WHEN PARENTS DON'T LIKE THE COACH...

buttercupbell · Post by **buttercupbell** » Mon May 08, 2006 7:54 am

How do you go about handling a situation where the parents don't like the coach and would rather see him gone then coaching?

mnhock · Post by **mnhock** » Mon May 08, 2006 8:34 am

Is the answer open enroll? Or is the answer, let the ATHLETIC DIRECTOR handle it. This topic should be re-named... WHEN PARENTS GET IN THE WAY.... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... >mnhock</A> at: 5/8/06 8:35 am

Icehouse1 · Post by **Icehouse1** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:50 am

You haven't really explained the situation regarding why the coach is under scrutiny by the parents to know the best way to handle it. Having been involved in girls hockey from youth to HS, I do find that hockey parents are a "breed" all of their own and like coaches, the few bad ones, can make it difficult for the good ones. I have had the opportunity to deal with both kinds and while it's easy to blame the parents for "getting in the way", I have also seen instances where it was a positive intervention for all involved including the coach. As we all know, hockey is unlike many other sports with regard to the financial and physical/emotional commitment involved. One cannot simply strap on a pair of skates and play hockey, nor can most go out in their yard and shoot hoops or kick a ball around to "practice". In addition, at the youth level the time commitment is just as intense for the parent as it is for the player. When our kids decide they want to play hockey, it becomes somewhat of an "investment" on every level. To ask parents not to be involved or have "blind faith" is not realistic and I have usually found those who "cry" the loudest about parental involvement are usually the ones that really need watching! I do agree that some parents can get out of hand as can some coaches and even administration (not to mention players). The "political" nature of hockey can bring out the worst in a lot of people. If we can figure out how to make the politics go away and fairness to all come through, then perhaps we could eliminate some of the anxiety and actually get more girls involved. I do think it is the responsibility of parents to be "involved" with who is coaching their kids and what philosophies they are using just as they would with their teachers and curriculm. A coach can have as much of a positive/negative impact on a kid as teachers (and sometimes more). If there is an issue, then we need to teach our kids how to resolve it fairly and accurately and like adults. I would like to think that the "bad" or "invasive" parents are a minority rather than a majority. Everyone from parents to coaches to administration need to check their own egos at the door and remember it's what is best for the kids.

buttercupbell · Post by **buttercupbell** » Mon May 08, 2006 10:24 am

Sorry I didn't explain myself very well. Basically what I meant was how does a coach cope or deal with all the pressures and stress that come with coaching a team when the parents dislike him. They don't agree with his coaching style etc. Should parents be allowed to call a coach during the season at home to discuss their son/daughter's playing time and whatnot? How much say do parents really have when it comes to coaches?

Icehouse1 · Post by **Icehouse1** » Mon May 08, 2006 11:17 am

Buttercup, I don't consider myself an expert, but I can only tell you about my experiences. I think it takes a very "special" individual to be a coach and I feel the same way about teachers as well. I also believe those coaches who take on girls hockey take on additional "challenges" than those who coach boys. I have interacted with both "good" and "bad" coaches and have been involved in the termination and/or installation of coaches. I guess in my mind it all goes back to the particular coach and his or her "style, knowledge and philosophy". You should also evaluate how his/her players interact and feel regarding those credentials. I believe it's more important that the coach "connect" with the team than with parents or administration...however, if the coach is a good communicator he/she can usually eliminate questions by communicating to all. Also, one must look at the majority and not the minority as there are always those few who never feel they get what they deserve. Also the "team" should come before the "individual" as hockey is very much a team sport and what I find is most of the players really undertand and "believe" in this concept. If all this criteria is adequately met by the coach, then I believe you must let the coach coach. Most good coaches I have dealt with usually make their philosophies and "rules" known upfront to the players and parents. I have seen meetings held early on where the coach will meet with the parents and address any issues upfront and meetings are also held with the AD as well. Many of the good coaches I have dealt with were good communicators, but once your child reaches HS level, the communication is, and should be, primarily through the player. With regard to the question regarding playing time, I have never met a coach who said they would not answer the question as long as it was approached in a non-emotional, non-attacking manner. Generally if you believe in the coach and his/her philosophies asking in an effort to receive constructive criticism and/or improvement can be very beneficial to the player - but usually most good coaches have already discussed this with the player involved. One thing that I find many people forget, that once a child gets to the HS level, playing time is NOT equal. This may be hard for some of these younger players who may be playing HS level at a very young age. Coaching is stressful even for the best of them and coaching has to be done for the majority and not the minority. The best circumstances are when the majority support the coach and the team regardless of their record. I have seen teams behave like champions when they had not won one game in the entire season...and this says a lot about the coach, the staff, the players and the parents. Most coaches are there for the right reasons and want to give something back. I believe if they know you support them and the team, they are open to questions and ideas of how to make things even better! Finally, your question about how much power parents really have? Depending on the circumstances and whether there is a majority or minority who do or do not like the coach...it can be a lot - and unfortunately sometimes even the minority can win and get someone "ousted"...that's why it's important to really understand what's going on. At the HS level, administration is the one who calls the shots, however, some actions taken are the result of parental input.

