Minnesota Hockey Advanced 15 Summer Development Camp

Artificial Ice · Post by **Artificial Ice** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:18 pm

This is at Mankato State. Affiliated through USA Hockey. Anyone know anything about this? Has anyone attended?

JJhockeySS · Post by **JJhockeySS** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:25 pm

From what I heard last year it was a well run camp. With lots of DI coaches involved in the week long camp. It sounds like it is a good oppurtunity if a player is selected to participate.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:46 pm

*USA/MN Hockey Girl's Advanced 15 Summer Festival (1991 birth year only): <a href="http://www.minnesotahockey.org/assorted ...  Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 3/20/06 9:46 pm

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:47 am

91's only and by invitation only. That's a pretty specific group they're getting. Why would a camp target a small group of young players? EDIT; I see now online that the same is offered for 90's and 89's. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyDAD</A> at: 3/21/06 10:05 am

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:11 am

I don't believe that this is offered for 89 & 90's is it? For boys maybe? And also offered for 92's for boys now I hear. Hopefully girls versions coming soon? Also, I think that the kids have plenty of opportunity here. 1991's get NDP 90/91, + this 15 camp, + potentially (likely) MGHCA Fr/So camp. 1990's get NDP 90/91 + MGHCA Fr/So camp. 1989's get NDP 88/89 + potentially (unlikely) Fr/So camp + potentially MGHCA Jr Fest (likely). 1988's get NDP 88/89 + potentially MGHCA Jr Fest (unlikely) + MGHCA Sr Classic (likely) + Chicago Showcase (likely). 1987's (the few that there are still in HS) get only the MGHCA Sr Classic + Chicago Showcase A couple things are needed to supplement all these "camps" or "festivals" - namely an elite prolonged development opportunity through league & clinic on & off ice summer-Fall-spring B&A... All of these things above are great for recognition, but I don't beleive that they actually are about development... Also - would love to see our NDP go to individual birth year groups - i.e. 1990 in one group and 1991 in another vs 90/91, etc. This would get more kids recognized I think and truly be best. We have so many deserving kids relative to the rest of the nation it's just amazing!!! Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 3/21/06 11:12 am

JJhockeySS · Post by **JJhockeySS** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:22 pm

GHS, I agree there are plenty of opportunities for these players. I can only speak for the coaches association stuff and not the MN/USA hockey events. The one thing I would like to add, is the purpose of the Fres/soph camp is strictly for development. It's intended to reach the kids that may not have camps in their area, or the player looking for a lot of off/on ice stuff they can work on in addition to what they are currently doing. There are no college coaches or parents allowed up at the camp for the week. The other CA events are meant for the recognition, and highly publicized to college coaches.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:46 pm

Good call - and I should add that there is a difference between a one week camp that sends kids away with something to work on vs. just getting whatever they can in a week. I've never believed in camps for the short (yet compact) duration is not preferable to extended period of contact from a development standpoint. I do beleive that camps that send kids away with something to work on is good. The issue of course is will kids work on things on their own, which in my mind is truly what determines an average vs. best player anyway. The best want it and will work on it without having a coach/clinic/camp/parent looking over their shoulder! What I'd really like to see is the CA & USA/MH work together on birth year camps 14/15/16/17/etc. instead of compete for kids AND I'd like to see the development atmosphere employed vs. a showcase mentality obvioulsy. Vizenor/USA/MN H has done a great job with the Select 15 too might I add. The reviews from the Fr/So camp has been outstanding too! ...can you imagine if they joined forces and expanded the base... Still think we need prolonged NDP based development program too and some connection to a B&A Elite league, etc. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 3/21/06 1:47 pm

JJhockeySS · Post by **JJhockeySS** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:57 pm

I agree 100%, and I don't see why it is so hard for too groups who care about the development of the players to get together and make these things easier for parents/athletes to figure out what to get their kids involved in during the off-season. There just seems to be too many roadblocks to get everyone on the same page.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:03 pm

The biggest question I run into from people (and it's a totally logical one may I add) is what is the correlation between: A) NDP B) Select 15 C) Fr/So Camp The all serve the same group, and it's quite possible that a kid could be doing all three in the same year! All have their value, and I think all could be worked together to offer: 1) NDP selection process for Phase 1, 2, and Lake Placid/Rochester NY 2) A birthyear camp akin to both Select 15 and Fr/So Camp for 14/15/16/17 year olds 3) An extended training option in conjunction with B&A elite hockey that runs Summer, Fall, and Spring for U16 & U19 levels. This way you cover your "recognition/selection," "camp/development," and "extended development" to both U16 & U19 levels and TO MORE KIDS!!! There woudl still need to be tiers, etc. to these things, but if we go to birth year NDP (#1) we could use that as a guide for nomination/selection for #2 & #3... and it could be done without bias/politics by HS/College coaches.

