Tonka - New Prague

[Eagles93]

I know the girls forum is pretty much dead but time for the annual "what the heck are we doing, MSHSL??" post. Tonka beats New Prague 22-0 tonight. Shots 100-2, not a typo. What good came of this game? I'm sure some will blame Tonka for not taking their foot off the gas, maybe they didn't, I didn't see it. Tonka did score 6 goals on 20 shots in the 3rd. Did New Prague have a fun bus ride home? Is Tonka proud? No, of course, but I don't blame either team. Games like these happen every year.

The MSHSL needs to do something about the disparity in girls hockey when it comes to playoffs. I have suggestions, limit class AA to 36-48 teams would be an easy one, but we all know the MSHSL never thinks outside the box.

[Cookster]

sadly, the game has to be played. But you are correct, the girls game is somewhat like women college basketball was 10-15 years ago, with only a few teams capable of making state.

At some point maybe you play your forwards on D, or let the goalie skate out for a period. Or you work on angles, but to take 20 shots in the period when already up 14-0 and haven't given up a shot seems a little excessive. Yes, only 1 goal was scored by the first line, but mix it up. It is hard for Tonka, when I believe they play with only 3 lines, and have 9 (mainly) D.

My guess is that when the girls got close to 100, they were aiming for that goal, because it is impressive. What is not impressive is the coach that allows this.

[Sparlimb]

HM had a couple games on the boys side where it was name your score as well. Lechner decided in one game to play running time both the 2nd and 3rd, they didn't bother to re-surface and the 1st line didn't play those last two periods either. Hoping Tonka did something like...

[Eagles93]

sadly, the game has to be played.

But why?

Shots in other recent "playoff" games:
Farmington 76, South Central 4
Lakeville South 59, Rochester Century/JM 11
Andover 58, Anoka 7
Hill-Murray 58, St Paul/Two Rivers 5
Holy Family 58, Waconia 7
Andover 57, Forest Lake 6 (Semi-final game, at least the Forest Lake goalie stood on her head for an exciting game)

There are 62 teams in AA and 45 in A this season. The MSHSL guidelines (https://www.mshsl.org/sites/default/fil ... 6-2027.pdf) call for the largest 64 enrollments (inc. opt ups) in AA, with the rest in A. This is fairly consistent across most sports, which probably works fine because there are more than 128 teams in most sports. Girls hockey will never have 128 teams (there are less and less every year), so why draw the line at 64? Boys tennis does the lowest 64 enrollments in A and the rest in AA, seems like this would work perfect for girls hockey.

[headsupsticksdown]

Everybody knows Tonka’s HC is let’s just say “controversial”. Let’s not knock the girls. It’s hard to tell kids to give maximum effort, but only in certain situations. That’s not on the kids.

At least this is sections. I’ve seen other countries where schools would make the big tourney only to be matched by a 1 seed and get smoked 50+ goals to nothing. One loss and out. After all the hype, funds, etc. to get ripped in a one and done. You can’t tell me it’s good for the kids.

But I also don’t have a solution for it either.

[Lace'emUp]

I know the girls forum is pretty much dead but time for the annual "what the heck are we doing, MSHSL??" post. Tonka beats New Prague 22-0 tonight. Shots 100-2, not a typo. What good came of this game? I'm sure some will blame Tonka for not taking their foot off the gas, maybe they didn't, I didn't see it. Tonka did score 6 goals on 20 shots in the 3rd. Did New Prague have a fun bus ride home? Is Tonka proud? No, of course, but I don't blame either team. Games like these happen every year.

The MSHSL needs to do something about the disparity in girls hockey when it comes to playoffs. I have suggestions, limit class AA to 36-48 teams would be an easy one, but we all know the MSHSL never thinks outside the box.

I agree with 36-48... more on the 36 side. The key, as you stated, is "thinking outside the box". You have schools like Tonka with 3348 students playing a school with 1255 (barely enough for AA). Hard for small schools to compete vs big schools unless you're private or in a co-op like Centennial/SLP which has 3382 combined (biggest in the state). Either think outside the box or start forming more co-ops so we don't have games like this.

[jg2112]

Good to see a post about this.

My opinion is that there shouldn't be "A" and "AA" in girls hockey. Have one division but play for two titles. Take the top 32 teams based on some computer system (what's the one we had around here) and put them in the MSHSL tourney. Then have the rest play for the equivalent of the NIT.

This not only puts the best against the best and eliminates these wastes of time during the Section playoffs, but it also avoids the teams that sandbag at the A level each year.

[Lace'emUp]

Good to see a post about this.

My opinion is that there shouldn't be "A" and "AA" in girls hockey. Have one division but play for two titles. Take the top 32 teams based on some computer system (what's the one we had around here) and put them in the MSHSL tourney. Then have the rest play for the equivalent of the NIT.

This not only puts the best against the best and eliminates these wastes of time during the Section playoffs, but it also avoids the teams that sandbag at the A level each year.

I like this idea too. Even if it's for a trial 2-year period. Anything is better than what they have in place right now. If we go with the computer top 32, it would be Tonka vs Blake in round one. We know who would win, but it would be far more competitive (and not embarrassing to the sport).
https://www.minnesota-scores.net/girls- ... 25/overall

[Slap Shot]

fwiw 13 different Tonka players scored at least 1 goal, 17 of 18 skaters that saw ice time had a point, and 15 of them had at least two points.

Looking at their season stats Hochbaum had 4 point which were her first points for the entire season. Keepman had 2 points with only 2 points going into the game, Rogers had 1 point to add to her previous 3, Larson had 3 in the game but only 8 coming into it, etc.

