2023-2024 New Section Alignment?

[High Heat]

Anyone have any guesses on what sections could look like next year with Rock Ridge & Denfeld going AA?

[stpaul]

Does this mean Andover goes back to 5AA?

[ClassAGuy]

Here was I guess I did (I will put Rosemount in 1AA as fall back if JM is dead)

1AA (9)- Lakeville South, Rochester Mayo, Lakeville North, Rochester Century, Hastings, Rochester John Marshall, Owatonna, Farmington, Rosemount
2AA (9)- Minnetonka, Chanhassen, Holy Family Catholic, Shakopee, Eden Prairie, Prior Lake, Chaska, Bloomington Jefferson, Waconia
3AA (8)- STA, CDH, Eastview, Apple Vally/Burnsville, Park Cottage Grove, Eagan, Woodbury, East Ridge
4AA (8)- HM, WBL, Stillwater, Gentry, Roseville, Tartan, Mounds View, Irondale
5AA (9)- MG, Rogers, Centinnal, CP, Spring Lake Park, Osseo, Blaine, Coon Rapids, TG
6AA (8)- Edina, Wayzata, BSM, AHA, Blake, St Louis Park, Hopkins, Armstrong/Cooper
7AA (9)- Andover, Northern Edge, East, GR, Anoka, DM, FL, DD, RR
8AA (9)- Moorhead, Bemidji, Roseau, St Cloud, STMA, Brainerd, Buffalo, ER, Sartell

1A- (9) Albert Lea, Dodge County, La Crescent, Rochester Lourdes, Winona, Waseca, Austin, Faribault, New Prague
2A- (10) Orono, Providence Academy, Delano, Minneapolis, Southwest Christian, Breck, Mound Westonka, Bloomington Kennedy, Hutchinson, LDC
3A- (10) New Ulm, Luverne, Marshall, Windom, Fairmont, Worthington, Redwood Valley, Mankato East, Mankato West, Minnesota River
4A- (10) Mahtomedi, Two Rivers, St Paul Highland Park, St Paul Academy, Simley, South St Paul, St Paul Johnson, Northfield, Red Wing, Chisago Lakes
5A- (9) Monticello, Cambridge Isanti, St Cloud Cathedral, Princeton, Sauk Rapids, Pine City, Becker/Big Lake, Mora, Little Falls
6A- (9) Alexandria, Fergus Falls, Northern Lakes, Wadena, Morris Benson, Prairie Centre, Breckenridge/Wahpeton, River Lakes, Willmar
7A- (9) Hermantown, Hibbing, Cloquet, Greenway, Proctor, International Falls, North Shore, Ely, Moose Lake
8A- (10) Warroad, East Grand Forks, Detroit Lakes, Thief River Falls, Kittson County Central, Red Lake Falls, Bagley/Fosston, Park Rapids, Crookston, Lake of the Woods

[ClassAGuy]

Here was I guess I did (I will put Rosemount in 1AA as fall back if JM is dead)

1AA (9)- Lakeville South, Rochester Mayo, Lakeville North, Rochester Century, Hastings, Rochester John Marshall, Owatonna, Farmington, Rosemount
2AA (9)- Minnetonka, Chanhassen, Holy Family Catholic, Shakopee, Eden Prairie, Prior Lake, Chaska, Bloomington Jefferson, Waconia
3AA (8)- STA, CDH, Eastview, Apple Vally/Burnsville, Park Cottage Grove, Eagan, Woodbury, East Ridge
4AA (8)- HM, WBL, Stillwater, Gentry, Roseville, Tartan, Mounds View, Irondale
5AA (9)- MG, Rogers, Centinnal, CP, Spring Lake Park, Osseo, Blaine, Coon Rapids, TG
6AA (8)- Edina, Wayzata, BSM, AHA, Blake, St Louis Park, Hopkins, Armstrong/Cooper
7AA (9)- Andover, Northern Edge, East, GR, Anoka, DM, FL, DD, RR
8AA (9)- Moorhead, Bemidji, Roseau, St Cloud, STMA, Brainerd, Buffalo, ER, Sartell

