Task Force 34 wrote:I've heard that the 97 and 99 teams will play this year but that the 98 team did not return enough players to field a competitive team.
2000 team also fell apart. MN kids could not get grandfathered into WAHA under their new rules.
Would of been a great team. MN/USA hockey is really holding MN kids back from their full potential.
Task Force 34 wrote:I've heard that the 97 and 99 teams will play this year but that the 98 team did not return enough players to field a competitive team.
2000 team also fell apart. MN kids could not get grandfathered into WAHA under their new rules.
Would of been a great team. MN/USA hockey is really holding MN kids back from their full potential.
I think WAHA had more to do with wanting this rule change than did MN Hockey.
How do you bench a kid for a year for seeking out something that is a better fit for their personal situation. I emphasize "better fit for their personal situation" because they are not trying to harm anyone or say "hey I am better than you", they are simply seeking out an option that allows them a different experience than what MN Hockey currently allows.
I'm really struggling with a penalty this harsh, or for that matter any penalty at all, especially if MN Hockey is not up front about it.
Task Force 34 wrote:How do you bench a kid for a year for seeking out something that is a better fit for their personal situation. I emphasize "better fit for their personal situation" because they are not trying to harm anyone or say "hey I am better than you",
they are simply seeking out an option that allows them a different experience than what MN Hockey currently allows.
I'm really struggling with a penalty this harsh, or for that matter any penalty at all, especially if MN Hockey is not up front about it.
The key wording in this new rule set by MNHockey is that if you reside in MN and want to play out of state, you must find a program that is not offered here in the state, i.e. Tier 1 hockey. The Fire falls into a weird catagory since they lost their Tier 1 status, to my knowledge they are not even classified as an association, they are "unclassified", whatever that means.
Can someone tell me what different experience the Fire exposes kids to, except the obvious $25,000 price tag? I know the 98 Fire from last year had a pretty rough season losing several games to larger MN associations peewee A teams.
I wouldn't compare the 98 Fire team to a PeeWee A team. The PeeWee A teams they played rosterer mostly 97 players, unless there were a lot of talented 98 players on those teams. I don't know. To answer your question about the fascination with playing AAA like Fire kids do is quite easy. Why does MN play AAA hockey in the Spring/Summer? To get the chance to play against other kids your same birth year from different parts of the country. There is something cool about playing teams like Little Caesars, Compuware, Victory Honda, Chicago Mission, St. Louis Jr. Blues, South Shore Kings, Colorado Thunderbirds to name just a few. My son has played a number of years against teams like those and the competition through the years just gets better and better. I am not taking anything away from MN hockey and the heritage it has. I would love for my son to play Minnesota HS hockey when he gets to that age, but Winter AAA is a lot of fun, if not more than Summer/Spring. IMO
CMR,
Since all of the Fire players were registered in Wisconsin I would think the coaches of the teams they were on would have an easier time. Not necessarily all Mn residents that might be playing on a Wisconsin team played for the fire, as there were Wis. residents that probably played on a Mn team. n Hockey should have also sent the information to the associations and also had the District Directors also make contact with the associations. I would believe that some DD's have already informed their associations of the new policy.
On another note this is not new and many other areas are also complaining. Illinois complained about out of state players taking spots on their Tier I teams and Alaska complained about their residents being recruited to play for other state's teams.This was in the Affiliate Presidents meeting for USA Hockey a few years ago.
[quote="Task Force 34"]What's the new policy? Everything I see says "DRAFT"
When will something be posted on MN Hockey website in final form?
FYI - Associations are in the dark on this one too....[/quote]
it sounds like associations do not need to be informed of this as it is at a higher level. One would figure that next year the association would get informed with the " johnny q on your pw b team is not eligible this season due to our policy'
Task Force 34 wrote:What's the new policy? Everything I see says "DRAFT"
When will something be posted on MN Hockey website in final form?
FYI - Associations are in the dark on this one too....
Everyone I've talked to said it's a done deal and to be enforced starting this year, but obviously it will effect players starting a year from now. Why it still says "Draft" on the transfer form I don't know.
enough with all this talk about the fire. The fire are all done. Unless they can get to Tier 1 with kids from Wisconsin.
Let focus our discussion on the the thousands of kids that play in minnesota rather then 30 or 40 kids that want to leave mn hockey. Perhaps this topic should be moved to the wisc. forums.
Elk River Pres, You should care about these 30-40 kids and what this would mean to kids playing hockey in Minnesota.
Not all kids out there come from associations such as yours or Edina or Wayzata. Alot of the Fire players came from small associations where their "A association team mates" hadn't had skates on in over a year and they could count on winning only 3-4 games a year. Not that it doesn't teach your kid good lessons like being a good loser,etc. But some of these kids and families wanted more for themselves without having to buy a house in Edina. The Fire has been successful in developing these kids and some very talented kids from Wisconsin too. See how the 95 Fire boys are doing at SSM and Hill Murray and tell me that we would be better off without the Fire.
It is just what MN hockey has always wanted. . . a way to end the Fire. They don't want AAA winter hockey in MN like it is in EVERY OTHER STATE IN THE NATION! Because what would they do then? They might have to look at their system and realize that it is not the only way to develop players.
The loss of the Fire is a huge loss for Minnesota hockey even for the good ol boys as it takes away our choices. Too bad.
You nailed it. Many of the kids on the 97 team are from smaller associations who struggle to field a true A team let alone an A team and multiple B and C teams.
I think this issue has gotten personal between certain individuals and the kids will be the ones that will suffer the loss. Its too bad because the Fire is a well respected program most everywhere else.
I'm just not seeing how strong arming less than 100 kids is going to help the more than 40,000 other kids. I see this having a ripple effect, motivating others to take up arms against the system. It may just accelerate the outcome that MNH is so deperately trying to avoid.
