Population + Hockey = Regions

Pucknutz69 · Post by **Pucknutz69** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:33 am

It looks like you just need numbers to get out of D8.
Peewee B = Eagan Green, Lakeville N Black and Eagan Blue
Peewee A = Not updated but involves Rochester, Lakeville North and South, Eagan and Woodbury
Bantam A = Lakeville South, Rochester and Eagan
Bantam B= Lakeville South, Rochester Red and Eagan

These are the biggest associations in D8 and look who is headed to Regionals. Lakeville does it right by having 2 equal teams.

Put down your winners and we will see if the trend is the same.

Ricky · Post by **Ricky** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:04 am

No offense... but I think you are going to have a hard time getting population sympathy in D8. Hastings, IG, CG, Rosemont... not exactly Hickory High School. If Roseau can hang in there... I'm sure D8 can.

HockeyRocks1 · Post by **HockeyRocks1** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:44 am

Pucknutz69 before you start whining about population you need to look at demographics. Population doesn't mean a thing if your median age is 50 with no kids!

Pucknutz69 · Post by **Pucknutz69** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:45 am

I am not comparing Roseau to Lakeville am I? I am saying take a look at the teams that are headed to Regions and see what the size of the Associations are. How many kids in the assc, not HS size. How does Roseau compare numbers wise to the other teams in D16? How many Bantams at tryouts? You are in a District that all have about the same for numbers. In D8 we have some with 400 skaters and some over 1200 skaters. Rochester has 1 A, 3 B and 1 C team. One B team is all 2nd year bantams, 1 is all first year and the other is a mixture of the two with the remaining skaters going to C level. After watching the Rochester Red B team they could have easily put two competitive A teams on the ice. If they aren't going to break down the big assc then the smaller ones should start joining at the A level. No offense to the Northern teams it is more of a problem in the Metro area, Lets watch and see What happens at State this year.

Pucknutz69 · Post by **Pucknutz69** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:49 am

HockeyRocks1 wrote:Pucknutz69 before you start whining about population you need to look at demographics. Population doesn't mean a thing if your median age is 50 with no kids!

DUUHHHH really? Why do you think South St Paul had to join with Inver Grove Heights this year at the A Level? Because of both reasons Old community and ethnic make-up of the new families and income levels of those families. The same is happening in St Paul with Johnson/Harding.

HockeyRocks1 · Post by **HockeyRocks1** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:00 am

Pucknutz69 I have to disagree with your thoughts that Rochester could have fielded to competitive A bantam teams. If you look back two years ago to A Pee Wee this group of kids finished with a winning percentage of 50 and 20. From that group 3 top players went to HS.

It's not about winning, it's about putting kids in a position to compete. RR B-Bantams have had a good season but in that group of kids there are only about 4 skilled kids and two of them are the goalies.

Also I'd like to add Numbers don't equal Skill. The kids must want to get better and be serious about hockey. Rochester has numbers but they don't have the skill. A- first place: B- 3rd, 9th, 12th: C- 12th, 15th & 16th. Ouch!

Rhino · Post by **Rhino** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:37 am

D10

A Bantams-
Centennial - large
Blaine - large
Elk River - small/med (400 skaters)

B1 Bantams
Blaine - large
Sauk Rapids - small
Centennial - large

A Peewees
Elk River - small/med
Centennial - Large
Rogers - small (200 skaters)

B1 Peewees
Andover - small/med (300-400 skaters)
Elk River - Small / Med
Coon Rapids - small / med (approx 400 skaters)

A Squirts (no regions)
Elk River
Blaine
Andover
Anoka

So as you can see its not always the large associations that make regions, its the most skilled teams that make it. You can have a small association and still field competitive teams if your association and the partents/skaters are dedicated to skills, skills, skills at the mite, squirt and bantam levels then you should have success. IMO

Stealth · Post by **Stealth** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:45 am

One big deal too is, do they field an “A” team

. Your Sauk Rapids does not have a Bantam A or a Pee Wee A. That is always a discussion point. Go “B” and try to win.
Maybe this focus should be based on "A" programs only due to that with thought of a strong "B" program in suport?

Who is small and has a winning "A" program .

HockeyRocks1 · Post by **HockeyRocks1** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:56 am

I don't think there are any associations that say "Hey lets just have a B team so we can win it all" I would say the choose by numbers and talent.

Chisago Lakes has a good BB team but only 10 or 11 players. Five of them are top end B players but probably wouldn't make an A team in a larger association.

Pucknutz69 · Post by **Pucknutz69** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:09 am

HockeyRocks1 wrote:Pucknutz69 I have to disagree with your thoughts that Rochester could have fielded to competitive A bantam teams. If you look back two years ago to A Pee Wee this group of kids finished with a winning percentage of 50 and 20. From that group 3 top players went to HS.

It's not about winning, it's about putting kids in a position to compete. RR B-Bantams have had a good season but in that group of kids there are only about 4 skilled kids and two of them are the goalies.

