Can anyone tell me one good reason District 10 uses pool play at the B level?
Elk River loses one close game to Centennial and has no chance to go to regionals. If it was a double elimination bracket, like the A level, they still have a shot.
District 10 Pool Play
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
It seems like every District has its own way of putting together a District tourney. Depending on number of teams etc. However... everyone knows the rules going into it, and the only good way to move on is to beat everyone you play. If you win all your games, you are in good shape... other than that, you are just our Minnesota Vikings... 8-8 hoping that everyone else loses.
Re: District 10 Pool Play
Its no different than highschool you lose you go home. The d10 regular season champ gets to go plus the top two teams of the tourny what else do you want?ernumber1 wrote:Can anyone tell me one good reason District 10 uses pool play at the B level?
Elk River loses one close game to Centennial and has no chance to go to regionals. If it was a double elimination bracket, like the A level, they still have a shot.
ER
ER tied for third best record in league play. They lost to Cent Red and Chisago in the playoffs. Blaine beat Cent Red and Chisago in the playoffs. ER did not play Blaine.
The D10 seedings are an accurate reflection for the past week's play.
No system is perfect when you are allowing more than just one team to advance.
The D10 seedings are an accurate reflection for the past week's play.
No system is perfect when you are allowing more than just one team to advance.
I guess my point is, why choose such a goofy playoff format when pretty much everyone else uses a double elimination bracket.
You shouldn't have to rely on how many goals another team scores to determine if you move on.
Check this scenario out: If Champlin would have beaten Pine City, Elk River would have been in the championship game. Three way tie, first tiebreaker is goal differential. Centennial and CP both were a plus two. One tie, all tie. Next tiebreaker, dividing goals scored by goals against, still another tie between ER and Centennial. Final tiebreaker goes by league standings, ER wins.
Anytime you have to get a calculator out to figure out who moves on in a tournament, something is wrong. Double elimination solves that. What your team does on the ice is the only thing that matters.
You shouldn't have to rely on how many goals another team scores to determine if you move on.
Check this scenario out: If Champlin would have beaten Pine City, Elk River would have been in the championship game. Three way tie, first tiebreaker is goal differential. Centennial and CP both were a plus two. One tie, all tie. Next tiebreaker, dividing goals scored by goals against, still another tie between ER and Centennial. Final tiebreaker goes by league standings, ER wins.
Anytime you have to get a calculator out to figure out who moves on in a tournament, something is wrong. Double elimination solves that. What your team does on the ice is the only thing that matters.
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greybeard58
- Posts: 2560
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:40 pm
The pool play round robin format has been used by the District for many years and now pool play is also used by the state for all regions and also by USA Hockey in the nationals where you go from pool play into a bracket. All coaches knew the format before the tournament score goals and do not allow them, win all your games and you do not have to worry about a tie breaker. What your team does on the ice for all games is a determing factor. Now with the regional format some years only 2 teams go and if the league champion is not in the fChampionship even a double elim would not solve your complaint.
Why don't you take the time and bring to your District a detailed format including the number of days played for the tournament locations, costs and so forth.
Looking at the standings on the net I guess that had Champlin Park won you would be a strong backer of the Fair Play point.
Now go the the Mn Hockey handbook and read the tie breaking format for the pool play tournament.
Why don't you take the time and bring to your District a detailed format including the number of days played for the tournament locations, costs and so forth.
Looking at the standings on the net I guess that had Champlin Park won you would be a strong backer of the Fair Play point.
Now go the the Mn Hockey handbook and read the tie breaking format for the pool play tournament.
I understand we lost and I can accept that. We tried to go to D10 last year, only to hear basically... "that is the way it is done".
But, nobody has given me a good reason for pool play yet. Can't be the number of games, there are 14 total games in pool play and only 13 in double elimination bracket.
BTW, I looked at the MN Hockey tiebreakers attached below... wouldn't it be easier to say, if you win, you move on?
EXAMPLE
GAME 1 GAME 2 GAME 3 GAME 4 GAME 5 GAME 6
Team A - 3 Team C - 3 Team A - 6 Team B - 2 Team B - 6 Team A - 4
Team B - 5 Team D - 2 Team D - 5 Team C - 6 Team D - 3 Team C - 1
After all games have been played there are three teams tied with 4 points each.
