WARNING TO STILLWATER

ghshockeyfan · Post by **ghshockeyfan** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:26 pm

<a href="http://p100.ezboard.com/fmnhsfrm7.showM ...  ghshockeyfan Registered Member Posts: 4154 (1/17/06 2:10 pm) Reply | Edit Re: Eden Prairie the real deal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As time passes, I've seen more and some of my thoughts on all of this have changed/evolved to some degree. I'm quite certain that 99.9% of the players and their families that transfer initiate discussions themselves from what I've heard/seen specifically of the top programs/dynasties transfer-wise in the state so far. Privates are in the same situation, as I used to bash them but they too attract talent based on what they have to offer academically & athletically. Sometimes, for top players especially, or any player it's as much about finding a like mindset/mentality with the majority of a group rather than a small minority. This is another item that I've heard cited in discussions. From what I can tell, the education (mostly) & complete package (including hockey) are the motivation, and it doesn't take a coach initiating for people who do their homework (parents, players, general public, etc.) to understand that this is the case. From what I understand the first great metro G Hockey dynasty was built homegrown almost entirely (Roseville). After this happened, they started to attract some transfers for a while (I call this the Roseville Syndrome), but now - from what I understand - are still very strong drawing on their strong past and having obviously used this to continue to build from within (they overcame the RV Syndrome). The second great metro G Hockey dynasty was pretty much the same way, with only a sprinkling of outside players in the early years, but then predominantly more as the years passed (SSP). We have to recognize though that - like Roseville before them - SSP's best to date have probably been all homegrown, with a few more recent exceptions. The likely third great metro G Hockey dynasty is still in the making, but it too is following a similar path. Started with being predominately home grown, but has started to attract that outside talent as well (EP). As to if they will fulfill the true "dynasty" label remains to be seen, but appears quite likely. There have been some great individuals, and teams, in between these 3, but these stand out as the big three. There appears to be some great similarities relative to the team composition as the years pass in these 3 examples. the trend usually starts with predominantly homegrown top talent, then their dominance attracts other top players from the surrounding areas, and then hopefully the cycle comes full circle as it did at RV when the continued strong play builds tradition and starts to create strong building at the youth ranks from within. What can happen though is that too much outside talent can potentially start to deter younger players from ever feeling like they'll have a shot at the HS team. RV overcame this, if SSP & EP will remains to be seen - and EP also has to face more private school concerns than many realize. EP does have a ton of kids to work with though, plus great economic affluence, so this helps them. SSP is true class A school, so this leaves them with less kids obviously, and also a much different economic and otherwise demographic to work with. I would say that RV is more middle of the road in both these respects. Maybe this helped them come full circle. This all being said, what we're seeing today is nothing new. Heightened awareness? Maybe. But, maybe the issue that we truly have is if has this been "ethical" all along, and recent scores, events, etc. when much more info. is available is just making us all more upset and hypersensitive. There will always be some bad blood between dynasties I think as the passing of the torch is not always an easy thing. Some finger pointing is happening, and I think that's to be expected. What would help is some way of addressing the score differential and how teams can ethically handle these situations. That may minimize the finger pointing, etc. I think I outlined this in another post. Also, to play a little devil's advocate, we have to look at all of this from a flip side view. Is it fair for a top dynasty team to have to sit its players 1-2 periods a game (when they only get 25-30 games a year) due to being so superior? It's an interesting question, but it leads me to a bigger problem... These teams should have the capability of constructing a schedule that will allow them to not have to be in this situation often. That, I believe, is the solution to this and would alleviate a lot of trouble. Some would also argue that the extra section and state games that these top teams get would make up for periods lost due to sitting top players in the regular season - so maybe it's all a wash in the end... Lastly, open enrolment is here to stay. In all three examples above, the HS's are OUTSTANDING academically. The coaches are outstanding (and likely helped indirectly attract kids through their dedication to, and passion for, the game). The teams are comprised of kids that have a similar mindset and play hockey with a purpose, not just to pass time. Their off-season offerings attract not only the top instructors (including their own coaches), but also the surrounding area top players, which can often lead to recruiting violation claims - when truly they are just trying to offer the best camps/clinics/opportunities/competition in practice/training/scrimmages/games for their kids to better their own programs. Similarly, many of these coaches are said to be dedicating all this time to "recruit" when they do NDP, CODP, AAA, festivals, etc. - when in reality again they just have a sincere passion and investment in making the game great. I've personally been accused of all of this as well - but my recent home grown class A small school team clears my name quickly to a large degree. If I were at EP, SSP, or elsewhere I'd be guilty of every recruiting violation in the book in many eyes I'm sure though as those teams are top teams whose reputation, coaches (indirectly), players, success, and