaches who are not looking out for the best interest of their players. There are many who are more consumed with their own legacy at the expense of players long term development and are not actively trying to promote ALL their players for hockey after high school.
To say parents are awful who chose this direction is a bit short sided and ignorant.
Just my 2 cents...or 9 cents in this age of inflation.
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
All very good points HT. If I could, I’d like to add that colleges are behind this as well. The top kids in MNHS (D1 commits) are faced with a choice when it comes to playing in college. Not many will be able to go right from HS to college unless they play at least a year of juniors. That puts them in the position of jumping to juniors early so they can enter college as an 18-19 year old playerHockeyTalk2020 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:43 amHard to imagine this is how things are...30 years ago it was unthinkable to see a kid leave MNHS. For some, staying in MNHS is important and thats awesome. Playing with your buddies and potentially in St Paul or even a big Section game is an irreplaceable memory. And for some, it will help them with opportunities. But even MNHS has become less about playing with your buddies, hence all the higher end programs getting players to transfer after their freshman year. Even MNSH parents are searching for "better" options for their players and there are probably 5-10 "higher end" players who transfer each year now in todays era.mnpuckster wrote: ↑Sat Nov 12, 2022 5:35 pm Minnesotans parents are sending their 15 and 16 year olds to Sioux falls for winter to play hockey??? For the love of god please tell me this isnt a thing. Parents are awful people. Goodness gracious.
That said, there is a lot that Tier 1 can offer a 3-month/25 game MNHS season cannot. It for one gets you outside of the cozy MN bubble, social life distractions, and be fully focused on hockey and training. For 8-9 months they are training 5-6 days, rigorous travel, likely billeting, learning to be independent, and manage their studies. Something that can better prepare them for Juniors/College and frankly life after hockey. But it isn't for everyone for sure and not all tier 1 programs are desirable either. There is a reason why there will probably be 35-40 high ends MN kids that could be playing MNHS this year that are not and playing Juniors and Tier 1 instead.
And the HSEL is not a good training option for kids to get better for the 2 months before MNHSL. No practicing, no coaching, no strength training, very little defense, and zero accountability and why the best players choose not to play it versus NAHL or USHL opportunities.
That is not to say leaving MNHS is the right way. It's just a way and times are much different compared to the past because junior leagues are much younger than they were even 10 years ago.
I can tell you from experience there are many high profile MNHS coaches who are not looking out for the best interest of their players. There are many who are more consumed with their own legacy at the expense of players long term development and are not actively trying to promote ALL their players for hockey after high school.
To say parents are awful who chose this direction is a bit short sided and ignorant.
Just my 2 cents...or 9 cents in this age of inflation.
and not have to wait until they are older and have spent their senior year playing HS. Unless they want to play at Mankato
The hockey landscape has changed just like everything else has. The “kids should play with their friends, kids they’ve grown up playing with, etc” is no longer a big part of the decision for the top players. It’s time to turn the page on “the olden says” and accept the facts. I’m not saying I agree but it is what it is. That’s the beauty of freedom. The Elite League has become stale. In the future more of the “Elite” kids will not be playing in it because it doesn’t offer much outside of putting the players in a position to play each game in front of so many scouts/colleges. It’s really good for that. The top players don’t need that exposure.
Talk to most colleges or scouts Minnesota kids are viewed differently than most others from around the country due to the fact they haven’t lived independently, haven’t had to deal with the grind of junior hockey or much adversity thru HS. They want to see them struggle and see that they can figure things out on their own. That will only help them succeed when they get to the next level.
Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
On the other hand , even most of top 50 of MSHSL kids will never earn a dime playing pro hockey , so what’s the rush ? Most of the top 25 get D1 commits after soph or jr season . So , finish HS here, play in HSEL or Blades or both offseason with many S & C options , then go on to play juniors , and then finish career at D1, or D3 for the rest of the top 50 . Very few will earn much pro money unless they go to Europe
Agree with whoever above said that HS programs need to do better job of promoting the community hockey and their kids nowadays . I would add Blue Line Clubs to that list . Cannot expected coaching staffs to do everything . Several of the programs already have good robust social media and outreach to college and juniors personnel , and others could learn from them
Agree with whoever above said that HS programs need to do better job of promoting the community hockey and their kids nowadays . I would add Blue Line Clubs to that list . Cannot expected coaching staffs to do everything . Several of the programs already have good robust social media and outreach to college and juniors personnel , and others could learn from them
Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
I feel like a "hockey has changed, kids don't care about playing with their friends and winning a HS title" sweeping statement is made every year or two, and yet unless someone has some actual data showing a significant increase in eventual MN D1 players leaving HS early, I call BS. Is the "early departures" list getting longer every year?