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:16 pm

We all see many of the big name HS players in elite leagues, etc. While there's great entertainment value in seeing the elites play against each other, there's got to be good entertainment and great developmental value in giving the tier-2 types some similar opportunities. Not only "prep" categories for the young players, but something for the older players who don't make the cut for HS elites. The upcoming junior festival is a great idea, but I'm wondering about something for the relatively unknown line-mate or the unheralded 2nd-liners. I don't want to sound as if I'm complaining and the big-name elite players definitely deserve the opportunites they receive. But opportunity is what I'm getting at here. Maybe there's plenty of tier 2 opportunities that I don't know about, but if there are then I'll bet that there are lots of parents and players who also don't know they exist. With off-season ice team being limited, I'm sure its a lot to ask. But tier 2 is a tough niche to be in; not on par with elites, but too good for most HS girls hockey camps. And maybe there are too many HS elite events popping up? Maybe not, but associations or arenas would still take in good money from parents of tier 2 players. So instead of duplicated elite events, or the same AAA teams playing each other 5 weekends a summer, maybe somewhere, someone someday will give the tier 2 players opportunities worthy of their talent.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:26 pm

Agreed. It's so tough too for the boarderline kid that wants to improve to find something if they aren't politically connected. I know life is like this in general, but I think that we have people out there that are already working very hard at all these events, and it wouldn't be hard to combine their amazing efforts to create an even greater offering with more clairity as to purpose and also understanding as to how we can help the best players play with the best to better themselves, but also how we elevate the next tier of player to give them the chance to elevate their game and maybe one day crack that "best" top tier group as well. The offering of the CA of Fr/So had this in mind I think. I believe something similar but in a more non-political broader development AND B&A sense could be done too. in fact, I think this is critical to retaining the best players in the MSHSL and minimizing the need for transfers. I should add - this isn't about "wattering down" the elite opportunities, but keeping the elite opportunities but also adding a 2nd seperate tier... and also extending more opportunities for B&A, AAA-like hockey but in a more development oriented setting with a non-political selection process based on HS coach nominations and selections made based on tryouts at NDP by independent HS/College coaches. SSM & TB have a development component via practice/training during the season - so our current configuration of B&A and largely AAA hockey during the summer (in most programs) don't ahve as much of the development/practice component as would be matched by TB & SSM in their settings I imagine... So - the point is - showcasing/selecting talent is great, but developing it is better, and we will have better players top-to-bottom if we can #1 offer more development-driven (vs. showcasing) opportunities to the top kids & #2 if we can also offer these opportunities to those players just off the "top" that are willing to work at it in a tier 2 setting... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 3/21/06 2:34 pm

hockeyrube · Post by **hockeyrube** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:14 pm

ghs, What is your opinion of the Select 15 Camp in Mankato ??

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:45 pm

My understanding is that it was well done in its first year last year. MSU Coach Vizenor was out securing the best coaches/college player counselors/etc. last season. I believe that it should be as good if not better now that it has a year in. The one issue that some had was that if a kid was going to Lake Placid last year as a 1990 they had so little time to go from the Select 15 to the airport to go out east? The timing was a little tight from what I heard, and subsequently a few of the very top 90's/15's last year may have decide to go without doing the camp as they were heading out to Lake Placid?

eastoaks · Post by **eastoaks** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:52 am

What is the MGHCA Fr/So camp?

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:41 am

Camp for HS players in 9th/10th grade classes currently.

eastoaks · Post by **eastoaks** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:15 am

ghs, any more info, where & when, are the girls invited from ndp and/or select 15's? thx...