schools have attracted outside players - it's the whole package... Private schools have many of the same concerns as those publics listed above. They usually have top caliber dedicated and passionate coaches. It's no coincidence that many of the top teams (public and/or private) have coaches that are active in year round promotion OF THE SPORT (read as not their team) through various events sponsored by various coaching and sports associations. Their own players often populate these events too, which isn't a surprise as the coach and player seem to share the same dedication and passion for the game in programs with this mindset (top public & private). I think that we all need to be grateful for what all these coaches have done. No, not everyone will like them, and that's to be expected - they will be accused by many too of many things. Thank god they have thick skin and haven't said "to heck with this" for all the crap they take! As without many of the top team coaches we'd be lost as far as support for the sport in general. These coaches have fought hard for women's rights in this sport specifically. There are always a few examples of bad decisions by coaches, but predominantly these are the exception, and not the rule. Let's not forget how little these people are getting compensated as well... Their passion allows for small/little/no payment... That's enough for now, and I truly think that with a little score control a little sooner and better scheduling options (see my earlier post) that we wouldn't have all the drama we do now about transfers, scores, etc. - especially relative to the dynasties of late. Edited by: ghshockeyfan at: 1/17/06 2:37 pm StirTheMix Registered Member Posts: 13 (1/17/06 3:27 pm) Reply Re: Eden Prairie the real deal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- GHS is right that coaches have a lot going on to be doing any recruiting. But it might not take all that much of their time. What is it called when you're at a rink in the offseason, at NDP or CODP or "your name here" off season league game and a coach who is not from your school comes up and puts his arm around your kid, and starts singing the praises of how good she would look in the banana and mauve colors of his school's team? And then the next time you meet in a similar situation he repeats it, and adds, "oh by the way you'll be on a line with Mary Anne Gaborik too"? And then you hear from Mary Anne's parents that he's told them that your daughter will be on Mary Anne's line if he can get your kid to transfer. Is that recruiting or not? And every time you run into that coach it's the same story. xk1 Registered Member Posts: 66 (1/17/06 3:38 pm) Reply Re: Eden Prairie the real deal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I get to post this about 3 times a year, from bylaw 308 of MSHSL "Any verbal or written contact initiated by a representative of another school soliciting the transfer of a high school student or junior high school student to participate in a sport will be considered as asserting undue influence, for which the school may be publicly censured, removed from tournament competition, or suspended from the League." Your example sounds like recruiting but rather than than complain here, call the MSHSL, they could actually do something about it. it takes roughly the same effort as posting. ghshockeyfan Registered Member Posts: 4159 (1/17/06 4:15 pm) Reply | Edit Re: Eden Prairie the real deal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I regularly praise the kids of other programs as they deserve it, not out of desire to recruit - although it is misconstrued as such sometimes I think. Some other coaches do the same. I've seen some top caliber kids that joke often with other team coaches/players/parents/etc. about transferring, playing on a line with player x, etc. I've even seen in person, or in pictures, kids with other team's jerseys, socks, sweatshirts, etc. on - but this is likely as they're all friends with each other (players from other teams) etc. through their off-season play. Lastly, I pray that no coach is putting their arms around any kid even while singing their praises as you say. It's unacceptable. Please note, I'm not defending recruiting - but I am speaking to the misperceptions that many acts are (negative) recruiting motivated. And, I have to say, that there are always going to be the exceptions - but let's not consider them the norm. We speak of the airplane crashes, not all the flights that go well, and I think we are missing much of the positive in the game here in a similar way. FWIW. hockeygymnast Registered Member Posts: 190 (1/18/06 12:37 am) Reply Re: Eden Prairie the real deal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't know what other parents think; but if a coach put his arm around my daughter and said the things that STIR overheard being said; that would be the last place my daughter would play. If it's true, it is a total bush league move by that coach. And I don't think my daughter would be impressed either.

blankpaper1234 · Post by **blankpaper1234** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:42 pm

First off i want to say that EP is one of the cleanest teams out there.. (that is what this post started on).. being a rival with them, i have to give them the respect they deserve. They arent cheap and they are very respectful to their opponents. and second off.. with their transefering stuff.. the ones who transfered probably should have.. i know Kennedy has a weaker hockey program now, but before all their teammates transferred they were decent. on the other had kennedy is a very poor acedemic selection, and i would have transfered out of there too.. looking at it, kennedy raised a pretty strong youth program, look at everyone who transfered out.. all strong players, if parets have the means to transfer their kids to a different public highschool with out having to pay for private tuition most parents are going to do it if their kids are getting a better education.

hockeyparent1 · Post by **hockeyparent1** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:24 am

EDUCATION RIGHT

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