The NTDP will always pull a few top players, and it seems great players on teams with no chance to win a HS title leave early with some regularity, but the pull to be a part of a great MN HS team still appears strong. Sure, there are occasional exoduses, but those seem to happen when a team has either already won a title (GR in 2017, Herm this year), or as the result of a coaching controversy.
If anything, the unfortunate uptick in transfers to top programs is an indicator that the desire to win at HS is as strong as ever. (Or, at least the desire for the players' parents to brag on social media is as strong as ever.)
The NTDP will always pull a few top players, and it seems great players on teams with no chance to win a HS title leave early with some regularity, but the pull to be a part of a great MN HS team still appears strong. Sure, there are occasional exoduses, but those seem to happen when a team has either already won a title (GR in 2017, Herm this year), or as the result of a coaching controversy.
If anything, the unfortunate uptick in transfers to top programs is an indicator that the desire to win at HS is as strong as ever. (Or, at least the desire for the players' parents to brag on social media is as strong as ever.)
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
WestMetro wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 11:22 am Agree with whoever above said that HS programs need to do better job of promoting the community hockey and their kids nowadays . I would add Blue Line Clubs to that list . Cannot expected coaching staffs to do everything . Several of the programs already have good robust social media and outreach to college and juniors personnel , and others could learn from them
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
1 sophmore (S. Laurilla) to NTDP, and three seniors to play Juniors (Bentz, Schiller and Gramer) and nine that graduated from last year's team there will be 11 new players on the Varsity. I don't see this team in the top 10. *Bantam AA team won state last year. I hear Coach Ammerman is on the hot seat.WestMetro wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:36 pm When is last time Spuds lost 3 top varsity to juniors and 1 Bantam to NTDP, and at least one other was looking at alternatives ?
Could’ve/ should’ve been a state tourney finalist team , will be interesting to see where Karl puts them in rankings on Wednesday
Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
Would be interesting to see a comprehensive list of players from the top teams lost to Juniors and the NTDP.
Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
Rumor mill True on Coach Ammerman they want him out in Spudville? Been a consistent State Tournament team since he took over but of late they seem to lose the first round game often once they get to St Paul. I heard people wanted Cullen to be the guy now 2 years ago but I thought that was not true as Ammerman kept putting out good teams. Interesting if he is on the hot seat. Got his start at Class A Windom! Also seemed like a nice guy and teams played hard and were structured and well coached from watching them online. Surprised me to read that but maybe the surge of early departs are part of it.Potatohead9 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:07 pm1 sophmore (S. Laurilla) to NTDP, and three seniors to play Juniors (Bentz, Schiller and Gramer) and nine that graduated from last year's team there will be 11 new players on the Varsity. I don't see this team in the top 10. *Bantam AA team won state last year. I hear Coach Ammerman is on the hot seat.WestMetro wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:36 pm When is last time Spuds lost 3 top varsity to juniors and 1 Bantam to NTDP, and at least one other was looking at alternatives ?
Could’ve/ should’ve been a state tourney finalist team , will be interesting to see where Karl puts them in rankings on Wednesday
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Re: 2022-23 Early Departures
I tend to agree with you, but how many HS head coaches are not deemed to be on the hot seat? I don't think that list is very long.ClassAGuy wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:14 amRumor mill True on Coach Ammerman they want him out in Spudville? Been a consistent State Tournament team since he took over but of late they seem to lose the first round game often once they get to St Paul. I heard people wanted Cullen to be the guy now 2 years ago but I thought that was not true as Ammerman kept putting out good teams. Interesting if he is on the hot seat. Got his start at Class A Windom! Also seemed like a nice guy and teams played hard and were structured and well coached from watching them online. Surprised me to read that but maybe the surge of early departs are part of it.Potatohead9 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:07 pm1 sophmore (S. Laurilla) to NTDP, and three seniors to play Juniors (Bentz, Schiller and Gramer) and nine that graduated from last year's team there will be 11 new players on the Varsity. I don't see this team in the top 10. *Bantam AA team won state last year. I hear Coach Ammerman is on the hot seat.WestMetro wrote: ↑Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:36 pm When is last time Spuds lost 3 top varsity to juniors and 1 Bantam to NTDP, and at least one other was looking at alternatives ?
Could’ve/ should’ve been a state tourney finalist team , will be interesting to see where Karl puts them in rankings on Wednesday