Nice. So not only does erpres get to deal with disgruntled parents that have to drag their kids back to the association, but he'll also get to answer phone calls from a dozen sets of parents that think their boy was bumped to the B1 team because those kids are back.
hockeyoldtimer wrote:Elk River Pres, You should care about these 30-40 kids and what this would mean to kids playing hockey in Minnesota.
Not all kids out there come from associations such as yours or Edina or Wayzata. Alot of the Fire players came from small associations where their "A association team mates" hadn't had skates on in over a year and they could count on winning only 3-4 games a year. Not that it doesn't teach your kid good lessons like being a good loser,etc. But some of these kids and families wanted more for themselves without having to buy a house in Edina. The Fire has been successful in developing these kids and some very talented kids from Wisconsin too. See how the 95 Fire boys are doing at SSM and Hill Murray and tell me that we would be better off without the Fire.
It is just what MN hockey has always wanted. . . a way to end the Fire. They don't want AAA winter hockey in MN like it is in EVERY OTHER STATE IN THE NATION! Because what would they do then? They might have to look at their system and realize that it is not the only way to develop players.
The loss of the Fire is a huge loss for Minnesota hockey even for the good ol boys as it takes away our choices. Too bad.
Another organization that should be sad that the Fire will be disbanded is
WAHA itself. They allowed the Madison Capitals to strong-arm them into unclassifying the Fire at all levels for some infractions at certain age levels. The Caps have historically had a hard time getting past the Fire in their Region to go to the National tournament and with them unclassified they have an easy road past the Milwaukee Admirals and The Greenbay Gamblers. Who did they really help? Now they will have no real competition to play and will lose as soon as they get out of their region. WAHA should do something to re-classifiy the Fire again and Minnesota hockey will once again be back to the drawing board for trying to find a loophole to diband the Fire.
InigoMontoya wrote:I'm just not seeing how strong arming less than 100 kids is going to help the more than 40,000 other kids. I see this having a ripple effect, motivating others to take up arms against the system. It may just accelerate the outcome that MNH is so deperately trying to avoid.
IM, I agree with you.
Nothing will happen this year given the timing, but this could motivate others to bypass MNH entirely. I could envision a motivated group locking up ice somewhere in the northern suburbs and running a program for squirt through bantam age. They could even pitch some inter-program scrimmages with the Choice League if MM was open to the idea. It wouldn't take much to start a snowball effect in the metro area.
InigoMontoya wrote:I'm just not seeing how strong arming less than 100 kids is going to help the more than 40,000 other kids. I see this having a ripple effect, motivating others to take up arms against the system. It may just accelerate the outcome that MNH is so deperately trying to avoid.
IM, I agree with you.
Nothing will happen this year given the timing, but this could motivate others to bypass MNH entirely. I could envision a motivated group locking up ice somewhere in the northern suburbs and running a program for squirt through bantam age. They could even pitch some inter-program scrimmages with the Choice League if MM was open to the idea. It wouldn't take much to start a snowball effect in the metro area.
I wouldn't be surprised if that happened at all....in fact, I'm sure it will happen; whether it be Legacy, STE or someone else.
Task Force 34 wrote:
Can someone tell me what different experience the Fire exposes kids to, except the obvious $25,000 price tag? I know the 98 Fire from last year had a pretty rough season losing several games to larger MN associations peewee A teams.
$25,000? Is that really the cost to play for the Fire? I don't have a problem with it, not judging, just curious if that is the real cost.
Task Force 34 wrote:
Can someone tell me what different experience the Fire exposes kids to, except the obvious $25,000 price tag? I know the 98 Fire from last year had a pretty rough season losing several games to larger MN associations peewee A teams.
$25,000? Is that really the cost to play for the Fire? I don't have a problem with it, not judging, just curious if that is the real cost.
No, take off a zero. The '98's might have been a little higher since they chose to play more out of town (fly to destinations) tourneys. $25,000 was posted by someone without a clue.
Task Force 34 wrote:How do you bench a kid for a year for seeking out something that is a better fit for their personal situation. I emphasize "better fit for their personal situation" because they are not trying to harm anyone or say "hey I am better than you",
they are simply seeking out an option that allows them a different experience than what MN Hockey currently allows.
I'm really struggling with a penalty this harsh, or for that matter any penalty at all, especially if MN Hockey is not up front about it.
The key wording in this new rule set by MNHockey is that if you reside in MN and want to play out of state, you must find a program that is not offered here in the state, i.e. Tier 1 hockey. The Fire falls into a weird catagory since they lost their Tier 1 status, to my knowledge they are not even classified as an association, they are "unclassified", whatever that means.
Can someone tell me what different experience the Fire exposes kids to, except the obvious $25,000 price tag? I know the 98 Fire from last year had a pretty rough season losing several games to larger MN associations peewee A teams.
High Off the GRASS, have you been smoking again! 25k? "...losing several games to larger MN associations peewee A teams"? I am having a hard time determining which is farther from the truth. Here is a hint, http://myhockeyrankings.com/team_info.php?y=2009&t=1080
Task Force 34 wrote:
Can someone tell me what different experience the Fire exposes kids to, except the obvious $25,000 price tag? I know the 98 Fire from last year had a pretty rough season losing several games to larger MN associations peewee A teams.
$25,000? Is that really the cost to play for the Fire? I don't have a problem with it, not judging, just curious if that is the real cost.
From parents on the 98 team that I've talked with. $10-$11,000 is what they spent of Fire hockey last year (flights, hotels, meals, ice time, tourney fees, rental cars, gasoline). $25,000 seems way "high of the glass".
MN/USA hockey is really holding MN kids back from their full potential.
Well said hockeyoldtimer!