Minnesota Twins

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Fri May 27, 2005 9:01 am

i cant take a whole season of this. Every game is a battle. Twins pitching has been very good. The hitting has to come around though. The pitchers are going to get real tired of having to pitch with absolutely no margin for error. I know Nathan blew that save on Wed. but its tough to have to be perfect. Lets get some runs.

Newguy99 · Post by **Newguy99** » Fri May 27, 2005 2:16 pm

Although I do agree the Twins need to score more runs I disagree that the division is any where near from over as Packerboy stated.If the Twins win 5 in a row and the Sox lose 5 it's all tied up. You can disregard what win percentage the Sox need to play for the rest of the year to win the division because in 1 week it could be all tied up. Should be intersting to see how this all plays out!

Hillfan · Post by **Hillfan** » Fri May 27, 2005 10:33 pm

I'd have to say pitching is going to be very solid, afterall it's been shown so far (3rd best ERA in Majors). The bats wont be bad either. They just smacked 16 hits off Toronto tonight, so thats not a bad sign.

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Sat May 28, 2005 3:50 pm

Anyone else glad the Twins didn't pony up and spend all that $ on LaTroy? Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Sat May 28, 2005 10:24 pm

Hold on a second here, the Orioles have an underrated pitching staff?? Erik Bedard has really come around this year. He's got a 5-1 record, 2.08 ERA,1.04 WHIP, 52 Ks but this is only his 2nd real year in the majors. And he's on the DL right now. Reports are that he could be a top line starter and he's done well this year, but he's awfully green. Bruce Chen has good numbers this year, 5-2, 3.51 ERA 1.25 WHIP, but he's been in the majors since 1998 and has a lifetime ERA of 4.34. Maybe he's finally learned how to pitch but he's been scuffling around a long time without a lot of real success. Can he put up good numbers for a full season as he did last year? I'm skeptical. Rodrigo Lopez has had two 15 win seasons but he's well suited to the third starter role. His numbers this year are mediocre. Daniel Cabrera has also put up mediocre numbers despite 4 wins. His walks are way down from last year's 89 in 147.2 innings. He's also in his second year but his numbers don't show that he's made the leap that Bedard made. Sidney Ponson, how has this guy won five games? He's got a 5.66 ERA, 1.60 WHIP, and opposing batters are hitting .302 right now against him. He's pitched some good games but he gave up 6 ER in 1.1 IP to Kansas Freaking City. So, I see a young pitcher with good potential doing well, a journeyman putting up good numbers, a no.3 starter performing as expected, a young pitcher underperforming and Sidney Ponson, who knows what you'll get with him. The rotation is the weakest part of the Orioles team, I don't see how you could call this staff underrated.

koren808 · Post by **koren808** » Sat May 28, 2005 11:12 pm

Yes, it is the worst part of their team. I'm just saying that they don't get the repect that they deserve. They are treated like they are the worst group of pitchers assembled. And Cabrera isn't underachieving, by the way. 4 wins and having an over 9 K/9 isnt bad. Yes he has a 5.3 ERA, but they play at an extremely friendly hitters park. Add that to if Ponson and Lopez pitch like they are capable of, and that is a solid staff. And to answer ER's question, yes.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> ------------------- "75 percent of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Smoot." --Fred Smoot

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Sun May 29, 2005 8:44 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>The rotation is the weakest part of the Orioles team, I don't see how you could call this staff underrated.<hr></blockquote> Didn't I say something like this Koren? JK man <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>they play at an extremely friendly hitters park<hr></blockquote> I'm sorry, but the only definition of an extremely friendly hitters park is Coors Field. Unless the dimensions are 285 to left, 315 to center and 280 to right, Coors is the only park that gets that designation. Koren, please check your stuff next time. For the record, Cabrera has pitched in 3 away games. In those games he has gone 16.2 innings and given up 14 earned runs. He has pitched 6 games at home in which he has gone 36 innings and given up 17 runs. That's a 7.77 ERA on the road and a 4.25 ERA at home. So much for the hitter friendly park argument. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... lasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

koren808 · Post by **koren808** » Sun May 29, 2005 3:31 pm

Historically, Baltimore has long had a friendly hitters park. And while his away numbers are worse, Cabrera is 3-0 in those 3 games. Plus, two of those games, at Tampa Bay and at Toronto, are 2 other hitter-friendly stadiums. I dont know if US Cellular in Chicago is a hitters park or a pitchers park, but Baltimore scored a lot of runs that game, too. So he has pitched in, what I'm assuming is, all hitter-friendly ballparks. And in one of his losses, he lost 1-0, so he very easily could be 5 and 2 right now. He just needs to cut down on his walks, and avoid giving up the big hit, as he usually gives up 1 HR a game. He does that, and he could potentially have a 15 win season, and if he continues to get K's at the rate he is getting them, he could get 200 K's in a season, too. Not likely, but possible. ------------------- "75 percent of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Smoot." --Fred Smoot