1A- (9) Albert Lea, Dodge County, La Crescent, Rochester Lourdes, Winona, Waseca, Austin, Faribault, New Prague
2A- (10) Orono, Providence Academy, Delano, Minneapolis, Southwest Christian, Breck, Mound Westonka, Bloomington Kennedy, Hutchinson, LDC
3A- (10) New Ulm, Luverne, Marshall, Windom, Fairmont, Worthington, Redwood Valley, Mankato East, Mankato West, Minnesota River
4A- (10) Mahtomedi, Two Rivers, St Paul Highland Park, St Paul Academy, Simley, South St Paul, St Paul Johnson, Northfield, Red Wing, Chisago Lakes
5A- (9) Monticello, Cambridge Isanti, St Cloud Cathedral, Princeton, Sauk Rapids, Pine City, Becker/Big Lake, Mora, Little Falls
6A- (9) Alexandria, Fergus Falls, Northern Lakes, Wadena, Morris Benson, Prairie Centre, Breckenridge/Wahpeton, River Lakes, Willmar
7A- (9) Hermantown, Hibbing, Cloquet, Greenway, Proctor, International Falls, North Shore, Ely, Moose Lake
8A- (10) Warroad, East Grand Forks, Detroit Lakes, Thief River Falls, Kittson County Central, Red Lake Falls, Bagley/Fosston, Park Rapids, Crookston, Lake of the Woods

Things that we don't know...

Will Northfield & Nee Prague be back to AA? They were AA two years ago then dropped down but very high close to the cut enrollments they could fill into the 1AA Gap.

Will Tartan petition down to Class A? MPLS is an example of school districts with co-opts that are above AA enrollment but due to very high free and reduced lunch get a waiver to stay down in Class A. Tartan could fill the gap in 4A

Will Northern Edge try to petition down when the section maps came out two years ago North Branch and St Francis were in 4A but then co opt that fall and got thrown into 7AA.

I hear St Cloud may try to petition down they are very similar to MPLS high enrollments co-opt but districts hav e very high free and reduced lunch number. They could fill in 6A

What happens to St Paul Johnson? Do they co-opt with Highland Park and if so do they move into 3AA then or will they be allowed to stay in 4A

Waconia is next highest enrollment they just missed the cut last time...

Lots of moving parts and the MSHSL then just puts it into a computer and the Maps are made by geography

End of the day I have looked at the Maps and put a bunch of different scenarios in

Andover is 7AA they wont be 8AA Rogers will go back up there before them and they wont be 5AA Coon Rapids, Blaine and Anoka all go there before them.

It will be interesting to see its a map that is sometimes frustrating

In Class A I remember seeing a game at State where Duluth Marshall (7A) played Hermantown (5A) and the schools were like 7 miles apart...

So many variables to consider why its hard to even guess but I don't see Andover moving from 7AA

Again all speculation just throwing out some ideas. I hush up now but will be curious to see how things look whenever these come out thinking Early April is when they do them there will be som shake up.

[StanleyCup55]

I don’t see Andover going anywhere but Blaine and Coon Rapids should be back down in 5AA I would think.

Would like to see them shift some teams like Mounds View, Irondale and even Centennial over to section 4AA and maybe move Woodbury and East Ridge over to 3AA.

[bardown27]

based on this document, looks like enrollment cut off for hockey is going down. was 1299 and above for 2021/2022 and 2022/2023 seasons, looks like it is dropping to 1202 for 2023/2024 and 2024/2025 seasons

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 2025_0.pdf

[ClassAGuy]

based on this document, looks like enrollment cut off for hockey is going down. was 1299 and above for 2021/2022 and 2022/2023 seasons, looks like it is dropping to 1202 for 2023/2024 and 2024/2025 seasons

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 2025_0.pdf

WOW this will have a big impact then

Based on 2021-22 & 22-23 Emrollments all the below will be bumped up to AA
Waconia 1288 Most likely to 2AA
Northfield 1281 Most likely to 1AA
Sauk Rapids 1280 Most likely to 8AA
Bloomington Kennedy 1252 most likely to 2AA or maybe this bumps them and Jefferson back into 3AA?
New Prague 1250 most likely to 2AA
Two Rivers 1209 most likely to 4AA
Alexandria 1206 most likely to 8AA

Would bump St Micheal & Buffalo out of 8AA maybe with Alex and Sauk Rapids coming in...

