Selects 17 Minnesota Hockey Failed us!

Bigtimeguy · Post by **Bigtimeguy** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:00 pm

Minnesota Hockey dropped a bomb on all the players trying out for Select 17's last weekend. They are allowing the 3 players from the National Team Development Program to take spots on Minnesota's team. These players, Frazee, Stoa and Johnson did not play High School Hockey in Minnesota this year. MN Hockey did not tell those trying out about this, but the players who are friends of the 3 got the information out in the locker room prior to "Try-outs". No Balls! Was not this Select process started by the HIGH SCHOOLS in Minnesota? The coaches recommended the players from their teams to a Sectional tryout based on High School sections. Then those selected to Plymouth, for Sectional games and evaluation. Then last weekend to the final 51's. Haven't we dumped enough USA hockey money into these 3 already? Shouldn't 3 other kids have a chance to improve their skills? Maybe those in Minnesota Hockey should read Herb Brooks article published a few months before his death about how he thought the NTDP should be trashed and the money collected by USA Hockey spent in a manner to benefit more hockey players. Certainly the 3 players in the NTDP are great hockey players, and their ability is not being questioned here. The point is they left Minnesota, some other players in the state could have left for Juniors etc, but elected to stay and play HIGH SCHOOL hockey here in Minnesota. This was an awful decision by Minnesota Hockey! The Selects is a huge money maker for the Program, but one would think each player would have a chance to make the team as advertised! I'm sure Herb Brooks is rolling over in his grave!

offman78 · Post by **offman78** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 2:06 pm

Well said. I think it was too bad many of the kids last weekend found this out before they played their first scrimmage - how discouraging to discover there were 3 spots already filled. Not that these guys aren't qualified to be on the state team talent wise, but I would have to think that by choosing to not play high school hockey in Minnesota would have voided this opportunity. I try hard to not buy into the whole "political" thing regarding sports but this decision by Mn hockey is making it hard not to. Another part I have a hard time with, is the fact that there were great hockey players there last weekend that may have had a bad day and didn't look their best, won't this play into the decisions being made as to who is on the state team? For those that didn't have to skate to qualify, there is no risk. Good luck to all ths guys who worked hard in the final 51 (54) scrimmages last weekend. It was fun to watch.

Finn70 · Post by **Finn70** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:17 pm

Maybe they should have told players prior to tryouts about this but where is it written anywhere that you had to play in MN HS hockey the prior year to be eligible? If this is just some assumption but not an actual rule, I don't see any problem with these 3 players being on the Select 17 team.

dozer27 · Post by **dozer27** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 4:28 pm

Nice post, I could'nt agree more. If this is true, then it is a slap on the face to the kids who have stayed home to play for their MINNESOTA high school. This is not a slam on the NTDP kids. They are talented players who have been given a great opportunity to develop their game. I also believe too much USA Hockey time and money is being spent on too few. This should be an opportunity for other talented Minnesota kids. Roster spots should be earned via the tryout process, not given out. Risk having to play sick or injured, have a bad day on the ice, or have some relatively unknown player simply outplay and outwork you for a spot. And lets not forget the $150.00 everyone else shells out for the chance to tryout. Perhaps the NTDP/USA hockey should just field their own team. I am willing to bet our Minnesota Select 17 Team would compete quite well with them. SAY IT AIN"T SO Minnesota Hockey!

Ppgoal · Post by **Ppgoal** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 5:46 pm

If Im not mistaken, I think this happened a couple years ago. Patrick Eaves and Mark Stuart were put on the team despite playing for the USNDTP. I agree its a pretty stupid move on the part of the organizers of the team.

SHP55 · Post by **SHP55** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:18 pm

Settle down it is only *3* players this year, only three and they are the best in the state for their position. If you think three is bad this year, think about next year. Erik Johnson, Kyle Okposo, Ryan Flynn, Mike Carmen, Jamie McBain, Trent Palm, Tony Mosey, Jim O'Brien (16 next year), Mike Forney, Tysen Dowzek. That is 9 players that will be select 17's next year and one that will be a select 16. Now only Johnson, McBain and Palm have commited thus far, but thats three right there, and think about 6 more, so settle down because they deserve to be there.

synergy44 · Post by **synergy44** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:56 pm

this is absolutely ridiculous....why should these kids be able to play at 17's?? they play in front of scouts every game and locked up scholarships? 3 kids that won't make the team are getting screwed out of being looked at and impressing ushl and college coaches....it may be only 3 kids, but when you look at it, there is only 2 goalie spots, which now will go to stalock and a good goalie like doth who should have made the team w/ stalock won't make it........also now only 5 d will make it and 11 forwards, when stoa, frazee, and johnson have nothing to play for except for fun..........