Sounds to me like they ran through their lines.

And don't they do running time in the 3rd when a team is up by 7?

[Slap Shot]

dupe

[CrimsonCakeEater]

Good to see a post about this.

My opinion is that there shouldn't be "A" and "AA" in girls hockey. Have one division but play for two titles. Take the top 32 teams based on some computer system (what's the one we had around here) and put them in the MSHSL tourney. Then have the rest play for the equivalent of the NIT.

This not only puts the best against the best and eliminates these wastes of time during the Section playoffs, but it also avoids the teams that sandbag at the A level each year.

They did this with the boys in the 90s and ditched it ASAP because it sucked then and it would suck now too. Just shrink AA to 48. Or don’t, someone is always going to be the worst team.

[Eagles93]

Agree that Tier I/Tier II is not the solution, that was terrible on the boy's side. But at least MSHSL thought outside the box on that one, albeit in a lazy way.

As I mentioned above, first they need to factor the number of teams in girls hockey. Here are the number of teams in the past several years:
2006-07: 124
2013-14: 120
2017-18: 117
2020-21: 114
2022-23: 111
2023-24: 110
2024-25: 107

Fairly steep decline and obviously trending down. Instead of putting the largest 64 enrollments out of 107 (or likely less in the future) in AA, even doing 50% AA/50% A would make more sense. This would obviously mean less teams in each AA section, which means no more 1v8 games which are almost all embarrassingly lopsided games. Instead you get mostly 3v6 and 4v5 first round games with byes for top 1-2 seeds (like 6AA is now.)

This is an easy solution that isn't radical or frankly even outside the box.

[InThePipes]

Good to see a post about this.

My opinion is that there shouldn't be "A" and "AA" in girls hockey. Have one division but play for two titles. Take the top 32 teams based on some computer system (what's the one we had around here) and put them in the MSHSL tourney. Then have the rest play for the equivalent of the NIT.

This not only puts the best against the best and eliminates these wastes of time during the Section playoffs, but it also avoids the teams that sandbag at the A level each year.

They did this with the boys in the 90s and ditched it ASAP because it sucked then and it would suck now too. Just shrink AA to 48. Or don’t, someone is always going to be the worst team.

Before my time, what were the main points that made suck?

[Well Driller]

Give me a break. It's an unsportsmanlike move and has become commonplace for Minnetonka and this coaching staff in particular to beat down weaker opponents.

Other coaches and programs take a very different approach with games of this nature, believing it's an opportunity to teach more important life lessons, rather than notching your 1st goal as a varsity player in a 22-0 game.

Stop turning poor character and leadership into an MSHSL issue.

[Eagles93]

Give me a break. It's an unsportsmanlike move and has become commonplace for Minnetonka and this coaching staff in particular to beat down weaker opponents.

Other coaches and programs take a very different approach with games of this nature, believing it's an opportunity to teach more important life lessons, rather than notching your 1st goal as a varsity player in a 22-0 game.

Stop turning poor character and leadership into an MSHSL issue.

Two things can be true at once. Agree the Tonka coaching staff is, someone above said "controversial" to put it politely, and I don't blame the Tonka girls. But what are they supposed to do? Not dress the top line for the game? Start a JV goalie? Patronizing the other team by playing keep away during running time is good for who?

"Life lesson"? In a section playoff game?

One more absurd point about this game - youth teams this season:
New Prague: 10U (1), 12U (1), 15U (0)
Tonka: 10U (4), 12U (4), 15U (3)

(And shout out to Tonka losing last night in the section final. Has any other coaching staff done so little with so much talent?)

The Tonka - New Prague game aside, I listed a few other examples from just this year. This happens every year. To say it's not an MSHSL issue is silly.

[CrimsonCakeEater]

Good to see a post about this.

My opinion is that there shouldn't be "A" and "AA" in girls hockey. Have one division but play for two titles. Take the top 32 teams based on some computer system (what's the one we had around here) and put them in the MSHSL tourney. Then have the rest play for the equivalent of the NIT.

This not only puts the best against the best and eliminates these wastes of time during the Section playoffs, but it also avoids the teams that sandbag at the A level each year.

They did this with the boys in the 90s and ditched it ASAP because it sucked then and it would suck now too. Just shrink AA to 48. Or don’t, someone is always going to be the worst team.

Before my time, what were the main points that made suck?

Also before my time but it basically turned the Tier II tournament (Class A equivalent) into the NIT but for high school hockey since it was just all the teams that weren’t good enough to compete for the actual championship. In year one a 3-win Rosemount team made the state championship, which obviously was not the intent of a two class system. The big school/small school model is much better because it makes the lower tier championship feel legitimate and not like a pity trophy. By definition the Tier II champ was the 65th best team in the state whereas most years the Class A champ is a top 10 or top 5 team in the state according to Pagestat. 2016 Hermantown was even #1!

[InThePipes]

They did this with the boys in the 90s and ditched it ASAP because it sucked then and it would suck now too. Just shrink AA to 48. Or don’t, someone is always going to be the worst team.

Before my time, what were the main points that made suck?

Also before my time but it basically turned the Tier II tournament (Class A equivalent) into the NIT but for high school hockey since it was just all the teams that weren’t good enough to compete for the actual championship. In year one a 3-win Rosemount team made the state championship, which obviously was not the intent of a two class system. The big school/small school model is much better because it makes the lower tier championship feel legitimate and not like a pity trophy. By definition the Tier II champ was the 65th best team in the state whereas most years the Class A champ is a top 10 or top 5 team in the state according to Pagestat. 2016 Hermantown was even #1!

Got it, makes sense, thanks.