St. Thomas going AA

[HShockeywatcher]

packerboy,

#1 Which other schools have been discussed? Sure, some others have been brought up, but no others with titles of threads or that people continuously harass. Based on post season results (which is the only place your class matters) Marshall has had more success and more reason to opt, but no one sits around disrespecting them.

#2 I agree. That being said, what about the original question; a school's class should have to do only with that school, why do so many people care, especially those who hate the school? If they wanna live in "Bsquad land" and play for the "JV trophy" why do you people care? Wouldn't that just give you more fuel to make fun of them if they get it?

power, you have no agreed with me, just brought things up to strengthen my points. Also, numbers wise, only playing the biggest 45% of the teams in a sport, like in AA hockey, and coming away with a title isn't as prestigious as only playing the biggest 15-20% of the teams, like in AAAAA football and AAAA basketball.

As for St Thomas, most of the top players on the team are either seniors or Ryan Walters, who will most likely not be there next year. A few good years, just like many other current Class A teams.

[Neutron 14]

St. Thomas will be good in hockey for as long as they want to be good in hockey. Its a great school, and has a lot to offer (wink,wink).

I'd never be able to get over the no girls thingy myself, but apparently has some "totem town" allure to people.

[who_b_dat]

Hmmmm, interesting point of view.

History does tend to repeat itself around here.

[packerboy]

HS,

#1 I am not going to read for you. You have to read the posts if you want to participate in the thread. Go back and do that. If you do, you will see that I specifically mentioned Marshall among others. St Paul just specifically called out Warroad on the issue.

#2 We care about hockey and the tournament. Right now IMO, the Class thing is a clusterfluke. If STA, Marshall etc would opt up as BSM, HM, CDH GR, Roseau etc have, hockey would benefit. It would be as close to the old one Class system as you could get. It would leave Class A to Wortington, Albert Lea, TRF, etc where it belongs.


Its pretty simple.

[Neutron 14]

History does tend to repeat itself around here.

In St. Thomas threads, things tend to go around and around and around and around...

[ROOK EYE]

First of all. I would be willing to bet not all the kids that attend Warroad are from only Warroad. Same thing in Roseau and alot of those communities. You don't think they move around up there as well, for the sole purpose of fielding a good team? I could be wrong, but i would bet that is the case up there too. As far as the Class A argument. I for one would much rather see ST Thomas-Warroad-Blake-Breck-D.M etc. than i would Worthington/Bird Island Lake Lylian/Staples-Motley. So St Thomas opts up . They play let's say, Hill in the section final. One of those two teams has to lose. Now you have just lost one team there with ton's of talented kids that don't get exposed and that's just one team. There certainly would be other sections and schools in the same boat . To me you have now wrecked the Class A tourney just because you think the Class A tournement was designed for Worthington-B.I.L.L/Staples. etc. (Those are grapplin' communities anyways). You'd end up with attendence like the Girls tournement. I think the way they do it now exposes alot more good hockey players and it makes for 2 very entertaining tournaments. Again, i could care less who wins what. I have no affiliation. I have heard nothing but wonderful things about the Academy of St. Thomas. In reading this forum i do believe this continual St. Thomas bashing goes back to one thing. No one likes a winner. Jealosy and Envy is an age old problem.. St Thomas should stay right where they are. Just one man's theory.. I still love the Pack and SSP.

[Neutron 14]

We have two classes for a reason. And SURPRISE! It isnt a MSHSL mandate!

We have two classes because it was petitioned for by the coaches of small schools who said they "couldn't compete" with the larger schools. Some small school coaches protested vehemently on that characterization, and the "opt up" provision was created.

Cannot STA, Duluth Marshall, Hermantown, Warroad, and Breck compete with the AA schools?

[Bombay Saphires]

The Academy will stay in the A class because it makes every team and person equal on campus.. no special treatment for the hockey players. The smiles on the kids faces after winning in 06 was no different than the Cretin kids in 06...kids come for the education, having the Vannelli family coaching has made a big difference in their hockey program, ask the Schroeder family, Jordon little brother is playing there as a freshmen and education was the key, Jordon could have played anywhere but choose STA and now will finished high school early.

[ACTUALFORMERPLAYER]

Jordon could have played anywhere but choose STA and now will finished high school early.

Skipped a couple classes?

Your whole post is horrible. If every student is treated equally, why go there? Note to all young men; if you want to be BMOC don't go to STA. Seriously, is this true?

I'll give you credit for your name. Excellent taste.

