Should State Tourney be seeded as has been discussed...

[xk1]

Girls coaches vote against seeding, for now<br>The Minnesota Girls' Hockey Coaches Association held its annual state tournament meeting on Saturday and voted 26-23 against a proposal to seed the state field. Pairings for the Class 2A and 1A tournaments are based on a predetermined rotation.<br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.startribune.com/526/story/27 ... <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... xk1>xk1</A> at: 2/25/06 10:23 pm<br></i>

[ghshockeyfan]

How close was it last time? I know this was voted on in the fall. Did it get any closer this time? I wasn't able to make the meeting obviously...<br><br>One thing that keeps getting missed too is that coaches don't need to be present at a seeding meeting to seed teams. This could be done via fax/email/conference call/etc. This is the 2000's not 1800's!!! <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 2/25/06 10:24 pm<br></i>

[JJhockeySS]

Usually voted on during spring meeting. I wasn't at last years spring meeting, but two years ago, there were no votes for seeding, so we are up to about 48% in two years.<br><br>One important point came from the out-state coaches. They feel that seeding will always put them in a low seed. There are many constraints for their teams to play a tough SOS. Like quality opponents in area, to play quality opponents they have to travel, because teams won't come to play them on a regular basis.<br><br>The Moorhead coach stated that for next year 16 of his 25 games will be on the road, with the closest trip being 125 miles. You can see how that will wear on a team, school, and budget.<br><br>I'm not sure what the correct answer is, I think it is about doing what is best for the girls. The argument that I hear most for seeding the State tournament is to get the best teams a chance to play in the championship, and create interest in girls hockey by showcasing our best talent at the tournament. If that is the case than I think the problem starts prior to the State tournament, and we need to look at our Section tournaments, and making sure the top 8 teams in the state have an equal chance of making the tournament. I would think that is a more pressing issue if we truly want to display our best talent.<br><br>The other down side to seeding the state tourney, is that many coaches scout section finals games in preparation for the state tourney opening round. That wouldn't be possible if the tourney wasn't seeded.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[elliott70]

Ah, no, no & no.<br>Proof.<br>Who waould be the 1 & 2 this year in AA.<br><br>I heard Stillwater and EP should ahve met inthe finals and not the QF's.<br><br>That would have been a classic (insert sarcasm<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ).<br><br>There is NO WAY anyone on this board nor any computer nor any group of coaches etc....will tell you what games will be classic.<br><br>And that is what makes it great. Two tough teams in the semis. The easy game for the championship and everyone is pulling for the underdog. And when the underdog wins - again a classic (insert no sarcasm here <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :D --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> ).<br><br>Every other state does it? MN is behind the times?<br>The constitution was written over 200 years ago. Just because something is old does not make it wrong.<br><br>Set the draws well in advance and you get what you get.<br><br>It seems more and more the girls side of this is proving they do not know what makes hockey so great in MN and that is tradition. Let's change things to be PC, let's change things because the boys do it that way.<br><br>Once you start changing things because the grass is greener or this is "more better", without thought as to why something has worked, you start walking a thin line. And the fall can be dangerous.<br><br>Other states, give me a break. Boys high school tournament is better than the rest. Why would you not follow that model.<br><br>Oh, yes, like the color commentators said, there is a need to get the other good metro teams into the state tournament. <p></p><i></i>

[ghshockeyfan]

Understandable on the Outstate coaches concerns.<br><br>I would love to see a seeded section setup where the best team in AA got to see the worst in AA first round, but I know it won't happen. It would take a lot of travel and "regionals" that all teams would have to travel to neutral sites the weekend before state and play 3 games Thur-Fri-Sat I suppose. Just won't happen, I know, I know...<br><br>I agree about the scouting, but some coaches have final games at the same time and subsequewntly can't scout the other anyway... Maybe tapes should be made available to section champions of the other championship games - but tape doesn't always do the best job for scouting purposes unfortunately based on quality, angles, etc.<br><br>I believe the boys coaches are in favor of this - but I won't advocate for this based on "the boys have/want/do it" alone!<br><br>Maybe we should mock seed next season and see if the N/S/Outstate would really get shafted just to see what would change... <p></p><i></i>

[SEhockeyDAD]

First, 2 reasons for not seeding:<br>Coon Rapids 3, Roseville 1<br>Rochester Mayo/Lourdes 2, Holy Angels 1<br><br>I would submit that this years tournament matchups worked out as well as it could. Which were the teams best suited to compete with Eden Prairie? Cloquet gave them the best game, Stillwater was undeniably too good not to get a chance and since Coon Rapids beat Roseville, they would be the 3rd choice. Since all 3 teams got a shot at EP at state, I'd say yes, things worked out very well. If they were seeded, the first game would have been EP pasting Moorhead, a game I'm glad I didn't see and either Stillwater or C-E-C would have been denied a shot at EP.<br><br>Here's another problem I have with seeding, but its a little slippery. After all was done, we saw Rochester M/L beat #12 Holy Angels by a goal in a very close game that could have gone either way. During the year, Roch M/L also lost by one goal in very close games that could have gone either way to #15 Hibbing and #18 Blake. When teams are so evenly matched but win or lose by a single goal, how do you formulate "could have gone either way" into the equation? And how do those who seed teams know a team could be as good as #12 when the stats show they're #24? And how would they know that Coon 'Rapids should have been seeded 3rd or 4th? If it had been seeded by rankings, CR would likely have ended up in the consolation instead of the winners bracket. <br><br>In hindsight, the final games should have been:<br>Championship; EP vs. C-E-C<br>3rd place; Stillwater vs. CR<br>Consolation; Roseville vs. Roch M/L (I wish this game had happened, and I bet Stillwater does, too.)<br>But this is indeed hindsight, and who would have known. But that's my point. When you decide to seed teams, how do you really know? <br> <p></p><i></i>

[ghshockeyfan]

My quick thoughts...<br><br>One side of the bracket was weaker than the other this year in AA. I think most would agree with this. EP shouldn't have had to beat the three top teams they did. That's the point of seeding in general.<br><br>Things may have worked out, but if you're Stillwater, don't you think that you should have had a shot at the title game as what many would agree was the 2nd best team in the tourney? I don't think any other team in the state is in the same league with EP this past year. Much as was the case with SSP in past years, etc.<br><br>I believe that I posted the hypothetical KRACH seedings earlier, but the point was that this gave the best shot at having teams seeded 1 & 2 face off for the championship, teams 3 & 4 for 3rd place, 5 & 6 for consolation, and 7 & 8 2 and out. <p></p><i></i>