Fun to speculate if those enrollments are true and the above cutoff looks much lower now wow big changes ahead the New Sections are approved on April 6th so we wont have to wait terribly long

[bardown27]

based on this document, looks like enrollment cut off for hockey is going down. was 1299 and above for 2021/2022 and 2022/2023 seasons, looks like it is dropping to 1202 for 2023/2024 and 2024/2025 seasons

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 2025_0.pdf

WOW this will have a big impact then

Based on 2021-22 & 22-23 Emrollments all the below will be bumped up to AA
Waconia 1288 Most likely to 2AA
Northfield 1281 Most likely to 1AA
Sauk Rapids 1280 Most likely to 8AA
Bloomington Kennedy 1252 most likely to 2AA or maybe this bumps them and Jefferson back into 3AA?
New Prague 1250 most likely to 2AA
Two Rivers 1209 most likely to 4AA
Alexandria 1206 most likely to 8AA

Would bump St Micheal & Buffalo out of 8AA maybe with Alex and Sauk Rapids coming in...

Fun to speculate if those enrollments are true and the above cutoff looks much lower now wow big changes ahead the New Sections are approved on April 6th so we wont have to wait terribly long

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 4-2025.pdf

here are enrollments for 2023/2024 2024/2025.

Waconia 1289 (AA unless petition down)
NF 1102 (A)
SR 1197 (A)
Kennedy 1182 (A)
NP 1255 (AA)
2R 1202 (AA)
Alex 1168 (A)

[rainier2]

If those numbers are used, that would put Rock Ridge in AA anyway, if my math is correct. Edit: Looks like RR at 1181, so they would still be opting up to AA

Side note, it seems Proctor/Hermantown girls would be AA also.

Bemidji would no longer be an opt up.

[ClassAGuy]

based on this document, looks like enrollment cut off for hockey is going down. was 1299 and above for 2021/2022 and 2022/2023 seasons, looks like it is dropping to 1202 for 2023/2024 and 2024/2025 seasons

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 2025_0.pdf

WOW this will have a big impact then

Based on 2021-22 & 22-23 Emrollments all the below will be bumped up to AA
Waconia 1288 Most likely to 2AA
Northfield 1281 Most likely to 1AA
Sauk Rapids 1280 Most likely to 8AA
Bloomington Kennedy 1252 most likely to 2AA or maybe this bumps them and Jefferson back into 3AA?
New Prague 1250 most likely to 2AA
Two Rivers 1209 most likely to 4AA
Alexandria 1206 most likely to 8AA

Would bump St Micheal & Buffalo out of 8AA maybe with Alex and Sauk Rapids coming in...

Fun to speculate if those enrollments are true and the above cutoff looks much lower now wow big changes ahead the New Sections are approved on April 6th so we wont have to wait terribly long

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 4-2025.pdf

here are enrollments for 2023/2024 2024/2025.

Waconia 1289 (AA unless petition down)
NF 1102 (A)
SR 1197 (A)
Kennedy 1182 (A)
NP 1255 (AA)
2R 1202 (AA)
Alex 1168 (A)

Where did you find the new numbers? Great information Thanks

Holy Smokes NFLD went from 1281 to 1102 They lost a ton of kids or maybe new free and reduced numbers.

So looks like the three getting bumped up are Waconia, New Prague and Two Rivers....

[bardown27]

WOW this will have a big impact then

Based on 2021-22 & 22-23 Emrollments all the below will be bumped up to AA
Waconia 1288 Most likely to 2AA
Northfield 1281 Most likely to 1AA
Sauk Rapids 1280 Most likely to 8AA
Bloomington Kennedy 1252 most likely to 2AA or maybe this bumps them and Jefferson back into 3AA?
New Prague 1250 most likely to 2AA
Two Rivers 1209 most likely to 4AA
Alexandria 1206 most likely to 8AA

Would bump St Micheal & Buffalo out of 8AA maybe with Alex and Sauk Rapids coming in...

