Major Juniors vs. MN high school coach's assoc. - 2/26 Strib

[D3Referee]

This family made a commitment to play at bsm this season!! Correct?? Then this family should have waited til the season was over to go visit. I am assuming they will still be playing in mid march. So after the bsm season has concluded a visit should be scheduled. End of conversation people!

End of conversation? Really? Yet Pauley says he would have been fine going to visit Wisconsin or Notre Dame mid-season. So, what's the difference? Why shouldn't he have to wait to visit them as well till after BSM was done?

The ONLY difference is that Pauley doesn't personally agree with the Major Junior route. That's fine for him to hold that position, but forcing his beliefs on others and using his power over the boy to make his point is crossing a line.

[bemused]

To acknowledge that KP is the head of the coach's association and then suggest that he shouldn't have an opinion about Canadian major juniors is just silly. Especially since he's also a coach/teacher at a college prep school.

If the MHSCA doesn't have a "mission" to sit around and argue about and write a position paper on, then what's the point of these coaches' associations anyway?

The USNTDP actually has a pay-back/buyout policy. If the WHL or any other Canadian major junior wants one of their players, they are free to go... but their parents are on the hook for about $50K. (Of course, the majors respond by paying that penalty on behalf of the player, but they have to want that player pretty badly. And most of the NTDP kids are college-minded kids anyway who have already passed on the opportunity to play major juniors.)

Never heard of the buyout, but through the years many players have went the major junior route from ann arbor. Would be interested in seeing an accurate number on how many players left? As for college minded players, I would bet the majority of the ann arbor kids are thinking NHL.

This year's number 1 pick in the draft plays Major Junior and played in Ann Arbor last year.

[SWPrez]

So its fair to ask....

What do people think about BSM last year where a player missed 10 days of the season to skate with a USA team (definitely a 'lifetime experience' for the kid), returned for the end of the year, and then ditched BSM for the NDTP after getting nice sophomore elite league time and frankly, varsity development time while 'walk-on' seniors (whose parents had regularly made their tuition payments) were cut from the team to make room for this player (and Baer this year)?

The loyalty door swings both ways and players ditching after getting early perks is going to be the norm. I support Pauly's position that he took on Baer. I think he should of taken it last year, too.

Should a distinction be made between those using the program to go NTDP path or those using the WHL and using BSM's game exposure, elite league perks, to springboard to the next big thing?

[Stick Save]

Expressly allowed to visit major junior Canadian teams. Really? It actually says that.

This family made a commitment to play at bsm this season!! Correct?? Then this family should have waited til the season was over to go visit. I am assuming they will still be playing in mid march. So after the bsm season has concluded a visit should be scheduled. End of conversation people!

Yes he wasn't making this choice but his parents and I guarantee an advisor were. Those are the people that need to start using their head. Advisors could care less about the kid, all they see is $$ signs.

Send in the trolls...

[D3Referee]

Should a distinction be made between those using the program to go NTDP path or those using the WHL and using BSM's game exposure, elite league perks, to springboard to the next big thing?

Or those using a public high school like St. Louis Park to get elite perks like playing as an 8th grader so one springboard to a stacked Private school to take a run at State? Would Pauley approve of such an opportunistic player/family?

[scorekeeper]

This family made a commitment to play at bsm this season!! Correct?? Then this family should have waited til the season was over to go visit. I am assuming they will still be playing in mid march. So after the bsm season has concluded a visit should be scheduled. End of conversation people!

End of conversation? Really? Yet Pauley says he would have been fine going to visit Wisconsin or Notre Dame mid-season. So, what's the difference? Why shouldn't he have to wait to visit them as well till after BSM was done?

The ONLY difference is that Pauley doesn't personally agree with the Major Junior route. That's fine for him to hold that position, but forcing his beliefs on others and using his power over the boy to make his point is crossing a line.

Right. What if Benilde junior decides he's interested in a trade, maybe becoming an electrician. So he calls in one day that he'll be missing classes to go visit a trade school - see if he might be interested.

His math teacher doesn't approve of this path for his gifted math student. In his opinion students should focus on a 4 year college degree and not waste his time in trade school.

Should the math teacher throw a hissy fit and kick the student out of school for missing a class?