buttercupbell · Post by **buttercupbell** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:44 pm

Icehouse1, Thanks for you advice and answering my questions, I appreciate it!!! Yes I have to agree with you that coaching girls hockey can be more of a challenge then coaching boys. Taking heat from parents has got to be very stressful at times; especially when you live in a small town.

mnhock · Post by **mnhock** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:14 pm

I agree, good advice. bcup.. do live in a small town north on 35 just shy of Duluth?

buttercupbell · Post by **buttercupbell** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:50 pm

Nope, northern part of MN

hadenuf2006 · Post by **hadenuf2006** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:19 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>coaching girls hockey can be more of a challenge then coaching boys. Taking heat from parents has got to be very stressful at times; especially when you live in a small town.<hr></blockquote> As parents of girls playing hockey AND living in a small town, we couldn't possibly have a valid concern with regard to a coach, could we? - HA! Coaches don't have to be liked. (Many of them have already like themselves enough to last a lifetime anyway.) Coaches don't have to take a look at themselves thru the eyes of the parents and players to try to figure out if there might be something they can do to improve a situation or solve a problem. Coaches don't have to care what the players or parents think. But if they really, truly care about doing the job well, and more importantly if they truly care about the players, wouldn't you think they'd want to? Problem is, ego gets in the way and they don't want to hear it. We have a coach who has blatantly violated school district policies and exhibited really poor judgment/role-modeling (alcohol-related) w/ players present, but this is the tip of the iceberg. For many it was a really unpleasant environment, but parents don't want to make waves or be viewed as complainers, and they are especially concerned about a coach's anger being taken out on their kids, so they rarely address their concerns to the administration. We don't want to 'get in the way,' so we do nothing--except send our kids back into that situation the next year and the next...or transfer/move.

Rocketwrister · Post by **Rocketwrister** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:44 pm

mnhock-- Funny I'm assuming you meant Cloquet with that small town guess. I agree too, it is tough to be a coach now a days when there are some parents who tell you their son/daughter is divison 1; but in all reality would not make a community college rec team. (just 1 example). I always thought that if the parents "knew so much" why didn't they apply for the coaching job? It's very difficult now a days; you rarely see a coach stay around with the same team for a years (like 10 or so). Most coaches jump from team to team almost as much as open enrolled students do. Whether or not thats because of better opportunities OR because pressure from parents I don't know. www.rebelhockey.com

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon May 08, 2006 3:45 pm

What I've found is that many parents and others seem to think they "know enough" to be a coach, but they aren't willing to do the job. It's a heck of a lot of work with essentially only your love of the sport being the compensation. That supposed BIG coaching "stipend" usually amounts to pennies per hour, not dimes, quarters or even dollars! I think this was a good discussion, and some amazing input. The concerns need to be understood, and I think that if it's a playing time issue, that's a tough complaint as this is at the coach's discretion. All coaches play to win, play the best players, etc. If it's something else - such as game systems, or even "hockey" related knowledge based issues, that's tough too to call a coach on. If kids are being mistreated, if a coach's ethics are poor, or there are some other true issues beyond "hockey" - then you need to do something. In these cases, I don't know how it's best to approach the situaiton. You have to know the specific situation, person, policies, etc. What I always look for though is those that try to take playing time concerns and use other "twisted" facts to oust a coach (searching for anything to use against a coach). That scenario, along with just $$$ based politics forcing someone out, is wrong. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 5/8/06 3:47 pm