[droppin'gloves]

STA is a good squad and has strung together a few good years. It is a little premature to start calling STA cowards for not moving up. I agree that if their success continues it would make sense for them to move up, but to get all bent out of shape because they had 3 or 4 good years is ridiculous. It is an obvious possibility that a talented class of '08 seniors have contributed to their success over the past 3 to 4 years. When the success begins to transcend individual classes of players and actually begins to resemble a dynasty, only then will talk of opting up will be relevant. STA has been around for decades and has never enjoyed success like they have of late. People can make arguements about recruiting and open enrollment all they want, but the fact of the matter is STA attracts talented and driven individuals because of facts such as they sent 100% of the '07 graduating class on to post secondary education. 9 times out of 10 I pull for the public school over private school myself, but it is just silly to expect STA to opt up after a couple good seasons.

The Bsquad mentality in one paragraph.

CDH opts up and always has and they have been to a total of 2 state tournamnets, one time winning the championship. Everybody there would take that over 1,000 Class A trophies.

Everybody likes to win but most people, when they do win want it to be something meaningful...not something they have to explain with a lot of drivel.

Drivel? Catholic values and military discipline are drivel? There is no "B squad Mentality" about it. Orono has gone to the state tournament the last couple years. Why don't we start attacking them. Oh yeah, because they aren't the ones beating the snot out of your packers. Kids have to sacrifice alot to go to STA, and they do it for the complete experience. When I was in high school I didn't know too many guys that would sacrifice going to school with their friends and not to mention girls to play hockey on a better team. Get over yourself. STA is graduating 10 seniors. The pitiful packers will be out of the cellar and back floundering in mediocrity in no time.

[DickTrickle]

they belong there anyway..........my question is why the hell arent they?

[schwang17]

History does tend to repeat itself around here.

In St. Thomas threads, things tend to go around and around and around and around...

You mean like, in a circle??....

[Zeke16]

" I for one would much rather see ST Thomas-Warroad-Blake-Breck-D.M etc. than i would Worthington/Bird Island Lake Lylian/Staples-Motley. "

Rook, who cares which game YOU would watch. It's for the kids - right?

[packerboy]

It doesnt make any difference how wonderful everything and everybody is at STA or Marshall or Warroad or anywhere else. Nobody is bashing the institutions.

Just the Bsquad mentality and just as it relates to hockey.

Everybody is wonderful in Grand Rapids, Roseau , HM etc too. But they opt up. They participate in the greatest high school sporting event in the world.

[whitebearsuperfanB]

If you ask me all private schools, including STA, should play AA. If they can't compete with double A schools give them some more money for recruting.

[wblsuperfanS]

mo money mo problems

[HShockeywatcher]

I'm surprised that this thread has dropped off, and not proud to be the one bringing it back up.

Neutron 14 brought up probably one of the only posts in the thread that matters that much: "We have two classes because it was petitioned for by the coaches of small schools who said they "couldn't compete" with the larger schools. Some small school coaches protested vehemently on that characterization, and the "opt up" provision was created. "

I have a few questions:
1. In asking for it, was there anything said about the event that a team from a small school started doing really well?
2. Were they asking for a class system, or did they want it to be a tier system where they are playing for the "best of the worst" crown at the end of the season?
3. Being that the change was made because of a coaching petition, wouldn't it make sense to wait until there is another petition by the coaches for something they want to change?
4. Personally I feel that both Marshall and St Thomas should opt up, for reasons other than those of most on the bored, but with the reason the two classes were made, what should be done in the case of a team, public or private, in the lower class being able to compete with anyone years in a row? Should they be forced to opt up? That concept alone seems kinda backwards to me; in college the tops in one class can, for the most part, compete with the bottom of the next class. When teams are dominant, they aren't asked to opt up, they just make records.

I'm not taking a stand either way, as my opinion is St Thomas should opt up. It seems we are discussing this topic specifically about one team, but I think people's opinions may change, maybe not, if it were just about a hypothetical team in general.

[thestickler07]

Please lock this thread before people start flaming this poor guy more than they already have.

[61ache]

First of all. I would be willing to bet not all the kids that attend Warroad are from only Warroad. Same thing in Roseau and alot of those communities. You don't think they move around up there as well, for the sole purpose of fielding a good team? I could be wrong, but i would bet that is the case up there too. As far as the Class A argument. I for one would much rather see ST Thomas-Warroad-Blake-Breck-D.M etc. than i would Worthington/Bird Island Lake Lylian/Staples-Motley. So St Thomas opts up . They play let's say, Hill in the section final. One of those two teams has to lose. Now you have just lost one team there with ton's of talented kids that don't get exposed and that's just one team. There certainly would be other sections and schools in the same boat . To me you have now wrecked the Class A tourney just because you think the Class A tournement was designed for Worthington-B.I.L.L/Staples. etc. (Those are grapplin' communities anyways). You'd end up with attendence like the Girls tournement. I think the way they do it now exposes alot more good hockey players and it makes for 2 very entertaining tournaments. Again, i could care less who wins what. I have no affiliation. I have heard nothing but wonderful things about the Academy of St. Thomas. In reading this forum i do believe this continual St. Thomas bashing goes back to one thing. No one likes a winner. Jealosy and Envy is an age old problem.. St Thomas should stay right where they are. Just one man's theory.. I still love the Pack and SSP.