Eddie Shore · Post by **Eddie Shore** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:26 pm

Your anger is directed in the wrong place. USA Hockey is calling the shots on the national 16's and 17's. I doubt MN Hockey had a choice in this one.

falcons30 · Post by **falcons30** » Mon Apr 19, 2004 10:27 pm

Seems unusual that if the NTDP was calling the shots they would want one of there own participating in the Selects. If I'm not mistaken, isn't part of the reasoning for Selects is to find the "best" talent so as to possibly move on to the NTDP? NTDP already knows 'bout the MN 3 so why not find a few more? Or is it about winning the National festival? What does bothers me somewhat, is that these 3 earned a spot on the team without having to try out. I'm not discounting the fact they are good players, but they obtained a position on the team based on reputation. Does this mean that, for example, a top player who missed tryouts due to an injury or some other circumstance should be able to step in after a tryout and play based on that players reputation? MN Hockey needs to clarify these issues so as to maintain their integrity in Selects. They clearly state "that "politics" does not play any part in the decision making process." Let's hope not, but it seems be looking that way. Just questions that maybe need to answered by the MN Hockey folks. Regarding whether they have to play MN High School, there's nothing in the Brochure that really says they have to have played High School. They do have to be registered with USA Hockey, though. Good luck to those players that move on. Those players that don't, still get to say they were one of the best in the State. No one can take that away.

juniorhockey · Post by **juniorhockey** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:37 am

I find it interesting how nobody ever complains about the national development program untill Herb Brooks did. Granted he may be right and you ALL may be right also, but some of you should try to form opinions of your own. The Program was designed to increase our chances in International Competetion. This being it's purpose, it has done an OUTSTANDING job. As for the guys coming back. I guess it makes sense. I might not agree, but that's life. At the festival they take the best and make the National team that competes in the International Competetion. I'm sure USA Hockey wants ALL the NTDP to get in. It makes USA Hockey look better. I wonder if this is going on in every state, I assume so.

Jiggy35 · Post by **Jiggy35** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:21 am

yeah that is pretty crazy. i think those less fortunate athletes that have to balance school with hockey for their school, should get first pick. Only resort to tryouts if the team is in need of it. <img src="http://www.angelfire.com/mn3/giguere_35 ...

hockeylife · Post by **hockeylife** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:42 am

And Jack Johnson should represent MI, as that is where he started his hockey, only moved to MN for 2 years to play at SSM. I think his family is now back in MI.

Post by **Mitch Hawker** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:52 pm

USA Hockey calls the shots and pays the bills for selects and they use the festival as a try out for the NTDP. When the NTDP first started, the NTDP players did play on their respective Select 17 teams the next summer. The next year they changed it so they did not. I can see why they may want to include them as a gauge to see if those NTDP players have progressed in comparison to their peers and to see who else might be at the level of the NTDP players for future invites.

Bigtimeguy · Post by **Bigtimeguy** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:18 pm

If USA Hockey is calling the shots, why were all checks for the festivals made out to MINNESOTA HOCKEY? I agree that MN Hockey was told to put these 3 on the team. However, MN Hockey should have been up front in the start, and told everyone in the first round of Selects that this was happening. Why didn't they do it? Money! In the first round their were 40 players trying out. 40 players @ $75.00 is $3,000. Lets estimate $1000 went for ice, refs and jerseys. That comes out to $2,000 in the pocket. And of course we had 8 sections. So MN Hockey had a PROFIT of $16,000 just in the first round. Probably $30,000 for the complete Festival. If word got out about the 3 would as many players (= Money) been interested? If you look at the 3 players the one having the most effect is the goaltender, Frazee. All these goaltenders knew coming in to this that Alex Stalock would get one of the spots, because he deserved it. (Stalock went thru all three levels of the Selects, Class Act!) So all the original Goaltenders thought that one spot was open for MN Selects National Team. I'm sure they had to be tremendously disappointed when they found out that Frazee had the other spot. I have seen three of the goalies play several times before the Final 51, and Poderzay, Doth and Cook did not have their "A" games going for them. I had not seen Bandar or Cook play prior to this weekend. Minnesota Hockey should have made every player trying out, aware of the 3 from the NTDP being put on the roster. Minnesota Hockey should set a good example for our High School kids, not this!

