NE14HKY wrote:131 shots or whatever it was is a little out of hand. Ok maybe, alot out of hand. But when you have a team winning soundly, and playing their third and forth lines, I can guaranty you, that that fourth line is going 100%. Maybe harder. I had the opportunity to be on that fourth line as a freshman. And then on the first line as a junior-senior.
When I actually got a chance to play as a freshman, I didn't care that we were up 10-0. I was getting a chance to play. I wanted to show the coach that I could PLAY. I also realize that there is no I in team.
Now i'm not saying that any of this is "the right thing to do". I'm just looking at it from the player on the fourth line, and she (or he for that matter) is going to give everything they have, whether winning by a dozen or not. JMO
Very good point, and that's why it gets down to the coach making the decisions.
T
Varsity sports are about competition.
Parents need to help their children put things in perspective.
The opposing coach needs to care for the girls on her team and for the team. Especially during play-offs.
Although i agree Marshall did run up the score they pulled their goalie after the 2nd period and she played forward the rest of the game. But they should have never allowed it to get to 17-0.
I'm from Marshall, and I know that 17-0 is bad, but that was 2 years ago. Last year it was 13-1, which I know is still up there... but we did pull our only goalie after the second and we put a forward in goal. Our starting forwards and defense didn't play the 3rd period, we got our younger kids in there because we don't have a JV team. I know it's pretty ridiculous, but the my coach told the redwood coach that we were going to play hard the first and second period. I'm sorry this bothered you, I'm just giving you my explaination.
sregit34 wrote: Although i agree Marshall did run up the score they pulled their goalie after the 2nd period and she played forward the rest of the game. But they should have never allowed it to get to 17-0.
katie_lyn17 wrote:I'm from Marshall, and I know that 17-0 is bad, but that was 2 years ago. Last year it was 13-1, which I know is still up there... but we did pull our only goalie after the second and we put a forward in goal. Our starting forwards and defense didn't play the 3rd period, we got our younger kids in there because we don't have a JV team. I know it's pretty ridiculous, but the my coach told the redwood coach that we were going to play hard the first and second period. I'm sorry this bothered you, I'm just giving you my explaination.
Well, you sure thought about that response for a while now, didn't ya?
You probably can let it go and get some sleep now
One of the biggest factor in Girls quitting sports is unequality between teams. It is embarrassing to lose 17-0. It simply isn't fun for the winner or the loser when the score is 17-0. There is no reason for this! The way the MSHSL divides AA, A and conferences needs to be completely overhauled for EVERY sport! CCSC soccer (club soccer) ALWAYS has close exciting games! WHY???? very very simple. First there is 4 levels of play by ability of team, NOT where you geographically reside or some whim of the section metro realignments!
next, within those 4 levels, if your team wins 75% or more of their games, they are automatically bumped up a level the following year. If you lose 75% or more you are bumped down. Then they get the teams at the correct levels, and within that, divide geographically! Yes, kids graduate etc. but for the most part, in 6 years oc CCSC soccer, I have YET to witness a blowout game...except when teams enter tourneys NOT at the correct level. Thats when you know you are a C level team when you lose 23-0 to a A level team and haven't lost a game at C level but they have all been 1 goal games! Doesn't this make sence? I know it would require some work, but not that much!
It is a complete JOKE tha you should be AA simply becuase you go to a big school, there are A level schools that are not challenged one bit. My friends daughter was goalie of one of the top A teams and had a game with ZERO shots on goal. HOW fun is that???
Yes, I am going to get an argument about driving too far etc. BUT you do the best you can with conferences once the playing levels are determined. Stay as close as possible.
Also, I think if a coach knows his team is that superior, why on earth doesn't he play the JV team? or bring up 10 JV players for the game.
elliott70 wrote:There is nothing wrong with these coaches.
Varsity sports are about competition.
Parents need to help their children put things in perspective.
The opposing coach needs to care for the girls on her team and for the team. Especially during play-offs.
You must be from up North because you are a smart man. Development and learing is at the youth level. You can't tell top athletes not to try hard, we have enough of those playing professional sports. I'm sure they let off the pedal, but sometimes it just doesn't matter. Any shot you throw at the net goes in.
How do you think a losing team feels when all the leading team does is play keep away. I think that's as much of an insult if not more than getting scored on.
It's like owning a three-legged race horse. Would you enter him in the Kentucky Derby? Or would you tell the other owners to have their jockeys ride backwards so his horse would stand a chance? Some would tell you to put the horse out of it's misery or better yet, start breeding a new horse. At the high school level, it's considered being in the "real world".