buttercupbell · Post by **buttercupbell** » Mon May 08, 2006 3:53 pm

Rocketwrister- Diddo on the "I always thought that if the parents "knew so much" why didn't they apply for the coaching job?" statement. You will always have some parent in any given sport that will complain about the coach or their child not being played etc. If you have a coach who isn't that great a coach and there's someone else who is better suited for the job, then so be it. But let's say you have a coach who's been coaching for a number of years and the parents don't like his coaching skills. He takes a lot of heat but yet there isn't anyone else that is willing to take over either. That over time has got to be very stressful on a person. I guess it all comes down to in the end you can't please everyone.

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Mon May 08, 2006 4:03 pm

When we say "Coaching Skills" what do we mean? Approach to teaching the game, knowledge of the game, that sort of thing? Does he not care about the kids, or is he maybe burning out feeling that he is the only reason that the program continues? Do the actions of the parents then just compound all of this? Just some speculation or potential thoughts. Sounds like a unique situaiton with no perfect answer! Interestingly, one reason that no one else may be willing to take over is DUE TO THE HEAT the paretns are giving the current coach! It's long been accepted that taking on a job in a community where the parents ousted the last coach isn't exactly a wise career move nor good for a coach's sanity either!

Rocketwrister · Post by **Rocketwrister** » Mon May 08, 2006 9:43 pm

I agree GHS! Although when a new coach steps into a program, it's like a "breath of fresh air" to coin a corny phrase. But after that 1st year, even if one wins a lot of games or not; the "honey moon" period is done and then one may feel some heat from parents and/or players. What does one do? I don't know....I do know if a person stays on as a coach to "spite" parents/players thats the wrong reason. I also know that coaches do have a lot of pride in themselves and their ability so I don't think a coach is going to just "up and go" because some parents don't like him/her or what they may have done to "susie". Good topic and debate! www.rebelhockey.com

Icehouse1 · Post by **Icehouse1** » Tue May 09, 2006 1:57 pm

Hadenuf, Again, I don't want to sound like a "know-it-all" because that's not true, however, although circumstances may be different, I have been involved in similar situations. If what you say is true (and I am not doubting you) I would think that you are not alone in your opinion and concern. Whether we are talking youth or HS level, if the majority of the parents feel something needs to be done, then as a group you should approach administration with these concerns. It seems disconserting to me that if the coach is this blatant that admin hasn't already done something (but sometimes they have their own agenda's too). There are times when parents MUST get involved and it sounds like this could be one of them. Again, if the majority feels this way and are willing to stand together, then no one needs to feel concerned that they (or their player) will be "singled" out. Believe me, it's an unpleasant place to be for a while, but if in the end the changes help to "strengthen" the program (on all levels - emotional, physical, philosophical) then it is certainly worth it. Again, it's what is best for the kids - ALL the kids. One last recommendation from my point of view, if and when you would have a meeting, be sure you can qualify your concerns with FACTS. Not that there's anything wrong with being emotional, but unfortunately that's the "bad wrap" hockey parents get whether it's true or not and thus some resistance is had in meeting with parents for this very reason. If you have some very emotional parents and are meeting as a group, see if there's one person who can speak on behalf of the group and keep the emotions "reigned in". Also, don't take "no" as an answer. If the majority of you all have very valid issues, then don't give up. I have had that happen that someone in "power" doesn't want to deal with the situation, but they forgot it WAS their job to do so and since I wouldn't give up and found "other" people to "remind them of that" they were left with no choice but to deal with it. Again, it's hard, it's uncomfortable and a lot of work, but if the changes you and the majority of the program are looking for, it's worth it. Our kids are worth it!

buttercupbell · Post by **buttercupbell** » Wed May 10, 2006 6:32 am

Quick question while we're on the topic of Coaches.... Does anyone know who will be coaching any of these MN Varsity Girls Hockey teams: 1. Warroad________? 2. Hibbing_________? 3. Roseau_________? 4. Int'l Falls________?