Fun to speculate if those enrollments are true and the above cutoff looks much lower now wow big changes ahead the New Sections are approved on April 6th so we wont have to wait terribly long

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 4-2025.pdf

here are enrollments for 2023/2024 2024/2025.

Waconia 1289 (AA unless petition down)
NF 1102 (A)
SR 1197 (A)
Kennedy 1182 (A)
NP 1255 (AA)
2R 1202 (AA)
Alex 1168 (A)

Where did you find the new numbers? Great information Thanks

Holy Smokes NFLD went from 1281 to 1102 They lost a ton of kids or maybe new free and reduced numbers.

So looks like the three getting bumped up are Waconia, New Prague and Two Rivers....

from here: https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 4-2025.pdf

and they may get moved down/petition down with all the schools who opt up that are well below the cut off (STA, GR, BSM, CDH, TG, HM, AHA, Holy Family, Blake, Roseau)

[ClassAGuy]

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 4-2025.pdf

here are enrollments for 2023/2024 2024/2025.

Waconia 1289 (AA unless petition down)
NF 1102 (A)
SR 1197 (A)
Kennedy 1182 (A)
NP 1255 (AA)
2R 1202 (AA)
Alex 1168 (A)

Where did you find the new numbers? Great information Thanks

Holy Smokes NFLD went from 1281 to 1102 They lost a ton of kids or maybe new free and reduced numbers.

So looks like the three getting bumped up are Waconia, New Prague and Two Rivers....

from here: https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 4-2025.pdf

and they may get moved down/petition down with all the schools who opt up that are well below the cut off (STA, GR, BSM, CDH, TG, HM, AHA, Holy Family, Blake, Roseau)

Thank you and agree lots of moving parts. Waconia & New Prague seem AA for sure growing communities and now well above the number I could see Two Rivers do to their demographics and only being a little over get granted approval to stay down

Where did you do on the website to get the updated pdf's when I go I am still seeing data for from the last time in 2021-22 & 2022-23

[ClassAGuy]

From Youth Hockey Hub Twitter
BHS

YHH hearing the following information on section realignment for next year.

New Prague and Northfield to 1AA
Waconia to 2AA
Two Rivers to 3AA
Cambridge to 7AA

Teams petitioned to go from AA to A but denied:

Armstrong/Cooper, B-ville/AV, Osseo, St. Cloud

Things are going to be interesting some movement Class A Sections are gonna need to be fixed 4A right now only has 6 teams curious to see some more major movement than normal in a 2 year cycle

[The51]

From Youth Hockey Hub Twitter
BHS

YHH hearing the following information on section realignment for next year.

New Prague and Northfield to 1AA
Waconia to 2AA
Two Rivers to 3AA
Cambridge to 7AA

Teams petitioned to go from AA to A but denied:

Armstrong/Cooper, B-ville/AV, Osseo, St. Cloud

Things are going to be interesting some movement Class A Sections are gonna need to be fixed 4A right now only has 6 teams curious to see some more major movement than normal in a 2 year cycle

I'm sure it's been stated but is there official release date

[ClassAGuy]

From Youth Hockey Hub Twitter
BHS

YHH hearing the following information on section realignment for next year.

New Prague and Northfield to 1AA
Waconia to 2AA
Two Rivers to 3AA
Cambridge to 7AA

Teams petitioned to go from AA to A but denied:

Armstrong/Cooper, B-ville/AV, Osseo, St. Cloud

Things are going to be interesting some movement Class A Sections are gonna need to be fixed 4A right now only has 6 teams curious to see some more major movement than normal in a 2 year cycle

I'm sure it's been stated but is there official release date

Looking at the Timeline PDF from the MSHSL it appears the release will be on Thursday April 6th

https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 4-2025.pdf

[xy]

Based on about as good a source as it's possible to have it's essentially certain that Two Rivers is moving to the highest level in everything except football and basketball (and I'm not sure how basketball is being excepted from that). The obvious move, really, when you look at their past hockey season and Mahtomedi's, is that Mahtomedi should be the one in class A . . . .