2ahockeydude · Post by **2ahockeydude** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:01 pm

So, what was said above, there were already 9 picked for the 16 level?? Too bad that wasn't published before the tryouts began.... "We're looking for 6 skaters to fill the team, come one come all...." Wow!! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)">

Eddie Shore · Post by **Eddie Shore** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 3:08 pm

No, all of the kids mentioned above competed at the Final 51's for the 16's this year.

Brett11 · Post by **Brett11** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:51 pm

I'll bet USA Hockey is putting these NDTP'ers in the national festivals so they can put them on the summer national teams that will go to Europe. Last Summer when the Select 17's won the U-18 World Junior Cup (first time ever for the USA), which was a world championship title, they did it without any NDTP'ers at all. This embarassed USA Hockey, considering the current 86 NDTP'ers have never won a world title, and last year's USA World Cup champs beat the best of the best over there. Troy Jutting was named USA Hockey Coach of The Year as a result of this feat. Perhaps USA Hockey feels this year's Select 17's could repeat without the NDTP'ers, and don't want to be embarassed again. If they put NDTP'ers on the team and do win it again this year, at least USA Hockey can say it was because they had NDTP'ers on this summer's team. The NDTP'ers get enough recognition, attention and money heaped on them. They should not be allowed to participate in the Select process. The Select process was always a chance for those not asked to Ann Arbor to shine and succeed on a national and international level. I think this is one of the reasons last year's Select 17's won in Slovakia. They wanted to prove they were as good, and in last summer's case, better than the 86's who were in Ann Arbor.

vandersmut · Post by **vandersmut** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:26 pm

I guess that we need to implement a system that is completely fair to all competitors. In fact, lets have a state tournament and give trophies and medals to all team and players that participate. Guys, the point of a Select Team is that they are based on picking the top players in the state, regardless of where they play. If they are three of the top players in Minnesota, well they belong on the Select 17 team - no questions asked. Moreover, I understand your frustration that the three individuals did not need to try out for the select team, but most of you also know that try-outs do not tell a coach that much. Every good coach will have a good idea of who will be make the team before the try-out starts. I appreciate the fact that one individual mentioned that Herb Brooks wanted to dismantle the NDTP, but you failed to understand that Herb picked his 1980 OlympicTeam before the Olympic try-outs began. He knew who he wanted and it did not matter how many kids paid for the opportunity to try-out for the team. Life and hockey are not always fair. I do agree, however, that MN Hockey should mention that some players may be added to a select roster even if they did not attend try-outs. Guess what, that is not politics. If the player belongs on the team, then he should be with the team. Have you ever watched Frazee in the net? Have you watched Stoa or Johnson play? They belong on the team as three of the top ten on the team. We all know that politics are a part of many decisions in hockey - even if MN Hockey says that politics are not a determining factor. Know it. If you decide to try-out for a select team and get bumped by another player who didn't try-out, well move on as it is not the end of your career.

synergy44 · Post by **synergy44** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:46 am

vadersmut, no one here is saying those 3 can't play...wake up, please.....the point is, they have their opportunity to shine in front of everyone and wear the usa sweater......why not give more kids the opportunity, develop MORE MINNESOTA KIDS.....isn't that WHAT HERB BROOKS WANTED??????.......winning the world junior cup or whatever it was was nice, but it doesn't hold as much significance as the U18 worlds.......or even the u17s tourny where canada sends a team from each province.......i don't even know if every team in europe always sends there best, its been well known the best russians don't always play...........but thats not the point, the point is, usa hockey is just getting more and more insane and a joke........let more kids get an opportunity to play, and stand by your decisions and maybe they should release a statement as to why they are being allowed on.......