Also I'd like to add Numbers don't equal Skill. The kids must want to get better and be serious about hockey. Rochester has numbers but they don't have the skill. A- first place: B- 3rd, 9th, 12th: C- 12th, 15th & 16th. Ouch!

Just a couple of responses on your comments.
What they did in Peewee's 2 years ago really doesn't add up to much at Bantams. Kids get better, some quit, some grow and coaching changes have a lot to do with it.

If it isn't about winning then why not 2 A teams like in years past? It was and is about winning, the fact that you weren't and wanted to win. So if I want my Peewee team next year to win and I really only have 8 A caliber players should we drop down to the B level because it's about putting kids in the right spot isn't it? You have enough A players too field 2 A teams don't dance around the winning and development crap.

I bet you if I had a couple of strong players that they would push the lesser skilled players to be better. And the more I have to chose from chances are the better we will be. That is why people skate AAA in the summer to skate with better competition.

HockeyRocks1 · Post by **HockeyRocks1** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:22 am

That's what I love about posting boards. The meanings get lost.

Kids get better, some quit, some grow and coaching changes have a lot to do with it. To this I would answer, I know these kids. Not much has changed.

It's not about winning, it's about putting kids in a position to compete The more to the story is the one team won 5 games. It was demoralizing to each and every player. They were outshot by 400 shots for the season!

I bet you if I had a couple of strong players that they would push the lesser skilled players to be better. We don't have this and that is a major part of the problem.

Pucknutz69 · Post by **Pucknutz69** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:19 pm

HockeyRocks1 wrote:That's what I love about posting boards. The meanings get lost.

Kids get better, some quit, some grow and coaching changes have a lot to do with it. To this I would answer, I know these kids. Not much has changed.

It's not about winning, it's about putting kids in a position to compete The more to the story is the one team won 5 games. It was demoralizing to each and every player. They were outshot by 400 shots for the season!

I bet you if I had a couple of strong players that they would push the lesser skilled players to be better. We don't have this and that is a major part of the problem.

So it's not okay that your kids get demoralized but teams like Farmington, Winona, Hastings and Red Wing field A teams at Bantam Level have to face your loaded up team? And they only have 30 - 45 kids tryout and you have 75+? You made 1 team to do nothing more than WIN, if it was about development you would have those kids play at the higher level of competition. You have a smaller problem then you think you do.

HockeyRocks1 · Post by **HockeyRocks1** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 12:56 pm

Well if you want to get nasty! Farmington, Winona, Hastings and Red Wing & Dodge County probably shouldn't field A teams at any level. There leadership chooses to do so and get beat up. I honestly felt sorry for the Farmington BB team. They were in way over their heads to 70% of D8.

Changing perception is difficult but if you were here, you would have a different opinion.

I forgot to mention earlier that RR success this year has been great coaching. A different coach and they would have finished 8th at best.

HShockey2180 · Post by **HShockey2180** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:44 pm

There is no way Rochester could field 2 competitive A teams, Pucknutz you say that after seeing the B Red team?...They are an excellent team, but like HockeyRocks said it is led by only a few very skilled players, and the way they win is by playing smart, they make the right passes and the right plays. If they were to compete at the A level, they would get torn apart physically. They are not big enough, fast enough, or strong enough to compete at a higher level (with the exception of O'reilly). There is a point when good coaching, and a good "hockey sense" can not make up for lack of size and physicality. If you were to take the top 5 players from the Bantam B Black team, and the top 5 Players from the Bantam B Red team, and then add in the players who currently play VFW, but are on the southern portion of town; Then you have the equivalent of Rochester Bantam A South all over again.
Rochester, thus far has been very succesful at the Bantam level this year. Fielding 2 competitive B teams, and one of the top A teams in the state. Originally, I thought the new system was a recipe for disaster but it has pleasantly surprised me as the season has progressed.

Pucknutz69 · Post by **Pucknutz69** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:59 pm

HShockey2180 wrote:There is no way Rochester could field 2 competitive A teams, Pucknutz you say that after seeing the B Red team?...They are an excellent team, but like HockeyRocks said it is led by only a few very skilled players, and the way they win is by playing smart, they make the right passes and the right plays. If they were to compete at the A level, they would get torn apart physically. They are not big enough, fast enough, or strong enough to compete at a higher level (with the exception of O'reilly). There is a point when good coaching, and a good "hockey sense" can not make up for lack of size and physicality. If you were to take the top 5 players from the Bantam B Black team, and the top 5 Players from the Bantam B Red team, and then add in the players who currently play VFW, but are on the southern portion of town; Then you have the equivalent of Rochester Bantam A South all over again.
Rochester, thus far has been very succesful at the Bantam level this year. Fielding 2 competitive B teams, and one of the top A teams in the state. Originally, I thought the new system was a recipe for disaster but it has pleasantly surprised me as the season progresses.