I could see the published interview now;

"I don't think we're trying to send a message to Trade schools of, 'Don't come into our backyard,' " said the math teacher, and president of the Minnesota Math Teachers Association. "But we want it to come through loud and clear what we are about, what the high school experience is about and continuing to stand by those things."

Speaking as the president of the math teachers group, the math teacher said: "A trip to a college is in keeping with the overall mission and vision of high school mathematics. I don't believe the Trade Schools and Minnesota high school model are complementary pieces."

[Doc Holliday]

SWPrez: I think what bothers some is the inconsistency. I think people may think it's an overreaction to boot a player off a team, but would still find it consistent if he did the same thing if he had visited a USHL club or Ann Arbor.

At least that's how I see it.

[MNHockeyFan]

Should a distinction be made between those using the program to go NTDP path or those using the WHL and using BSM's game exposure, elite league perks, to springboard to the next big thing?

Or those using a public high school like St. Louis Park to get elite perks like playing as an 8th grader so one springboard to a stacked Private school to take a run at State? Would Pauley approve of such an opportunistic player/family?

Apples and oranges! Enrolling at a high school of your choice as a 9th grader (whether public or private) vs. going to Canada to play professional hockey! If he flops up there he can never play high school or college here again.

[MNHockeyFan]

Right. What if Benilde junior decides he's interested in a trade, maybe becoming an electrician. So he calls in one day that he'll be missing classes to go visit a trade school - see if he might be interested.

His math teacher doesn't approve of this path for his gifted math student. In his opinion students should focus on a 4 year college degree and not waste his time in trade school.

Should the math teacher throw a hissy fit and kick the student out of school for missing a class?

Pauly did not kick him out of school - he still goes there!

[D3Referee]

Should a distinction be made between those using the program to go NTDP path or those using the WHL and using BSM's game exposure, elite league perks, to springboard to the next big thing?

Or those using a public high school like St. Louis Park to get elite perks like playing as an 8th grader so one springboard to a stacked Private school to take a run at State? Would Pauley approve of such an opportunistic player/family?

Apples and oranges! Enrolling at a high school of your choice as a 9th grader (whether public or private) vs. going to Canada to play professional hockey! If he flops up there he can never play high school or college here again.

Who cares about playing high school hockey here if you can play Major Junior hockey? And if he flops up there he wasn't going to play D1 hockey anyways.

This isn't about what's ging to happen in Baers future. This is ENIERLY about competing interests. Pauley doesn't want to COMPETE with Major Juniors for high school age kids, but he doesn't mind recruiting high school age kids from other Minnesota high schools. He is trying to have his cake and eat it to. It's that simple.

[scorekeeper]

Right. What if Benilde junior decides he's interested in a trade, maybe becoming an electrician. So he calls in one day that he'll be missing classes to go visit a trade school - see if he might be interested.

His math teacher doesn't approve of this path for his gifted math student. In his opinion students should focus on a 4 year college degree and not waste his time in trade school.

Should the math teacher throw a hissy fit and kick the student out of school for missing a class?

Pauly did not kick him out of school - he still goes there!

Save the eye rolls. Would it help if I stated "kick him out of math class".

The point is the same

Pick your genre ... band, hockey, match, drama ... whatever. So if the adult in charge of the program doesn't agree with the "career path" chosen by the student, he should ban him from the program? Really?

[my2cents]

The bigger question to me is: What the he## kind of parents send their 15 or 16 year old away from home for hockey? I don't care if it's WHL, USHL, Shattuck, Team USA or other. I know that there can be family reasons to do so, but you'd think that those cases would be rare.

Raising my kids is more important than raising my hockey playing kids.

[D3Referee]

The bigger question to me is: What the he## kind of parents send their 15 or 16 year old away from home for hockey? I don't care if it's WHL, USHL, Shattuck, Team USA or other. I know that there can be family reasons to do so, but you'd think that those cases would be rare.

Raising my kids is more important than raising my hockey playing kids.

Private schools, military schools etc. around the world of chalk full of kids younger than that who live away from home full time. Talented musicians, atheletes, academics etc. and just plain old rich people send their kids away for 8-10 months at a time and have for 100's of years.

Do Shattuck parents fall under your category "What the he## kind of parents"?

[Stick Save]

The bigger question to me is: What the he## kind of parents send their 15 or 16 year old away from home for hockey? I don't care if it's WHL, USHL, Shattuck, Team USA or other. I know that there can be family reasons to do so, but you'd think that those cases would be rare.

