FAIR PLAY POINTS

Rinkrat95 · Post by **Rinkrat95** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:43 pm

I'm not against HEP, so don't take this wrong. I thank you for being honest about the program. I don't like the fair play points because it isn't teaching the young players how to hit, it isn't teaching them how to score, it isn't teaching them how to stickhandle or stop a puck. It comes down to a ref making a judgement call on a kid. I know they'll make mistakes, but why get a point in the standings when you already had the powerplay on the ice durning the game?

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:46 pm

HEP and Fair Play (as well as everything else) is re-examined annually. It will be again this year. There are some board members that do not feel Fair Play is a good measuring stick (that is all it was supposed to be at the beginning, now it seems to be an enforcing tool). I would be willing to bet there will be a debate on Fair Play this spring, summer. HEP also will be examined and maybe re-worked. No one on the Board expected the program to be static.

barado23 · Post by **barado23** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:01 pm

Seems like all I have heard in regard to HEP is static!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eek.gif ALT=":eek">

All The Heat · Post by **All The Heat** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:09 pm

Mark, How far OVER budget is the HEP program from its conception?

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:57 pm

I believe the first year it was $80,000 over. This year ??? - I hope it is on budget as we have had many discussions on it, but have not seen numbers beyond the last meeting.

All The Heat · Post by **All The Heat** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:19 pm

Aren't we robbing Peter to pay Paul? On one hand we talk about decling numbers due to time/money, and on the other hand we spend +/- $430,000 on a program that isn't working. (This is starting to sound like government accounting.) Are we making any headway here? The "Ready, Fire, Aim" policy can be very expensive!

barado23 · Post by **barado23** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:24 pm

Do you know how much money must be going into pockets. Over budget I can see why. Maybe instead of the State of Minnesota investigating all the pull tab and chaitable gambling for kids maybe they should start at the top. Someone contact cahnnel 9!!!!!! Again the rich get richer.

OnFrozenPond · Post by **OnFrozenPond** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:31 pm

Greybeard is right. A too many men on the ice penalty has nothing to do with fair play. If the system won't go away, it should be modified. Only the over aggressive peanlties should count against the fair play point: Cross-check, Roughing, Slash, Checking from behind, etc. Also, perhaps it should the number of penalties not the number of minutes.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:51 pm

Everyone take a look under your chairs. I think barado has lost something.

tjhd5 · Post by **tjhd5** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:41 pm

elliot , your telling everyone that the Mayo Clinic has not put any money into this, then i think you better look twice... If they havent where did all the start up money come from, the tooth fairy.... the problem is that they are not giving anymore to it, they just got it going and us poor saps still have to pay for it... there arent enough fines to come even close to cover any of the costs... why did Mn Hockey ask the districts for money out of thier war chests last year,,,, bottom line is that everybody dislikes it, and that is putting modestly,so why doesnt MN Hockey listen to their members and can this stupid thing

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:53 pm

Mayo put no money in directly. Their contribution was staff time to help with the evaluation of material, establishing material etc... All money was MN Hockey money and from supporting sponsors. And yes it has been a big discussion at MN Hockey. Tryin gto accomplish one or two things, but getting something most (if not all) DD did not want. It will, as I said earlier, be on the agenda. But NO, Mayo put no dollars into MN Hockey or for the dollars that I have mentioned above. WE (meaning you, I and most everyone else that reads these pages) are the ones that have paid for it.

Uh Oh Oreo 92 · Post by **Uh Oh Oreo 92** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:18 pm

HEP points can hurt your team also

tjhd5 · Post by **tjhd5** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:01 pm

well thats the PC way of putting the contribution.. It is astounding that the leaders of MN Hockey have the access to this amount of money and spend ever so wisely. MN Hockey must think it grows on trees or something.....BY the way i did attend the meetings before they started this and stood up and asked some of these same questions to the people that were selling this snow job,, they could not answer my first question and after that they did not want to be put on the spot and did not want to look in my direction when I had more to ask.... MN hOckey expert minds were made up before it got to the common folk which pay the way .... Ya you can say i am sour on this, but it was ridiculous before it started and just keeps getting worse,,,, Lets pull the plug and let it sink with the Vikings in Lake Mntka.

troll21 · Post by **troll21** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:30 pm

Let see, if I understand this right..... $80,000 over budget 2 years ago, last year is unknown. If you worked for me, you would be FIRED for wasting my money. Start at the top and look at who is in charge, bye bye. MNHOCKEY spends money on programs that people don't want or want to change, in some capacity.. What is wrong with this picture? That's right, MNHOCKEY is an organization that can not be challenged on what they do. They do not like to be questioned. If you challenge them, you lose and look out for the black cloud over your name. Bring to court this could be are grounds for suspension or expulsion.

