MN Lakers 14U to Nationals

[elliott70]

Elliott, is this fall league something that has had good buy-in from Minnesota kids and parents? Do pretty much all the top kids participate or is it more hit or miss?

More so thinking of the 14,15,16 ages

Pretty much get the top
Kids.

[The51]

Elliott, is this fall league something that has had good buy-in from Minnesota kids and parents? Do pretty much all the top kids participate or is it more hit or miss?

More so thinking of the 14,15,16 ages

Pretty much get the top
Kids.

That’s good, was curious cause I saw the blades were also pretty good but since they’re not in that league, I assume MN hockey doesn’t let them compete for the nationals spot

[arcticpurple]

Elliott, is this fall league something that has had good buy-in from Minnesota kids and parents? Do pretty much all the top kids participate or is it more hit or miss?

More so thinking of the 14,15,16 ages

Pretty much get the top
Kids.

Very debatable..,I’d say the Blue Ox (northern districts) get the top kids. It’s pretty diluted in the southern districts. MN hockey needs to lighten up and embrace the competition. HS and bantam coach recommendation requirement is ripe of politics.

[The51]

Elliott, is this fall league something that has had good buy-in from Minnesota kids and parents? Do pretty much all the top kids participate or is it more hit or miss?

More so thinking of the 14,15,16 ages

Pretty much get the top
Kids.

Very debatable..,I’d say the Blue Ox (northern districts) get the top kids. It’s pretty diluted in the southern districts. MN hockey needs to lighten up and embrace the competition. HS and bantam coach recommendation requirement is ripe of politics.

Are you saying that because MN doesn’t allow any team to qualify for the district tournament unless it’s a team from their league

[InThePipes]

Elliott, is this fall league something that has had good buy-in from Minnesota kids and parents? Do pretty much all the top kids participate or is it more hit or miss?

More so thinking of the 14,15,16 ages

Pretty much get the top
Kids.

Very debatable..,I’d say the Blue Ox (northern districts) get the top kids. It’s pretty diluted in the southern districts. MN hockey needs to lighten up and embrace the competition. HS and bantam coach recommendation requirement is ripe of politics.

There is no such nomination process for Tier 1 through MN Hockey, it's an open tryout with the following criteria:

To be eligible for tryouts, players should have played on an A/AA team during the 2022-23 season. If your association did not field an A/AA team, B players are eligible to tryout.

[The51]

Pretty much get the top
Kids.

Very debatable..,I’d say the Blue Ox (northern districts) get the top kids. It’s pretty diluted in the southern districts. MN hockey needs to lighten up and embrace the competition. HS and bantam coach recommendation requirement is ripe of politics.

There is no such nomination process for Tier 1 through MN Hockey, it's an open tryout with the following criteria:

To be eligible for tryouts, players should have played on an A/AA team during the 2022-23 season. If your association did not field an A/AA team, B players are eligible to tryout.

[The51]

Pretty much get the top
Kids.

Very debatable..,I’d say the Blue Ox (northern districts) get the top kids. It’s pretty diluted in the southern districts. MN hockey needs to lighten up and embrace the competition. HS and bantam coach recommendation requirement is ripe of politics.

Are you saying that because MN doesn’t allow any team to qualify for the district tournament unless it’s a team from their league

Elliott, you seem to be the resident expert on the topic, is this how MN handles their district tournament for nationals?

[elliott70]

Very debatable..,I’d say the Blue Ox (northern districts) get the top kids. It’s pretty diluted in the southern districts. MN hockey needs to lighten up and embrace the competition. HS and bantam coach recommendation requirement is ripe of politics.

Are you saying that because MN doesn’t allow any team to qualify for the district tournament unless it’s a team from their league

Elliott, you seem to be the resident expert on the topic, is this how MN handles their district tournament for nationals?

Yes
It was a lengthy discussion in committee and at the BOD meeting.
Bottom line was the problems with the ‘for profit’ (in a general sense) organizations and their not having a desire to completely follow MN Hockey rules and guidelines it was decided to maintain it under tight control.

[elliott70]

‘Expert’
Not particularly in this area but I am in my 23 year on the MN board.

[The51]

Are you saying that because MN doesn’t allow any team to qualify for the district tournament unless it’s a team from their league

Elliott, you seem to be the resident expert on the topic, is this how MN handles their district tournament for nationals?

Yes
It was a lengthy discussion in committee and at the BOD meeting.
Bottom line was the problems with the ‘for profit’ (in a general sense) organizations and their not having a desire to completely follow MN Hockey rules and guidelines it was decided to maintain it under tight control.

I see, thanks for the info! So then teams like the Blades and Blue Army etc, are they not considered Tier 1? Or how does their registration work

[elliott70]

I am not sure if they are registered with USAH.

[InThePipes]

I am not sure if they are registered with USAH.

I don't think so

[arcticpurple]

Pretty much get the top
Kids.