Raising my kids is more important than raising my hockey playing kids.

Bravo. Another parent who cares more. So my guess is your hockey playing kids haven't received their invite to the WHL, USHL, Shattuck or Team USA yet. And when they do it sounds like it will be a much easier decision for you. But please keep us posted. Because like you, we may know far better than you, what decision you should make.

Just My2Cents

[Lowstickside]

A few things;
Did BSM dicipline the two kids who went to the NTDP last year when they visited, had tryouts, or missed any school? There is a pretty extensive process which had to have taken some time away from the team. Also, the team knew they were leaving so did they sit the bench the rest of the year?

Does anyone realize that USA Hockey took a player from the Quebec Major Hockey Junior league and put him on the Five Nations U.S.A. team that went to Europe last fall. a U.S. citizen, yes, but not a member of U.S.A. Hockey until very shortly before tournament time.

If the kid from BSM goes to the "dub", totally lights it up for the rest of the season, and then came back to participate in the MN selects process, he would be cut right away. Why? Because he left.

[greybeard58]

Another part of the article I find troubling is that the former executive director of the Mn Hockey coaches association after being talked to for an hour by a person high up in MN and USA Hockey resigned because his own son made the same choice and now the USA Hockey person is also the executive director of the coaches association. I guess if you do not dance to their music you better leave.
The fall elite league used to do a good job of keeping players from leaving high school earlier years ago but as usual ego's get involved and some people get a chance to make promises and get either extra money or influence over players and parents and other coaches are afraid to do what is right. Maybe it is time to follow the money.

[celly93]

Some things to remember:

-There is no "E" in Pauly.

-His name is not Alex, it's Alec (we had some problems with that in the last thread).

-As far as I know, there is no right to play high school sports, no matter how talented a player is. With most teams, it is up to the coach to assemble the right players. Herb Brooks' philosophy was that he wanted the right players, not the best ones. If a coach doesn't think a player is buying into what the team is doing and might have his head somewhere else, then the coach doesn't have to keep him. With that said, Pauly did put him on the team, which sounds like a commitment, but if Baer wasn't committed, then I guess they're both at fault.

-Alec Baer never attended St. Louis Park High School.

-That said, Baer wasn't the only underclassman to leave the SLP system this season for another high school, so it might be more of an SLP problem than a BSM recruiting situation.

[Mailman]

The bigger question to me is: What the he## kind of parents send their 15 or 16 year old away from home for hockey? I don't care if it's WHL, USHL, Shattuck, Team USA or other. I know that there can be family reasons to do so, but you'd think that those cases would be rare.

Raising my kids is more important than raising my hockey playing kids.

[SnowedIn]

"afraid to do what is right?"

What is right? Who decides this?

I'd say do your research, think through the ramifications of each option and decision and then go with what you feel is right. Then go for it and never look back. As for everyone else's opinions and judgements. Who cares

[forcerocks]

facts are facts and maybe everyone made an error

everyone has lost sight of an important thing

freedom to chose their next path in their career

BCHL - sends lots of kids to NCAA however other than Zajac not much high end talent

NAHL - OK league but really very few pros come from that league

USHL - Much stronger and great for sending players to NCAA

WHL - OHL - Still the leaders in providing NHL talent

Now for the people concerned about players losing the chance to play NCAA and get an education the WHL does provide this for players after their career is over

http://www.vancouvergiants.com/comm_edu

This does cast a dark shadow on the decision making at BSM when you consider the SEX TAPE Maple Grove situation. Can you honestly compare missing a practice for this sex tape.

[scorekeeper]

The bigger question to me is: What the he## kind of parents send their 15 or 16 year old away from home for hockey?

There are many. Here's just a few that pop to mind off the top of my head;

Mr. & Mrs. Don Lucia
Mr. & Mrs. Marty Nanne
Mr. & Mrs. Jon Bittner
Mr. & Mrs. Lance Pitlick
Mr. & Mrs. Crosbey (Syney's parents)
Mr. & Mrs. Martin Broduer
Mr. & Mrs. Greenway (Jordan & JD's parents)
Mr. & Mrs. Cammaratta (Taylor's parents)
Mr. & Mrs. Mackinnon (Nathan's parents)

I'm not sure what your implication is? Are you saying these are bad parents?