[The51]

Based on about as good a source as it's possible to have it's essentially certain that Two Rivers is moving to the highest level in everything except football and basketball (and I'm not sure how basketball is being excepted from that). The obvious move, really, when you look at their past hockey season and Mahtomedi's, is that Mahtomedi should be the one in class A . . . .

This isn't a groundbreaking statement, but the MSHSL really needs a better way to split teams up than school enrollment

[elliott70]

Based on about as good a source as it's possible to have it's essentially certain that Two Rivers is moving to the highest level in everything except football and basketball (and I'm not sure how basketball is being excepted from that). The obvious move, really, when you look at their past hockey season and Mahtomedi's, is that Mahtomedi should be the one in class A . . . .

This isn't a groundbreaking statement, but the MSHSL really needs a better way to split teams up than school enrollment

They tried something in the 90's - it did not work.

[The51]

Based on about as good a source as it's possible to have it's essentially certain that Two Rivers is moving to the highest level in everything except football and basketball (and I'm not sure how basketball is being excepted from that). The obvious move, really, when you look at their past hockey season and Mahtomedi's, is that Mahtomedi should be the one in class A . . . .

This isn't a groundbreaking statement, but the MSHSL really needs a better way to split teams up than school enrollment

They tried something in the 90's - it did not work.

Wasn't that their first attempt at splitting up into different levels? I have to imagine with almost 30 years of information and learning now they could make a better attempt today than that one

[ndirishfighting]

What would happen if they took the sections and made them similar to districts in youth hockey? Or is that not possible?

[xy]

Tier I and Tier II didn't work for hockey when two classes started, and no one should think this is simple. But there simply has to be a way to factor in a school's realistic competitive expectations, given their demographics, history, $, etc., and not go simply by size. The unfortunate fact is that Two Rivers has essentially no realistic chance to compete in any meaningful way in the highest class in almost all sports, a situation I don't think is fair to the kids there. A system that relegates them to that status, but lets Mahtomedi and St Thomas Academy stay a class below them for most sports, is profoundly broken.

[ClassAGuy]

Tier I and Tier II didn't work for hockey when two classes started, and no one should think this is simple. But there simply has to be a way to factor in a school's realistic competitive expectations, given their demographics, history, $, etc., and not go simply by size. The unfortunate fact is that Two Rivers has essentially no realistic chance to compete in any meaningful way in the highest class in almost all sports, a situation I don't think is fair to the kids there. A system that relegates them to that status, but lets Mahtomedi and St Thomas Academy stay a class below them for most sports, is profoundly broken.

Excellent point made xy! Tier I and Tier II did fail but the system now does also. Look at Northfield who is now forced to decided to drop their co-opt with Randolph and 3 players lose a place to play hockey or go AA due to the enrollments stuff.

It's hard I think MPLS is good in Class A yet MSHSL allows that but makes Two Rivers, Armstrong/Cooper, Tartan to name a few with similar demographics stay AA.

They are now bumping up Cambridge/Isanti but letting Becker/Big Lake stay down?

Its just hard when they seem to make some good choices again BBL and MPLS I have no issue with being A but then denying others with the same circumstances... It's hard to follow.

The point made by xy above is excellent its crazy how in multiple sports not just hockey its the same schools finding success within the system. I don't have better answer but I do think a creating groups within each sport with actually knowledge would help to decide who is up and down not the body that does... Many of the people who denied Two Rivers etc have no real understanding of the hockey landscape in Minnesota... Again a group for each sport leaders to come in and help may be a right step or may lead to more confusion....

[elliott70]

You don’t want tier 1 - tier2 but you are asking for it.

What they should do is divide the state geographically into 8 sections.
Within each section the 8 largest schools are AA.
If a team wins (or similar criteria) the A section they move up and the bottom (3) teams draw for moving down.

Reevaluate after a period of time.

[Cookster]

I wish they would treat Private/Charter Schools similar to how they do it in Georgia. Every Private School has a multiplier ( was 2x, now I beleive it is 1.5. So if Mahtomedi's numbers are 1150, they would bump up to 1725, and they would move up to AA without a choice

[elliott70]

Mahtomedi is private?
Or charter?