SEhockeyDAD · Post by **SEhockeyDAD** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:04 am

This discussion made me wonder what it would actually take to make me consider taking part in the attempt to remove a coach. Certainly there's an easy answer; innapropriate behavior. That may be considered a vague expression by some, but I think everyone is very certain when someone crosses that line. If that ever occurs, there's got to be a good indication that there's definately a problem. When several of the team members say there's a behavior problem, there's quite likely a problem. When at least a few parents witness a behavior problem, there's a problem. Outside of these scenarios, I can't see how anyone can seriously consider start a movement to relieve a coach of his/her position. (Maybe if every player on the team tells parents that the coach doesn't know anything about hockey, but its unlikely that someone devoid of hockey knowledge could find a coaching position.) If parents begin to discuss getting a different coach for reasons outside of behavior issues, they're making some questionable assumptions; the girls are really better than their record or performance indicates. Parents know something is wrong with coaching. Changing coaches will improve the team's performance. If complaining parents would do a little soul-searching, they might realize that their kids' record is right about where it should be, the coach probably knows more about the game and his/her team and that getting a different coach may not improve the team. I'll admit, I don't know as much about hockey as I like to think I know. However, I do enjoy discussions at the rink a lot, (perhaps to a fault, as my wife can attest.) I can't think of a single coach I've known who doesn't like to talk about the game also. He/she may be rightfully cautious about discussing the team, but I've had many really good discussions with coaches about hockey. I'd suggest to any concerned parent to approach the coach when its convenient to him/her and learn more about the game. They'll more than likely offer an assessment and their hopes for the team. For the parent, It can be enjoyable and enlightening, but only if you go in with the right attitude. If I talk to a coach, I'm probably going to learn something, but it'd be pretty silly to assume that I can tell the coach something he/she doesn't know. If a parent suggests they know better than the coach, who should be removed from the situation?

IGiveBlood · Post by **IGiveBlood** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:56 am

Inappropriate behaviour is one reason to remove a coach. The other legitimate one that I have personally seen is when there is a noticeable impact to the youth program. If a large number of players, in particular, impact players, start to leave the program for other programs, At this point the parties involved should be working with the AD to address "Is this coach the right one for the job".

hadenuf2006 · Post by **hadenuf2006** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:21 pm

Icehouse, I very much understand and appreciate what you are saying. Believe me, this whole thing has been gut-wrenching for us as parents, especially working very hard keep our feelings hidden from our daughter. It's different little things building and building until finally a couple incidents that just really put things over the edge. But this is HS sports and coach is a prominent/influential person in the hockey community, and I have found that most of us tend to keep our thoughts to ourselves (or use message boards to vent). In this particular case, the things that happened that we considered to be especially inappropriate were during an away trip 6 months ago. Kind of difficult to say anything about it now, even though it has eaten away at us (me) this entire time. People I've spoken with agree that the problems are mounting, but nobody wants to be known for trying to get a coach ousted, and in that respect I believe we ARE thinking of our children--the social stigmas associated with some of these situations do exist and should also be considered, and I think most kids don't want their parents stepping in...they'll try to ride out the storm because they love the sport. And you gotta respect that; life ain't all hat tricks and shutouts and there'll be bumps in the road. There is nothing we care about more than the kids and what's best for them (after all, that's why we had 'em!), but even though you are absolutely right that we should band together and pursue this in the best interest of the kids, for us we're just moving on while open enrollment is still an option. Again, thank you for your thoughts.

Icehouse1 · Post by **Icehouse1** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:33 am

hadenuf, Thank you for your kind words. I too understand what you are saying. Each situation is unique and you must handle it how you see fit for your own circumstances. I wish you and your program all the best! I personally have this "love/hate" relationship with the sport of hockey as I love the game as a participator and fan from the stands, but I "hate" the politics, false egos, and personal agendas that can give this sport such a "bad rap". While that sounds very negative, I do want to say that in my experiences I have also dealt with coaches, admin, and parents who are fantastic and have so much to give and for all the right reasons and, for the most part, the good has outweighed the bad overall. Let's just say (which you also mentioned) there has been many good life lessons learned by parents, coaches, admin and players through these "experiences"! Good luck and keep posting, I would love to hear how things are going!

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