Should head-to-head results be only factor in section seeding?

[elliott70]

The two best teams meeting in the quarterfinal blows, that's why we shouldn't go back to that.

I did not like the old system, but not fond of the coaches doing the seeding either.

[cjmhockey19]

I'd give far more weight to a game played on Feb 10 than a game played on Dec 10. If the buggy only head to head game was in Dec, I just don't see that as having much bearing on seeding that takes place on Feb 18th.

In any case, a coach can use whatever parameters he cares to use. Using records, whether head to head or overall, would not yield a clear result. There is way too much variance in scheduling.

And don't start with this "ditch conferences and play two games against each section team" nonsense. It might work for fut-buh, but not for hockey. I don't want my Pioneers wasting two games each against Roseville, Gentry, and Mounds View.

But youre ok with the Pios wasting 4 games on the likes of Simley, Tartan, SSP and Sibley

[BodyShots]

And if Team A beats Team B
Tema B beats Team C
And Team C beats Team A????

Team A beats Team B when Team B starting goal tender is out with the flu.

Coaches voting works IF the coaches are playing all or most of the teams in their section,
AND they are honest and not playing games.

Coach Randolph was accused of playing games but who knows when a coach honestly feels about another team, or they are trying to manipulate the system.

QRF is close by season end but not nearly perfect.

Pagestat gives great results but who is to say that cannot be fooled with.

Even Karl and ClassAguy are not without sin.

Bottom line is.....
I have no idea what the ideal system is but pagestat would be my choice.

Oh the memories. Who knows what went on in those bathroom breaks?

[goldy313]

1AA will have that this year …..in a number of spots.

Mayo beat North, North beat Hastings, Hastings tied Mayo.

John Marshall beat Mayo handily. JM didn’t play any Lakeville school or Hastings

What do you do with JM? Head to head they are a #2 or #3 seed. Computer rankings put them as a 5-8. Lee will make his money in 1AA.

[Slap Shot]

The answer is no, it should not be the only factor and I suspect it's not for many of those that vote.

[Hockeyfan911]

Would love to be fly on wall for 5aa and 7aa coaches seeding. Somewhat similar situations. DE won h2h but And owns every other comparison by significant margin - quality wins, sos, qrf, pagestat. Maple Grove isn’t the 4th best team in 5aa. If I was betting man I’d still take them. Great topic for debate though and not sure there is a perfect answer. Yet for those that say it doesn’t matter cause you have to play them all is just simply wrong. Do want Rogers in the semi or someone else? Do you want GR or Coon Rapids

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

[/quote]

But youre ok with the Pios wasting 4 games on the likes of Simley, Tartan, SSP and Sibley
[/quote]

Show me where I ever said or even implied that. Oh yeah, you can't. Because I don't care for that. At least it's one game apiece, and not two, like it used to be. That's bad enough, so why would I want to add more mediocre opponents???

I'm old enough to remember when we played a full double round robin in the City Conference, and how three years in a row we lost in the state quarterfinals.

[cjmhockey19]

But youre ok with the Pios wasting 4 games on the likes of Simley, Tartan, SSP and Sibley
[/quote]

Show me where I ever said or even implied that. Oh yeah, you can't. Because I don't care for that. At least it's one game apiece, and not two, like it used to be. That's bad enough, so why would I want to add more mediocre opponents???

I'm old enough to remember when we played a full double round robin in the City Conference, and how three years in a row we lost in the state quarterfinals.
[/quote]

Hill-Murray should go independent then, you get everything you want and MORE!!!

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

But youre ok with the Pios wasting 4 games on the likes of Simley, Tartan, SSP and Sibley

Show me where I ever said or even implied that. Oh yeah, you can't. Because I don't care for that. At least it's one game apiece, and not two, like it used to be. That's bad enough, so why would I want to add more mediocre opponents???

I'm old enough to remember when we played a full double round robin in the City Conference, and how three years in a row we lost in the state quarterfinals.
[/quote]

Hill-Murray should go independent then, you get everything you want and MORE!!!
[/quote]

What, and give up those two games with the Zephyrs??? Hey, the over/under on Sampairs has been as high as 4.5 at some of those games.

[Joe2015]

The body of work in section play is what should be used to determine section seedings. If 2 teams seem to be in a tie with section games, then look at their body of work and common opponents.

When it comes to the state tournament, I am old school and wish they would go back to the tournament basically being set years ahead of time and get away from the sometimes biased seeding process. So what if the 2 best teams on paper meet in the quarters?

I dont disagree...........but there is no uniformity when it comes to section schedules: I think you find some instances where some teams dont play a single section opponent

I think there should be a rule where you have to play every section opponent at least once.......................but I probably have a better chance of winning powerball before that rule gets passed

[Joe2015]

The two best teams meeting in the quarterfinal blows, that's why we shouldn't go back to that.

I did not like the old system, but not fond of the coaches doing the seeding either.

Whats this "old system" you are referring to?

[elliott70]

The two best teams meeting in the quarterfinal blows, that's why we shouldn't go back to that.

I did not like the old system, but not fond of the coaches doing the seeding either.

Whats this "old system" you are referring to?