The only way to stop scoring is to stop shooting. At what point should a coach evoke this rule? Should the rule be different for play-offs than for the in-season game?
One way to incentivize coaches to avoid blowout scores would be to invoke a 3 point limit per player to show up in the players stats whenever the goal differential is greater than a certain amount.
Instead of blaming the current coach, it would be more appropriate to blame the youth coaches. They are the one's who helped develop the skills and instill the drive to win. If they didn't work so hard at the youth level, we could keep everyone at the same mediocre level. Things wouldn't get out of hand then. it's easier and less political to coach mediocracy anyways!
The teams I've coached play one way... To the best of their ability. When play seems to be one sided we work on certain aspects of the game, give the younger players more ice, run second / third power play and pentalty kill, and switch forward / defense personel.
Everyone's taken a beating at one time or another. It's a part of organized sports.
There have been some good suggestions above to align teams but that is all political.
About a decade ago I was coaching Babe Ruth baseball (15 & 14 year olds).
We made a trip south to the metro.
Our first game we went up by 11 after 3 innings.
I went to the other teams coach and before I could speak he said, "Don't quit playing, becasue we are not going to quit." Patted me on the back and both teams kept playing hard. The other coach kept coaching/teaching and patting his kids on the back. Game over, kids shook hands, everyone had a smile on their face.
In the seventh (last) inning we stopped stealing, but every kid went to the plate trying to get a hit. And the other team kept trying to get us out.
Keeping it fun is part of the coaches job and certainly a parents job.
elliott70 wrote:About a decade ago I was coaching Babe Ruth baseball (15 & 14 year olds).
We made a trip south to the metro.
Our first game we went up by 11 after 3 innings.
I went to the other teams coach and before I could speak he said, "Don't quit playing, becasue we are not going to quit." Patted me on the back and both teams kept playing hard. The other coach kept coaching/teaching and patting his kids on the back. Game over, kids shook hands, everyone had a smile on their face.
In the seventh (last) inning we stopped stealing, but every kid went to the plate trying to get a hit. And the other team kept trying to get us out.
Keeping it fun is part of the coaches job and certainly a parents job.
And here is one of the kids gloves thrown at elliott after the beating
elliott70 wrote:About a decade ago I was coaching Babe Ruth baseball (15 & 14 year olds).
We made a trip south to the metro.
Our first game we went up by 11 after 3 innings.
I went to the other teams coach and before I could speak he said, "Don't quit playing, becasue we are not going to quit." Patted me on the back and both teams kept playing hard. The other coach kept coaching/teaching and patting his kids on the back. Game over, kids shook hands, everyone had a smile on their face.
In the seventh (last) inning we stopped stealing, but every kid went to the plate trying to get a hit. And the other team kept trying to get us out.
Keeping it fun is part of the coaches job and certainly a parents job.
And here is one of the kids gloves thrown at elliott after the beating
There is an example a little more relevant and certainly more recent than the Babe Ruth example. Last year, in the quest for a state title at the U12B level, Osseo Maple Grove made a top U12B team out of the skaters they had at this level. They took the top U12B skaters (those that didn't make the A team) and BOTH U12B goalies they had and put them on this top team.the stated rationale was that they had several new skaters and their better U12B skaters shouldn't have to play with these girls. Minnesota Hockey allowed this, or at least, did nothing to prevent it.
Anyway, it soon got known around the league that teams could run up the score on this team and practice scoring. Most teams did. The closest game was a 4-0 loss to a Wayzata team. Wayzata got up by four goals early in the first period. The Wayzata coach then must have told his girls to stop shooting. Although Wayzata controlled the play, they did nothing more than pass the puck to one another. There wasn't a single shot on goal for the Wayzata team. Every once in a while, the Wayzata team would miss a pass and the OMG team would get control of the puck and make a break for the other end. The Wayzata team would back check, take the puck away and start their passing routine again. When the final buzzer sounded, the team that was cheering the loudest was the OMG team. In fact, you would have thought they just won a state championship. The Wayzata team also went off the ice smiling.