Very debatable..,I’d say the Blue Ox (northern districts) get the top kids. It’s pretty diluted in the southern districts. MN hockey needs to lighten up and embrace the competition. HS and bantam coach recommendation requirement is ripe of politics.

There is no such nomination process for Tier 1 through MN Hockey, it's an open tryout with the following criteria:

To be eligible for tryouts, players should have played on an A/AA team during the 2022-23 season. If your association did not field an A/AA team, B players are eligible to tryout.

You're absolutely right...my bad. It's the Spring HP tryout process that requires coaches recommendation.

[arcticpurple]

Elliott, you seem to be the resident expert on the topic, is this how MN handles their district tournament for nationals?

Yes
It was a lengthy discussion in committee and at the BOD meeting.
Bottom line was the problems with the ‘for profit’ (in a general sense) organizations and their not having a desire to completely follow MN Hockey rules and guidelines it was decided to maintain it under tight control.

I see, thanks for the info! So then teams like the Blades and Blue Army etc, are they not considered Tier 1? Or how does their registration work

They are registered with USA Hockey but are considered non-national bound teams, similar to Northstar Christian Academy in Alexandria. All I can say is you get what you pay for. The lack of organization and the "I'm just a volunteer" excuse/attitude for some of the district teams has created a demand for competitive non-national bound teams.

[The51]

Yes
It was a lengthy discussion in committee and at the BOD meeting.
Bottom line was the problems with the ‘for profit’ (in a general sense) organizations and their not having a desire to completely follow MN Hockey rules and guidelines it was decided to maintain it under tight control.

I see, thanks for the info! So then teams like the Blades and Blue Army etc, are they not considered Tier 1? Or how does their registration work

They are registered with USA Hockey but are considered non-national bound teams, similar to Northstar Christian Academy in Alexandria. All I can say is you get what you pay for. The lack of organization and the "I'm just a volunteer" excuse/attitude for some of the district teams has created a demand for competitive non-national bound teams.

So it sounds like MN Hockey's desire to have a monopoly on Tier 1 backfired in multiple ways.

They don't get the best kids because the best kids would rather play for the Blades and teams like them that are more competitive and then because of that they also don't send competitive teams to Nationals because they don't let anyone compete who aren't themselves.

[elliott70]

I see, thanks for the info! So then teams like the Blades and Blue Army etc, are they not considered Tier 1? Or how does their registration work

They are registered with USA Hockey but are considered non-national bound teams, similar to Northstar Christian Academy in Alexandria. All I can say is you get what you pay for. The lack of organization and the "I'm just a volunteer" excuse/attitude for some of the district teams has created a demand for competitive non-national bound teams.

So it sounds like MN Hockey's desire to have a monopoly on Tier 1 backfired in multiple ways.

They don't get the best kids because the best kids would rather play for the Blades and teams like them that are more competitive and then because of that they also don't send competitive teams to Nationals because they don't let anyone compete who aren't themselves.

Well, they do not have a monopoly as SSM also competes and has shown a willingness to follow the rules.
Others have shown no such desire because it does not fit their model. That's fine - it all falls into your personal viewpoint.
And yes, some players use different models but to say the best kids do not play for MN H district teams is not totally true.
Adn the fact that you (and others) are concerned with competitive teams versus development displays the difference in philosophy.

[The51]

They are registered with USA Hockey but are considered non-national bound teams, similar to Northstar Christian Academy in Alexandria. All I can say is you get what you pay for. The lack of organization and the "I'm just a volunteer" excuse/attitude for some of the district teams has created a demand for competitive non-national bound teams.

So it sounds like MN Hockey's desire to have a monopoly on Tier 1 backfired in multiple ways.

They don't get the best kids because the best kids would rather play for the Blades and teams like them that are more competitive and then because of that they also don't send competitive teams to Nationals because they don't let anyone compete who aren't themselves.

Well, they do not have a monopoly as SSM also competes and has shown a willingness to follow the rules.
Others have shown no such desire because it does not fit their model. That's fine - it all falls into your personal viewpoint.
And yes, some players use different models but to say the best kids do not play for MN H district teams is not totally true.
Adn the fact that you (and others) are concerned with competitive teams versus development displays the difference in philosophy.

I'm just trying to figure out everything I missed in my time out of the state. When I left in 2009 this was non-existent and now that I've been back for a few years this is all new info to me.

I guess what are a few examples of the rules that you are talking about that others aren't willing to follow?

[elliott70]

My comments are not necessarily directed at you but to all that have closed minds based on something personal.

[elliott70]

And everyone or those with a concern for youth hockey in Minnesota,
there was a great deal of thought, discussion and sharing that went into the previous decisions that have got us to this point.

And there continues to be.

[The51]

My comments are not necessarily directed at you but to all that have closed minds based on something personal.

Yes of course, no hard feelings at all I'm truly just trying to learn so I appreciate your responses, especially with your role in MN Hockey.

I guess my two questions now would be,
a) what are a few examples of those rules teams like the Blades don't want to follow?
and
b) if they can still exist but just can't compete for nationals, what/how much is accomplished by not letting them compete for nationals?