All The Heat · Post by **All The Heat** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:38 am

Almost a half a million dollars on a program, and is still is not working the way the DD's thought it would or should?? I think if each of the DD's had a personal investment that was as sour as this mess, they would have jumped off the sinking ship a long time ago. Elliott, if someone said that you HAD to market your book through a certain agency with large costs, and you did not see the results that you wanted, what would you do? Where's the accountability? Where is the responsibility? Someone needs to take ownership, and use some COMMON SENSE!

dumb puck · Post by **dumb puck** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:01 am

I do not like the hep program. They need to get together with all the coaches and referees to figure out how to improve this program. Some referees cal a lot of lame penalties which end up changing the way a team has to play & ultimatly costing them a point. THIS IS NOT RIGHT.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:03 pm

You have to remember that Fair Play is NOT HEP - just a part of HEP.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:10 pm

Yes, we are very concerned about the cost. And the benefit. Personally, I am very concerned about Fair Play Points. It is doing what Ted Brill did not want, that he wanted to overcome, that being 'we do not want to police, we want to educate.' Fair Play was to be a measuring tool not an enforcement tool. It is not working that way. It is a distraction from HEP. It also punsihes teams unfairly. And not just the team that loses the point. Example Teams 1 through 8 are that good withinthe distrtict. Team #2 is rough and tumble or just bad luck and lose a few points. Teams 3 & 4 do not lose a point. #2 falls to the number four seed and 3 & 4 move up. Now in the semis #1 has to play #2 to see who makes it to the fianls, where the two teams in the finals advance to regions. Not at all fair to #1 team. Great benefit to #3 (and #4 teams). And should #2 team be punished to the point where they have less an opportuinity to advacne to regions. Not really 'fair' all the way around are these 'fair play points'.

Goldstick · Post by **Goldstick** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:12 pm

Thanks Elliott, I think HEP isn't the problem. Many are just frustrated with the fair play point aspect of the HEP program. By the way, I appreciate your input and hope to continue to educate many of us with the knowledge you posess.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:20 pm

One of the main thrusts of HEP was to educate parents. Part of this process is Dr. Smoll's books which do a nice job. They are easy to red and very direct. But who reads? Not as many people as I would like. My idea is to put the messages we want in a very concise, short video. MAKE all mite parents watch it when their kids start. New squirts, new peewees watch it. We also give a card (as we do now) to al parents (or better - a poster for every arena). reduce the costs dramatically with reusable info. As for player development - we continue doing (and Hal does a nice job with these) the videos. But also try and bring more people from different areas of the state into making these videos. Then use these videos as a basis for our own CEP programs. From learning to skate to learning forecheck systems. And drills to coincide with these videos. So the CEP training becomes more a sharing of ideas around the basics in the videso. So that everyone is a participant as wellas an instructor. Make the classes more meaningful. I hope I don't get shot. And Buy my book! Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... liott70</A> at: 3/3/06 1:40 pm

tjhd5 · Post by **tjhd5** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:32 pm

when will we relize that hockey is a great game. Let the game sell itself. It surely will do it. We dont have to put a bunch of crap to go along with it, whether it is fair play points, stop patches or a different colored puck,,Jee if these were not all passed i believe i just saved a million dollars, My god does anybody relize the money they have thrown down the toilet... I will be waiting for next Mn Hockey meeting in April and I will bet nothing will get done other than to tthrow some more crap into the pile...

puckboy · Post by **puckboy** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:01 pm

Elliot: Great idea on the short videos. There is no reason they could not then be posted on the minnesota hockey website for people to download and watch. That would save lots of money and make the easily accessible.

livedreamhockey · Post by **livedreamhockey** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:29 pm

Elliot, Couldn't agree more that a bad bi-product of FP points is that you now can have improper seeding of teams in playoffs which may punish teams unfairly and could affect whether a team advances. The game has survived since its inception by having PENALTIES used to punish teams for bad behavior...the worse the penalty, the more time the team must play without that player. What's wrong with keeping the game that simple? I'm okay with the idea of teaching parents/players about some of the basic HEP principles but I personally think the portion of HEP that is spent on testing is a waste of money and valuable ice time. But, at least it doesn't change the purity of the actual game and standings like the FP points has done.

barado23 · Post by **barado23** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:38 pm

Drop the puck and play the old way. All Minnesota hockey did was create more controvery. That takes away from the real problem, Pissing away money on HEP, Stop signs. Maybe we should have stop signs on the back of each skate, each calf, each butt cheek and so on and you still will not cut back on checking from behind. In hockey the game is fast and when I see someone coming to knock me on my keister I am going to shy and turn away. Pimp Daddy is Back!!!!!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/pimp.gif ALT=":hat">

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

FAIR PLAY POINTS

Re: fair play points

Re: fair play points

Re: fair play points

HEP

Re: HEP

HEP

Re: HEP

Re: fair play points

Re: fair play points

fair play point

Re: fair play point

Re: fair play point

fair play

Re: fair play

HEP

Re: HEP

Re: HEP

Re: HEP

Re: HEP

And HEP...

fair play

Re: fair play

Re: HEP

Re: HEP