For the rest of the story, the top OMG U12B team went on to take 3rd in state, the only OMG team to do make it that far that season. The girls on that were on that team like to crow about their success. I wonder who the real winners were. In my book it was the girls on the second U12B team that kept showing up game after game and who did the very best they could despite the situation created for them by their association
The three legged horse would feel good about running against donkeys, too. If we all look hard enough, we can find a level of competition that makes us feel good. Too bad we build teams to win. Maybe if they ever legalize over the counter Prozac, we can all feel good regardless of the outcome!
bigred wrote:One of the biggest factor in Girls quitting sports is unequality between teams. It is embarrassing to lose 17-0. It simply isn't fun for the winner or the loser when the score is 17-0. There is no reason for this! The way the MSHSL divides AA, A and conferences needs to be completely overhauled for EVERY sport! CCSC soccer (club soccer) ALWAYS has close exciting games! WHY???? very very simple. First there is 4 levels of play by ability of team, NOT where you geographically reside or some whim of the section metro realignments!
next, within those 4 levels, if your team wins 75% or more of their games, they are automatically bumped up a level the following year. If you lose 75% or more you are bumped down. Then they get the teams at the correct levels, and within that, divide geographically! Yes, kids graduate etc. but for the most part, in 6 years oc CCSC soccer, I have YET to witness a blowout game...except when teams enter tourneys NOT at the correct level. Thats when you know you are a C level team when you lose 23-0 to a A level team and haven't lost a game at C level but they have all been 1 goal games! Doesn't this make sence? I know it would require some work, but not that much!
It is a complete JOKE tha you should be AA simply becuase you go to a big school, there are A level schools that are not challenged one bit. My friends daughter was goalie of one of the top A teams and had a game with ZERO shots on goal. HOW fun is that???
Yes, I am going to get an argument about driving too far etc. BUT you do the best you can with conferences once the playing levels are determined. Stay as close as possible.
Also, I think if a coach knows his team is that superior, why on earth doesn't he play the JV team? or bring up 10 JV players for the game.
Well based on this thought plane, why not we switch players if one team gets ahead by three goals during the game? Do I think 17 goals in a game is too many? Absolutely. Their coach only proved he's a complete moron, and what comes around goes around. But keep this in mind, most schools around the bubble were given the choice of whether they wanted to compete in class A or class AA. And I believe every couple of years they get the choice of whether they want to continue or change. Regarding your JV team playing the game, what a brilliant comment. Are you kidding me? Go back to soccer.
Why go through the hassle of swapping players during a game. Wouldn't it be easier just to swap jerseys after every goal. Just think about it, that 17-0 game would now be 9-8 as long as the goals went to the appropriate "team". It would end up as no worse than a one goal game EVERY time. Let's stick to this plan, it keeps the games close and the hardworking girls can continue to do what they do best!
Valley Eggroll wrote:Why go through the hassle of swapping players during a game. Wouldn't it be easier just to swap jerseys after every goal. Just think about it, that 17-0 game would now be 9-8 as long as the goals went to the appropriate "team". It would end up as no worse than a one goal game EVERY time. Let's stick to this plan, it keeps the games close and the hardworking girls can continue to do what they do best!
And everybody gets one of those really cool "participant" ribbons after every game.
Its why running time was developed, think about it . If running time is not enough to control this.Then only one thing remains to question. 1) why was the game scheduled 2) If the other team is that deficient why would they schedule the game? recently cast in to this situation, We went way up early.This was in a tournament with no control over who we played and knew nothing of any of the teams really.After 2 it was like 9 - 0
Changed lines 11- rip, D to forward,12 rip 5 passes before shooting, 15-rip Ultimatly I took a time out and said quit scoring it was 17 rip final .
We payed to play in that game. I think you can see we took every apprecaible effort to not embarrass anyone this was at a much older age level as well so dont be too quick to judge the coaches intentions sometimes _**** happens .
Instead of blaming the winning coach, why not lay some blame on the losing coach. Maybe more time spent on fundamentals would help. You can't blame a team for performing well. If he was making them pass and move the puck and switching kids around, he did his job. Yeah, it's no fun to lose a lopsided game. It happens. It makes you want to bounce back and get them back.
Turning the 4th line lose on somebody is definitely not running up the score. It builds them up for the future. That's their shot and they usually know it.
I've personally seen a team get beat 15 - 0 at home in their first game of the season and then go to the other teams barn in their @ 15th game and although the team still lost they were playing a 2 - 1 game with less than 5 minutes left before finally losing 3 - 1. It may not have been a win but it was a moral victory. The point being is teams can improve drastically if they work hard and buy into the coaches philosophy.
At what time should a team "get out" of the sport? Girls hockey is coming of age enough to understand that some programs just "don't have what it takes" to compete either developmentally or in numbers. Because of title IX do we keep playing because we have been "given the right" to play? These 10 girls or so may just provide the basketball team the athletes it's program needs to compete. Sad but true, all the options can water down all sports.
At the high school level, it's considered being in the "real world".