Brett11 · Post by **Brett11** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:50 am

Synergy44, The 2003 World Junior Cup played in Slovakia in August had all of the same teams and players who played in this month's U-18 World Championship. It is the summer version of the U-18 World Championship. Players like Sydney Crosby, Wes O'Neil, Alexander Ovchekin and other top players in the world played in it. The USA usually gets killed in this tournament because they don't send their NDTP'ers to it. In 2003 the USA U-18's surprised everyone by beating Sweden, Slovakia, Canada and Russia twice to win this world championship. And they did it with only players who came up through the Select process. Hence, they were incredibly motivated to prove themselves on the world stage, which they did. It will be unfortunate if USA Hockey choses to put the NDTP'ers into this select process this year. In the 86 NDTPer's case, they have had a chance to win a world championship twice in the last two years and couldn't do it. This year's 87's had a chance as well this year and will get another chance next year in the U-18 WC. They should not be allowed in this year's Select process. Period.

synergy44 · Post by **synergy44** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:38 am

do you have a link or anything? are you sure crosby played in it last year...i'm not doubting you, i just didn't hear much about it and was wondering if you have any links to the rosters or anything, it would be interesting to see the russian roster and see if there top kids were all there....b/c i know one summer, parise's year so 85s i believe they were in a different tourny where they just killed everybody....

juniorhockey · Post by **juniorhockey** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:52 am

Brett, I see your point. But it doesn't make sense to punish 17 year old kids for not winning an International competetion. By putting these players in the festival, it doesn't grant them automatic spots on the National team. I'm sure they enter the week as the favorites, but it would make it hard for them to get selected if they performed poorly. I see nothing wrong with them being placed on the team and nothing wrong with them competeing for the National Team. Because of one's past results we should not assume one's future performance. I say let them pick the best, from the best.

Brett11 · Post by **Brett11** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:00 am

Synergy44, At the time, you could get all of the final statisitics on the IIHF website. I don't know if it is still there. Here are the stats for the four Minnesotans who participated, (plus the two Canadians I mentioned): Mike Taylor F, 2G, 5A, 7 Pts. (4th overall) Justin Bostrom F, 0G, 2A, 2Pts. Jack Hillen D, 0G, 2A, 2Pts. +5 (7th best +/- for D) Matt Niskanen D, 0G, 1A, 1 Pt. +3 Sydney Crosby F, 4G, 2A, 6 Pts. (6th overall) Wes O'Neil, D 1G, 4A, 5Pts., +2 Gee, looks like our select players did pretty well against the best in the world.

traveler · Post by **traveler** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:52 am

Sorry bud in many ways and often times you are correct, less this time USA hockey does not take care of Minnesota. Minnesota Players and their parent for years have taken care of both. Through there entry fee's and registrations both of these organizations have built their premdona status on the backs of hard working Minnesota people . Many many old timer's have protested the development program since its inception as it skimmed litterally millions of dollars from thousands of players to develop a few. All this for the purpose of what? Players coming back and taking our own players spots, just another nail in the coffin for Minnesota Hockey players. This is what thinking globally gets you.

Eddie Shore · Post by **Eddie Shore** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:04 am

Bigtimeguy, Ask your local Minnesota Hockey District Director to see the MN Hockey financials from last year. Minnesota Hockey lost money on the Select (Advanced) program. To the tune of something in the neighborhood of $12,000. Also - and let me state up front that I am not a fan of NDTP - I find it somewhat comical that if players from our state that go to Ann Arbor, many on this board consider them to not be from Minnesota anymore. No, they are not playing high school hockey here, but they were raised in our youth system and they do reside here in the offseason. Good luck to all of the players selcted to play in the national tournaments!

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Selects 17 Minnesota Hockey Failed us!

Selects 17 Minnesota Hockey Failed us!

Re: Selects 17 Minnesota Hockey Failed us!

Just one point

Selects 17 Minnesota Hockey Failed Us

Re: Selects 17 Minnesota Hockey Failed Us

people people

ntdp at selects

Re: ntdp at selects

Re: ntdp at selects

Money

Re: Money

Re: Money

USA Hockey

Minnesota Hockey Dishonest

What about those 16's??

Re: What about those 16's??

NDTP'ers should not be allowed in!

Re: NDTP'ers should not be allowed in!

ntdp and selects

No NDTPer's

slovakia tournament

"shouldn't be allowed"?

NDTPer's?

Pure BS Mitch

Re: Minnesota Hockey Dishonest