First of all, your basing your whole theory on a guess. Which isn't a good way to start. Coming from the area I know that a) Warroad does get its occasional gun for hire to come in, but for all the years I played in Roseau we didn't have a kid on the varsity that hadn't played in the youth program since pee-wees. Second, its not exactly comparing apples to apples now is it. On one case you have a family that moves a minimum of 100 miles away to a community were they have to live, work, etc and in the metro area you get on a different school bus.

[Cabela10]

Isn't it clear that St. Thomas recruits kids? Look at their roster. They pulled the top players from Prior Lake and Lakeville. We had a little snow earlier this year and St. Thomas had to cancel their game because they knew how far their players had to drive to get to the arena. Now that is a joke.
St. Thomas should be in AA and for that matter, I feel that all private schools should compete in the same section and only one private school goes to the state tourney.

[Zeke16]

I'm glad you're not in charge then

[packerboy]

Hockey programs dont opt up for one reason and one reason only: They think their chances of playing hockey in March are much better if they stay in A.
They would rather have regular "success" in Class A.

Its the Bsqaud mentality. Its that simple. Everything else is bull dung.

[Slapper Al]

This thread needs to be put to bed, but you need to know that all private schools need recruit, but it is not recruiting based on particular piece of the school. It is for the entire package. When I was going to elementary school, all of the private high-schools came to our school to show us their pitches and to help entice us to the school. While at High School they would send me and the other guys back to my grade school to tell them about my decision. These parents are paying for the education and need to be reassured of their investment.

Sports play a key roll in this decision. Kids go to CDH because they have dreams of being the next Michael Floyd or Joe Mauer and they see their success in those sports. Kids go to Hill Murray because of their storied past. And the list goes on and on. Success starts to recruit itself.

St Thomas believes strongly that to compete year in and year out in all sports that Class A is the route that best suits them overall. They are not opting down. This along with top notch facilities, strong coaching staffs for all sports, and great teachers allows them to get kids from all over the metro, but they are not actively recruiting kids for a particular sport. What other private school options do kids from Lakeville or the sourthern metro have? Another key point is that they don't have the luxury that the other communities have in developing kids from Mites through High School. Private schools teach a bunch of individuals new systems from Freshman year on.

I understand the hatred of a winner. This is new for STA and this senior class is special, but I am not sure it will last forever. STA will remain in A for the Tourney and play a balanced schedule during the year. I would just advise to you to get over it. And Packerboy what did SSP do when the going got tough? Now they want STA to move to improve their chances.

[packerboy]

You can' t seriously compare SSP's situation to STA's.

We understand the Bsquad mentality.

[HShockeywatcher]

Slapper Al, those were all great, true points. As private institutions, they must recruit students. If they didn't, just like many private institutions, including many private colleges, they wouldn't be able to operate.

The B-squad comments seem to me to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. Neutron 14 post a comment talking about how the coaches wanted to have two classes as they couldn't compete with the big dogs so they should have a tournament for the smaller schools. So, they are there because someone wanted a smaller class.

No one said anything about St Thomas opting up 5 years ago. No one walks around making fun of average Class A schools for being in the smaller class. But when one team who happens to be private does well in that class they should opt up but not teams from before who've been good. 3 seasons ago Warroad was a top three team in state, but most on here defend them saying they shouldn't opt up despite their success.
Bottom line, if private schools aren't good we don't care about them, but if they do well, we need to make it harder for them.

There are multiple classes in college, but we leave those alone. St Johns is still a D3 school, as they could play with lots of D2 programs probably. St Norbert could skate with bottom D1 teams. The list goes on and on, and we let them stay at the top of where they are and applaud them, not look down on them for not playing D1.

ROCK EYE raises a great point. Coaches have said they want two classes. Even if it evolves to the tier system, which it semi is now, there will still be two classes. So, why are people trying to make the bottom one even worse? Why not trying to get to where we have two good tourneys? Would you really want to have teams that currently don't make it to section finals in their Class A sections fighting for a STATE title?

I'm curious, why all the attacking of St Thomas and not Marshall? St Thomas has a title, yes, but everything else comparing the two, Marshall's success has been more, including head to head.