The state was seeded in advance and rotated every year.
1 played 2
3 played 4
Etc,
The next year
1 played 4 and so on

Every year was set and predetermined.

[TTpuckster]

Back when I played; a long, long time ago, there was no seeding. They just rotated the regions each year. Planned way ahead. This is the really old system.

[Green and White Fan]

The one argument for seeding the tournament rather than the old set up was to get the 2 best teams in the final as many years as possible. I believe the seedings have been going on for 16 years and the average championship game score in that time is 4.38 to 1.75. In the final 16 years of the old style of state tournament pairings the championship score is 4.31 to 1.31, so really not much of a difference. Not sure what conclusions to draw other than it really hasn't effected the results of the championship games much. The old way seems to have been just fine and it takes out any chance of bias. My opinion.

[Traxler]

I like the seeding of teams. No one wanted Duluth East to play Jefferson in 1995 quarters. Even if there is some bias the seeds have been fairly easy to predict and do protect us fans from having watch the top teams play each other in the quarterfinals.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

The one argument for seeding the tournament rather than the old set up was to get the 2 best teams in the final as many years as possible. I believe the seedings have been going on for 16 years and the average championship game score in that time is 4.38 to 1.75. In the final 16 years of the old style of state tournament pairings the championship score is 4.31 to 1.31, so really not much of a difference. Not sure what conclusions to draw other than it really hasn't effected the results of the championship games much. The old way seems to have been just fine and it takes out any chance of bias. My opinion.

I can assure you that seeding has effected which teams are in the final.

Just imagine if the section pairings were rotated, and Wayzata and Edina were to meet in the first round. Heads would explode. It's not all that different than Tonka meeting Edina in the state quarters this year.

[Green and White Fan]

Enjoy the quarter final game then of Wayzata and Edina! Does hanging a runner-up banner instead of a consolation championship banner really matter to anyone other than Moorhead? My point is, the results of the championship games have changed little when taking any chance of bias out by having the format predetermined. Nobody from up north liked the years Roseau played Grand Rapids in the first round or Sect. 7 vs Sect. 8, but it happened in the rotation and it was lived with. Play the games and the teams will decide who is number 1, not some coaches or sports writers.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

Ah, yes, I do recall the whining, "But the 218 is so special! We shouldn't have to play each other in the first round!" In those years I'd wear one of those 'Sconi cheese heads, "Hey Ranger, wanna bite of this to go with that whine?"

STMA and Andover made great reps for 8 & 7.

[mnmouth]

Ah, yes, I do recall the whining, "But the 218 is so special! We shouldn't have to play each other in the first round!" In those years I'd wear one of those 'Sconi cheese heads, "Hey Ranger, wanna bite of this to go with that whine?"

STMA and Andover made great reps for 8 & 7.

Loved it when 7 and 8 met in the Quarters. Guaranteed a Northern team in the Semis.

[Duluthguy]

Loved it when 7 and 8 met in the Quarters. Guaranteed a Northern team in the Semis.

Correct. This is the way I always look at it, even when it happens under the current process. The glass is half full.

[Fightinghawklover]

Ah, yes, I do recall the whining, "But the 218 is so special! We shouldn't have to play each other in the first round!" In those years I'd wear one of those 'Sconi cheese heads, "Hey Ranger, wanna bite of this to go with that whine?"

STMA and Andover made great reps for 8 & 7.

Uh oh!! Poking the Northern Bear!!! Love it!

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

Ah, yes, I do recall the whining, "But the 218 is so special! We shouldn't have to play each other in the first round!" In those years I'd wear one of those 'Sconi cheese heads, "Hey Ranger, wanna bite of this to go with that whine?"

STMA and Andover made great reps for 8 & 7.

Uh oh!! Poking the Northern Bear!!! Love it!

I know, right? It's like when I said that this Mother Theresa gal needed to be taken down a peg or two.

My next new topic will be on why the 218 should be one section and southern MN should be split east and west and put with other sections.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

Loved it when 7 and 8 met in the Quarters. Guaranteed a Northern team in the Semis.

Correct. This is the way I always look at it, even when it happens under the current process. The glass is half full.

Because there's no way either can get there on their own?

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

Ah, yes, I do recall the whining, "But the 218 is so special! We shouldn't have to play each other in the first round!" In those years I'd wear one of those 'Sconi cheese heads, "Hey Ranger, wanna bite of this to go with that whine?"

STMA and Andover made great reps for 8 & 7.

Loved it when 7 and 8 met in the Quarters. Guaranteed a Northern team in the Semis.

I see your point, an Andover - STMA quarterfinal would be fun.

[Fightinghawklover]

Ah, yes, I do recall the whining, "But the 218 is so special! We shouldn't have to play each other in the first round!" In those years I'd wear one of those 'Sconi cheese heads, "Hey Ranger, wanna bite of this to go with that whine?"

STMA and Andover made great reps for 8 & 7.

Loved it when 7 and 8 met in the Quarters. Guaranteed a Northern team in the Semis.

I see your point, an Andover - STMA quarterfinal would be fun.

It would be great to see Andover vs STMA. Hockey as we know it would end and the 218er’s would be demanding their own state tournament.