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:52 am

The real problem with Cabrera right now isn't whether or not he's pitching in a hitter's park but his control. He's averaging a walk every other inning and conceivably his control problems also lead to the home runs that he's given up. Wins aren't really a useful stat, because a pitcher can't control how many runs his team scores for him. Cabrera may have lost a game in which he only gave up 1 run, but he also won a game in which he gave up 5 runs. It sounds like he's a work in progress, I hadn't realized that the O's called him up from AA just last year. The report I read indicates that he's got a live arm with a 97 mph fastball and a good curve but he has trouble controlling the fastball because of inconsistent release points. This is troubling, as I see that he's had some high pitch counts this year and I wouldn't be surprised to see him spend time on the DL in the next year or two with an arm ailment. If the Orioles had more depth in the rotation they would probably be better off putting him in the bullpen, like the Twins did with Johan. So Cabrera could be a Randy Johnson, a tall guy who had control problems early in his career. Or he could be another LaTroy, a talented pitcher but unable to find the consistency to be a starter. And speaking of LaTroy, he was a great late inning reliever for the Twins but there's no way he's worth $5.3 million. Believe it or not, he's making more than Johan this year...

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:47 am

Good points Chris. I dont think we can be that smug about letting Hawkins go. He was very effective as a set up man here and after he left. Maybe the playoff series vs the Yankees would have taken a different turn last year had he been around instead of Rincon. Hawkins is not a closer. I dont know why anyone would put him in that position. He does not have the make up needed to be a closer. That was already established when he was here. The Cubs did to Hawkins what the Twins did to Ron Davis. You cant fit a square peg into a round hole.

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:03 pm

Ah, Ron Davis, that's a name that conjures up nightmares. You're right Packerboy, Hawkins is not a closer nor was he a starter. He had finally found his niche in his last two years with the Twins. I don't know how much he made last year, but he'll be making $5.3 million this year and no late inning reliever is worth that much. I can't blame him for taking the money, but while he would have made several million less pitching for the Twins it seems like he might have been in a better situation. Sometimes the extra money isn't worth the extra hassle.

Hillfan · Post by **Hillfan** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:35 am

Well switching the subject a bit and going over to the Twins and Yanks. They started off with a good win last night against the Yanks 6-3 with the absences of Mauer, Morneau, and Punto. Kyle Lohse rebounded from a tough start to pitch 6 innings of 3 run ball and get the win, improving his record to 5-3. I have to say I really like what Rick Anderson has done with Kyle (and of course the rest of the pitching staff). He changed it up with Kyle so that he throws 3 pitches. One of them is a 2 seam fastball, and it has been working very well for him. Hopefully the Twins can keep it up and take a series from the Yanks this weekend.

Newguy99 · Post by **Newguy99** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 2:05 pm

Get the brooms out! The Yanks will be lucky to get 1 in this series. Newguy predicts, Yankees miss playoffs, they are just too old.

EREmpireStrikesBack · Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:55 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Get the brooms out! The Yanks will be lucky to get 1 in this series.<hr></blockquote> NewGuy's predictions don't hold water anymore. The Yanks have taken 1 and may be taking the series. I will agree with the too old part though. Seriously George, why didn't you sign Vlad & Beltran instead of Sheff (love him, but he's old) & trading for Randy (terrible move). You would have taken 20 years off the roster and probably payed less $. If he doesn't start spending on FA's less than 30 and put the same time & effort into farm team development, the Yanks will have another 7 year slide like they had when Mattingly was on the team. Wise up <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... lasses.gif ALT="8)">

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:08 pm

I guess I can't say too much about my predictions either. My hatred of Kevin Brown continues as he pitches another great game for the opposing team. Also, NY's bullpen shows their strength yet again, giving up lots of runs. Newguy is right about one thing, the Yankees are really old. Either trades this year or in the offseason combined with better signings and minor league development is the only way the Yanks will get younger and get back to what they used to be. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... lasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 Girls

Hillfan · Post by **Hillfan** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:10 pm

Must agree, the Yanks are starting to show their age more. I must say that I have enjoyed the play by the Yankees very much, mostly because Steinbrenner is heated up and bursting on average once a week <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /happy.gif ALT=":D"> .

Newguy99 · Post by **Newguy99** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:03 pm

Twins didn't sweep but took the series so I guess I can't complain. I don't know about you guys but I would enjoy playing the Yanks in the playoffs THIS year. I know I am sarcastic on here quite often but seriously they are not a team I fear anymore. Their pitching is average/bad, defense average/bad, offense is good, to me this is a team that doesn't show a whole lot of promise and will be lucky to win 90 games. Go Twins!