[elliott70]

My comments are not necessarily directed at you but to all that have closed minds based on something personal.

Yes of course, no hard feelings at all I'm truly just trying to learn so I appreciate your responses, especially with your role in MN Hockey.

I guess my two questions now would be,
a) what are a few examples of those rules teams like the Blades don't want to follow?
and
b) if they can still exist but just can't compete for nationals, what/how much is accomplished by not letting them compete for nationals?

I am not really qualified to answer those questions as I do not serve on the Hockey Op committee or as a USAH rep.

[HockeyTalk2020]

They are registered with USA Hockey but are considered non-national bound teams, similar to Northstar Christian Academy in Alexandria. All I can say is you get what you pay for. The lack of organization and the "I'm just a volunteer" excuse/attitude for some of the district teams has created a demand for competitive non-national bound teams.

So it sounds like MN Hockey's desire to have a monopoly on Tier 1 backfired in multiple ways.

They don't get the best kids because the best kids would rather play for the Blades and teams like them that are more competitive and then because of that they also don't send competitive teams to Nationals because they don't let anyone compete who aren't themselves.

Well, they do not have a monopoly as SSM also competes and has shown a willingness to follow the rules.
Others have shown no such desire because it does not fit their model. That's fine - it all falls into your personal viewpoint.
And yes, some players use different models but to say the best kids do not play for MN H district teams is not totally true.
Adn the fact that you (and others) are concerned with competitive teams versus development displays the difference in philosophy.

Define development. Easy buzzword to say when suggesting non mn tier1 teams are not about development. Mn fall tier 1 teams has its place. It offers more spots for kids to get better.

But the reality is 98% of the better players do not do Mn hockey tier 1 because of its lesser skill. Please note that there will be many players in Mn fall tier 1 who are “not as good” grow, mature, and become better players down the road as the “better” kids playing for higher profile programs i.e. Blades.

It is obvious mnhockey is desperately trying to squeeze u14 age kids into mn Fall tier 1 by moving the eligibility date from sept 30th to now sept 1. This is too bad because they are going out of their way to take opportunities away for more kids to get better. It seems hypocritical to the charter of mn hockey by limiting kids opportunities for the sole purpose of pushing kids to their funnel.

[InThePipes]

It is obvious mnhockey is desperately trying to squeeze u14 age kids into mn Fall tier 1 by moving the eligibility date from sept 30th to now sept 1. This is too bad because they are going out of their way to take opportunities away for more kids to get better. It seems hypocritical to the charter of mn hockey by limiting kids opportunities for the sole purpose of pushing kids to their funnel.

So by doing this, any MN player who intends to play Bantams in the coming season can only be rostered on a MN Tier 1 team after September 1st, is that correct? The result is then that the Blades, Blue Army, etc. essentially need to stop playing games at the end of August?

[skatez]

Its interesting that Minnesota Hockey likes to characterize any non-Minnesota Hockey program as "for profit".

Look at the cost associated with playing HP in the spring.

$100 tryout (two days on ice)
$175 Phase 2 (6-7 days on ice)
$250 Spring Festival (one weekend)
$700 State camp (one week)

$1,225 to advance to a camp that takes the top 100 players in a birth year. That's a lot of money coming into Minnesota Hockey.

Minnesota Hockey may not be "for profit", but this program is, and everyone knows it. This program helps fund lots of paid positions within districts and Minnesota Hockey, coaches are paid just like they are in a AAA program. Hiding behind the "Blades won't follow the rules" isn't true at all. The Blades would definitely follow the rules but if the Blades were allowed to play in the National Tournament no one would play in the HP league and it would be the beginning of the end for association hockey. Keeping the Blades and others out is purely done out of self-preservation. To say otherwise is laughable.

[elliott70]

Its interesting that Minnesota Hockey likes to characterize any non-Minnesota Hockey program as "for profit".

Look at the cost associated with playing HP in the spring.

$100 tryout (two days on ice)
$175 Phase 2 (6-7 days on ice)
$250 Spring Festival (one weekend)
$700 State camp (one week)

$1,225 to advance to a camp that takes the top 100 players in a birth year. That's a lot of money coming into Minnesota Hockey.

Minnesota Hockey may not be "for profit", but this program is, and everyone knows it. This program helps fund lots of paid positions within districts and Minnesota Hockey, coaches are paid just like they are in a AAA program. Hiding behind the "Blades won't follow the rules" isn't true at all. The Blades would definitely follow the rules but if the Blades were allowed to play in the National Tournament no one would play in the HP league and it would be the beginning of the end for association hockey. Keeping the Blades and others out is purely done out of self-preservation. To say otherwise is laughable.

I am not trying to tell you that the MH program is perfect but when you do not have all the information you cannot argue intelligently.
Yes, MN Hockey is trying to preserve community-based association hockey.
Arguing to dismantle it is insane.
It is what makes Minnesota the State of Hockey.