If two or more teams have an equal number of points, their position in the standings shall be determined by –
a. The results of the games played between the tied teams in the following order:
1. The points acquired in these games (games among the tied teams only).
Take out the games played with team D.
The teams A-B-C are still tied with 2 points each.
2. Subtracting goals against from goals scored in these games.
Team A Goals for 3 + 4 = 7 Against 5 + 1 = 6 Net +1
Team B Goals for 5 + 2 = 7 Against 3 + 6 = 9 Net –2
Team C Goals for 6 + 1 = 7 Against 2 + 4 = 6 Net +1
We still have two teams tied with +1 goals.
NOTE: When the tie involves three or more teams, each formula shall be applied in succession until one formula determines the position in the standings for all teams involved.
3. Dividing the goals scored in these games by the goals scored against.
We still have teams tied.
b. If the tie still exists after applying formulas a1, a2 & a3, then a2 & a3 shall be re-applied using all the games played by each team.
2. Subtracting goals against from goals scored in all games.
Team A Goals for 3 + 4 + 6 = 13 Against 5 + 1 + 5 = 11 Net +2
Team B Goals for 5 + 2 + 6 = 13 Against 3 + 6 + 3 = 12 Net +1
Team C Goals for 6 + 1 + 3 = 10 Against 2 + 4 + 2 = 8 Net +2
3. Dividing the goals scored in all games by the goals scored against.
Team A 1.1818 2nd Place
Team B 1.0833 3rd Place
Team C 1.2500 1st Place
c. If the above procedure does not break the tie, the teams shall use a SHOOT OUT procedure. Refer to MN Hockey Youth Rules and Regulations – Breaking of Ties.
But, nobody has given me a good reason for pool play yet. Can't be the number of games, there are 14 total games in pool play and only 13 in double elimination bracket.
BTW, I looked at the MN Hockey tiebreakers attached below... wouldn't it be easier to say, if you win, you move on?
EXAMPLE
GAME 1 GAME 2 GAME 3 GAME 4 GAME 5 GAME 6
Team A - 3 Team C - 3 Team A - 6 Team B - 2 Team B - 6 Team A - 4
Team B - 5 Team D - 2 Team D - 5 Team C - 6 Team D - 3 Team C - 1
After all games have been played there are three teams tied with 4 points each.
If two or more teams have an equal number of points, their position in the standings shall be determined by –
a. The results of the games played between the tied teams in the following order:
1. The points acquired in these games (games among the tied teams only).
Take out the games played with team D.
The teams A-B-C are still tied with 2 points each.
2. Subtracting goals against from goals scored in these games.
Team A Goals for 3 + 4 = 7 Against 5 + 1 = 6 Net +1
Team B Goals for 5 + 2 = 7 Against 3 + 6 = 9 Net –2
Team C Goals for 6 + 1 = 7 Against 2 + 4 = 6 Net +1
We still have two teams tied with +1 goals.
NOTE: When the tie involves three or more teams, each formula shall be applied in succession until one formula determines the position in the standings for all teams involved.
3. Dividing the goals scored in these games by the goals scored against.
We still have teams tied.
b. If the tie still exists after applying formulas a1, a2 & a3, then a2 & a3 shall be re-applied using all the games played by each team.
2. Subtracting goals against from goals scored in all games.
Team A Goals for 3 + 4 + 6 = 13 Against 5 + 1 + 5 = 11 Net +2
Team B Goals for 5 + 2 + 6 = 13 Against 3 + 6 + 3 = 12 Net +1
Team C Goals for 6 + 1 + 3 = 10 Against 2 + 4 + 2 = 8 Net +2
3. Dividing the goals scored in all games by the goals scored against.
Team A 1.1818 2nd Place
Team B 1.0833 3rd Place
Team C 1.2500 1st Place
c. If the above procedure does not break the tie, the teams shall use a SHOOT OUT procedure. Refer to MN Hockey Youth Rules and Regulations – Breaking of Ties.