EREmpireStrikesBack · Sun Jun 05, 2005 10:20 pm

If the Yanks do make the playoffs, I hope they don't play the Twins until the LCS. Johan gives the Twins two near guaranteed wins, Kevin Brown gives the Twins one guaranteed win and I'm sure the Yanks bullpen could give them a shot in at least 3 games. That's 3 guaranteed wins with a shot in 3 games. You only need 4 wins to advance... I want the Yanks to play the AL West winner and at least have a chance. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... lasses.gif ALT="8)"> Elk River AA State Champions- 2001 Boys & 2004 GirlsEdited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... kesBack</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://images.usatoday.com/news/health/ ... /darth.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 6/5/05 10:20 pm

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 8:58 am

I think its pretty amazing that the Twins lead MLB in lowest ERA. Not just the AL but all of baseball. Considering the NL still has the pitchers hitting, thats pretty good. They need to keep hitting though. Shouldnt be losing games because the relief staff gives up 1 run in 3 innings. Sure, once in a while they have to shut them down completely but every night is a little tough to do. Right now, the Yankees making the playoffs looks unlikely. With that lineup, things could change but they look a little off right now. Might not be their year.

koren808 · Post by **koren808** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 1:56 pm

Don't need to say much, but Jesse Crain is a freak. He has a pretty good ERA right now. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"> In my mind, the biggest reason that the Twins pitching staff is so successful is that they don't walk anybody. I saw a stat earlier this year that said of the pitchers with the top K/BB ratio over a certain amount of innings, the top 3 were Silva, Radke, and Santana. It means that these 3 have excelent control of their pitches, which means less mistakes, therefore less runs allowed. ------------------- "75 percent of the world is covered by water. The rest is covered by Smoot." --Fred Smoot

Newguy99 · Post by **Newguy99** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:31 pm

I know this is off the subject but if you like country check out Kenny Chesney's song, "Keg in the closet." Great tune especially if you went to college, too bad I will be graduating this fall, oh well life goes on. Go Twins!

EREmpireStrikesBack · Post by **EREmpireStrikesBack** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 5:23 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>In my mind, the biggest reason that the Twins pitching staff is so successful is that they don't walk anybody.<hr></blockquote> I totally agree. I saw that same stat and saw somewhere that Silva has a super low BB/9 innings (I figured it out to be .36) and that his isn't even the lowest on the team. Radke has .32 BB/9. The next closest guy to those two is Javier Vazquez with .92 BB/9, nearly triple their numbers. That is purely amazing. That means you are making the hitters work to get on base, which is exactly what a pitchers job is. Yes, they only have 72 strikeouts between them, but the Twins defense has always been near the top of the league. Why not use that to your advantage? Also, is there any doubt that Johan is the most dominating pitcher in the game even with his "struggles" (can hardly call those struggles, some guys would love to pitch like that.) He's got a 1.19 BB/9, but an amazing league leading 11.34 K/9. That's 8.74 strikeouts for every walk he gives up. (Radke leads the league with 16.67 K/BB, nearly double Johan's amazing number.) His WHIP (walks & hits per inning pitched) is less than 1 at .94. He's only behind Pedro, Clemens & Jake Peavy in that catergory. Some pretty distinguished company. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... lasses.gif ALT="8)"> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... kesBack</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://images.usatoday.com/news/health/ ... /darth.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 6/6/05 5:29 pm

ChrisK · Post by **ChrisK** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 9:10 am

Exactly, the low number of walks is the key to a dominant staff. You could make a strong argument that this is the Twins' best staff ever. I don't think the Twins have had a more dominant starter than Santana and Nathan is the strongest closer that I've seen and I've been through the Reardon and Aguilera eras. And this staff is deep, Lohse is probably the weakest starter and he could be a no.3 starter on a lot of other teams. In addition to the soft hitting though, the Twins need to play better in the field. On Saturday, Tiffee, at first, let a routine throw from short get by him and bobbled a routine grounder that ended up costing them the game. If the hitting or the fielding picks up, the pitching is good enough to carry this team into the playoffs. Trouble is, the White Sox have been pitching almost as good as the Twins.

powerplay009 · Post by **powerplay009** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:15 pm

In addition to the soft hitting though, the Twins need to play better in the field. On Saturday, Tiffee, at first, let a routine throw from short get by him and bobbled a routine grounder that ended up costing them the game. If the hitting or the fielding picks up,

Listening to WCCO on Sunday and Gardenhire was saying that Jones was taking some grounders at first base and you will probably see him in Arizona at first base and Ford will head to right field.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Tue Jun 07, 2005 1:10 pm

I agree that the infiled play is a notch or 2 below what it was the last 3 years. But when you consider they now have changed who they have at all positions within a years time, it should not be a surprise. They need to play better but lets start hittin the ball.

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