[MNHockeyFan]

Who cares about playing high school hockey here if you can play Major Junior hockey?

Who cares? The vast majority still care enough to stay here.

And if he flops up there he wasn't going to play D1 hockey anyways.

This is patently false, and you should know it. It is a HUGE jump for a slightly built 15 year-old to make it in major juniors vs. staying in high school, playing three more years and then possibly a year in the USHL and THEN going D1. The difference between the two paths is night and day.

This isn't about what's ging to happen in Baers future. This is ENIERLY about competing interests. Pauley doesn't want to COMPETE with Major Juniors for high school age kids, but he doesn't mind recruiting high school age kids from other Minnesota high schools. He is trying to have his cake and eat it to. It's that simple.

Sorry, I don't see this as a public/private school matter. The kid could have just as easily left a public school and that public school coach could have taken the same action as Pauly. There is an inherent conflict with high school and professional hockey, which may explain why Crookston's coach (Jon Bittner) resigned from the MHCA after his kid left.

[Stick Save]

Just heard that the reporter of this article will be on with Patrick Reusse in about 10 minutes on AM 1500 to discuss further.

http://www.1500espn.com/structurefiles/ ... _popup.php

[D3Referee]

Who cares about playing high school hockey here if you can play Major Junior hockey?

Who cares? The vast majority still care enough to stay here.

And if he flops up there he wasn't going to play D1 hockey anyways.

This is patently false, and you should know it. It is a HUGE jump for a slightly built 15 year-old to make it in major juniors vs. staying in high school, playing three more years and then possibly a year in the USHL and THEN going D1. The difference between the two paths is night and day.

This isn't about what's ging to happen in Baers future. This is ENIERLY about competing interests. Pauley doesn't want to COMPETE with Major Juniors for high school age kids, but he doesn't mind recruiting high school age kids from other Minnesota high schools. He is trying to have his cake and eat it to. It's that simple.

Sorry, I don't see this as a public/private school matter. The kid could have just as easily left a public school and that public school coach could have taken the same action as Pauly. There is an inherent conflict with high school and professional hockey, which may explain why Crookston's coach (Jon Bittner) resigned from the MHCA after his kid left.

You're really reaching here. The vast majority of Minnesota kids stay for high school hockey because for the vast majority - the vast Vast VAST majority - - that's their only option.

On your second point. The WHL doesn't judge kids on their 15 year old season. Most aren't expected to play till they are 17, but the really good ones, like Alec, get an early opportunity. He'll have 3 years education in his jeans before they decide if he's a bust or not. If he's a bust at that point, then he wasn't going to play D1 hockey anyways, so it doesn't matter. The only difference is, he has 3 years education in his pocket that wouldn't have had otherwise.

On the third point, it is a COMPETITION for talent issue. I have spoke with many public high school coaches who are frustrated that they have to compete for their own players with private school recruiters. In fact, if you google it, I believe Pjodein from St. Louis Park expressed his publicly on exactly the kids he lost.

However, they don't get to throw a fit. They have to just sit and watch it happen. The very fact that Pauly - a private school coach - sits as president of the Minnesota High School coaches is akin to letting the Fox run the chicken coop.

He is now angry that he may lose (has lost) one of his players to a competing interest, so he uses his muscle to throw a public temper tantrum and make an example of the boy.

Pjodein didn't get the same opportunity to punish the players for their choices, but I highly doubt he would have if he did.

[HockeySLP]

-That said, Baer wasn't the only underclassman to leave the SLP system this season for another high school, so it might be more of an SLP problem than a BSM recruiting situation.[/quote]

You are right, why would anyone want to continue to play for Shjon Podein, one of the most straight forward honest people in the entire hockey world, let alone Minnesota? Oh, yea he has also put the Stanley Cup over his head in victory!!!!!! Yea, it is an SLP problem? I hope my sarcasm is coming through.

The players who left for supposedly greener pastures:
Alec Baer (kicked off of Benilde), Marshall Tema (left to play Junior, I believe out due to many concussions), and Josh Passolt (went to Maple Grove, part of the MG lovely scandal). Unfortunately for SLP with these 3 players and Graduation we lost 85% of our scoring, but I will say this: I would rather have gone 4-21-1 with kids who want to play for SLP with pride, then the free agents that left. Good luck to them all.