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 11:38 am

HS coaches nominate and there is a tryout upcoming I believe? JJ is way more involved in this than I am as he was one of the inagural camp coaches last season, etc. FRESHMAN/SOPHOMORE DEVELOPMENT CAMP Sunday-Friday, June 25-30, 2006 Breezy Point Arena, Brainerd, MN I'll see if I can't find some of the info. on this... THE PHILOSOPHY... (the bold type is what makes this camp a good one) getting to the next level will require you to continue to hone those talents. That is where we would like to help. We have gathered together some of the finest High School Coaches in the state and have put together a curriculum and training program that will help you develop into the best hockey player you can be. Camp Goals: The difference between a Division III hockey player and a Division I hockey player is minimal these days. The difference between a third line D-I player, who will see a couple of shifts a game and a fourth line D-I player who may see a couple of shifts over the entire season, is even less. It takes a lot of dedication and hard work to make yourself just a little bit better than the players you are competing against. Spring Leagues and AAA Teams are fun to play on, but developmentally they do little for you. Trading off a little bit of fun today for a lot more fun later on requires that you spend more time concentrating on skill development and training. What we want to provide players with at our camp are tools that will help them help themselves become better hockey players. We will provide players with information, tools, training programs, ideas etc. that they can take with them and work on, on their own, during the off-season and throughout their regular season. Our camp will give players a taste of what it is like to train at the high, intense level that they will encounter if they choose to move on to the collegiate level or beyond. It will also give them a taste of what level of training will be required of them to get to that next level. The camp will be very hockey intensive. This is not intended to be a summer camp. We will not be horseback riding, swimming or making crafts; this is a development camp. Players will be training all day and part of the evening. They will be working on position specific skills as well as team skills. When they are not on the ice, they will be training off-ice on a variety of programs. If players are not prepared to skate 3-4 hours a day, train another approximately 4 hours and spend some time in the classroom – this is not the camp for them. Our goal is not to turn a player into an Olympian over the course of a week. It would be nice if it was that easy or that quick, but it isn’t. Think about how much you improved over the single best week of your last season. Positive results don’t occur overnight. It takes a long time and a lot of hard work to improve a little. We want to get you started on an extended training program that over the course of time will take you to the level of play that you desire. We will show you the programs, it will be up to you to do the work. You will only get out of this camp what you put into it, and you will only get to the next level of hockey by what you put into training and development over an extended period of time. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 3/23/06 11:41 am

eastoaks · Post by **eastoaks** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:00 pm

Thx, sounds like a great camp...Looks like it runs during the avance 15 in Mankato....

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:50 pm

Direct conflict? Too bad as then they will be competing for the same kids...

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:02 pm

Yep, there is a direct conflict. Just got 2 letters on the same day, one an alternate notification for the Advanced 15, one a notice of change for the Fr/So Development camp tryout. Both camps are for the same week. (Personally, I'm hoping she makes the Fr/So Dev. camp. Either one's an honor, though.) Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyDAD</A> at: 4/24/06 5:03 pm

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:58 pm

What really needs to happen is these two groups get together and coordinate or work together (better yet)!!! The kids that have it best are the ones that are 8th graders that are 92's as then they get their 8th grade year as 15 select, Fr/So for Fr/So camp, etc.

Eddie Shore · Post by **Eddie Shore** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:58 am

Amazing. This situtation is indicative of everything that is wrong with girls hockey in the state of Minnesota. For years, people whine that Minnesota Hockey doesn't provide the same opportunities for girls as it does for boys - such as the Advanced 15. No sooner is this opportunity provided (and good people like Jeff Vizenor brought in to provide guidance) than the MGHCA torpedoes the event by running a competing program. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>What really needs to happen is these two groups get together and coordinate or work together (better yet)!!!<hr></blockquote> Yeah, probably, GHS. Short of that, Minnesota Hockey needs to quit wasting resources, drop their event and let the MGHCA run with the ball.

hcky0809 · Post by **hcky0809** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:39 am

Eddie Shore - couldn't agree with you more and as a supporter of both boys and girls hockey, I continue to become more disenchanted with the girls program - it seems they continue to take one foot forward and two steps back. There are a lot of good people involved that are trying to do the rights things but there are others who have made some misguided decisions that definitely affect the overall development and focus of girls hockey. Shame on them!

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:54 am

I think that it's easy to point a finger at the girls and say shame on them for trying to replicate in 10 years what it's taken the boys 60 to do. Truth is that the boys were playing back to before the 1920's, but just not organized until the 40's HS wise. So, really, the boys have about 90 years to the girls 10... To be honest, I think much good has been done - but, as with anything, some additional tweaking could really help things. I think my desires are well known as far as suggestions for items that would (in my mind) help the girls game (or could at least be tried...). Sometimes, we need to take a step back though and think what growing pains have come with something that has become so big so fast, and how you can't always take something designed for the boys and make it work with the girls based on very basic differences in the two games, and the participants that they serve...

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Minnesota Hockey Advanced 15 Summer Development Camp

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Fr/So Dev. camp v. Advanced 15

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