Poor, poor Rochester 80+ kids in Bantams and not a Crosby in the bunch. Split the current A team and fill in with the other and you have 2 competitive teams and according to HockeyRocks1 4 A level goalies. You are looking at it from a Rochester pint of view only and that is sad. Look at it from a River Heights or Farmington view, they make due with what they have, they take thier beatings and come back to A every year. You chose 1 team because you had that option. D8 should have stepped in and put an end to it right away.

bauerhockey23 · Post by **bauerhockey23** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:01 pm

What hockey association are you part of Pucknutz69?

jackstraw · Post by **jackstraw** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 7:30 pm

Hockeyrock want's to compare PW team's moving to bantam's and say's that Dodge Co. shouldn't field an A team at any level, when 1 short year ago they had a better A PW team than Roch.'s top team. What do the high school coaches think of 1 A bantam team? (I already know the answer).

bauerhockey23 · Post by **bauerhockey23** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:03 pm

a year rochester beat dodge county 3 to 0 in district playoffs n pewee a

HockeyRocks1 · Post by **HockeyRocks1** » Mon Feb 26, 2007 9:09 pm

bauerhockey23 it was a general statement about putting kids where they can compete. If I recall you had one good team last year. The majority of your kids were over their head because your parents were tied to a letter designation. Last years DC SQA couldn't skate in B's and be successful. This years BB was way over matched. Yeah you 'll have a good team here and there. The nice thing about your DC kids is they are long on heart unlike our spoiled children in Rochester.

Who give's a crap what High School coaches think. How much cash has the Rochester School District put into the rinks? How many HS coaches are out helping in youth hockey? Answers about 5% and Bob Haskins!

T-Rabb01 · Post by **T-Rabb01** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:49 pm

Alright. No one can talk about how many kids tryout for a team. specially when my team only gets 35 or less to pick from and oh hi our games against the top teams in mn are close. like we tie edina 2-2. beat andover 4-3. beat GR 3-1. lose to DE 5-4. Beat Tartan 6-0. it doesnt matter how many kids come out for your team. so stop bitching and play hockey.

Co[D]18 · Post by **Co[D]18** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:36 pm

T-Rabb01 wrote:Alright. No one can talk about how many kids tryout for a team. specially when my team only gets 35 or less to pick from and oh hi our games against the top teams in mn are close. like we tie edina 2-2. beat andover 4-3. beat GR 3-1. lose to DE 5-4. Beat Tartan 6-0. it doesnt matter how many kids come out for your team. so stop bitching and play hockey.

AMEN

sinbin006 · Post by **sinbin006** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:46 pm

T-Rabb01 wrote:Alright. No one can talk about how many kids tryout for a team. specially when my team only gets 35 or less to pick from and oh hi our games against the top teams in mn are close. like we tie edina 2-2. beat andover 4-3. beat GR 3-1. lose to DE 5-4. Beat Tartan 6-0. it doesnt matter how many kids come out for your team. so stop bitching and play hockey.

I just checked and between all of your bantam teams, you have 44 players. Besides, not all of the other programs in the state are fortunate enough to have 4 outdoor rinks and 1 indoors all to themselves. You should also have more class than to come on here and toot your own horn. Unless you have won state, which last time I checked you didn't even make it, you should just keep quiet. You made it to regions, which is a great accomplishment, but by no means should you put yourselves on this pedestal above everyone else.

T-Rabb01 · Post by **T-Rabb01** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:59 pm

sinbin006 wrote:
T-Rabb01 wrote:Alright. No one can talk about how many kids tryout for a team. specially when my team only gets 35 or less to pick from and oh hi our games against the top teams in mn are close. like we tie edina 2-2. beat andover 4-3. beat GR 3-1. lose to DE 5-4. Beat Tartan 6-0. it doesnt matter how many kids come out for your team. so stop bitching and play hockey.
I just checked and between all of your bantam teams, you have 44 players. Besides, not all of the other programs in the state are fortunate enough to have 4 outdoor rinks and 1 indoors all to themselves. You should also have more class than to come on here and toot your own horn. Unless you have won state, which last time I checked you didn't even make it, you should just keep quiet. You made it to regions, which is a great accomplishment, but by no means should you put yourselves on this pedestal above everyone else.

1. Our teams fight for as much ice as we can with all the teams with have from Mini-Mites, Mites, Squirts, Pee Wees, Bantams, High School, And the other duluth teams that need ice since one duluth rink burned down.

2. Have you seen the weather we have had this passed year. Our ice opens in late December early January. We just had a frikin blizzard here which makes the ice a little hard to skate on.

3. What high School team is undefeated and going to state. Who said i was just talking about my team when it came down to all those players. And ya it's a frikin estimate.

Pucknutz69 · Post by **Pucknutz69** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:37 pm

I will simplify this. Lets look at

#1 = how many BANTAMs in your Association? Ours had 48. 3 teams, A finished top 4, B finished top 5 and C finished .500.

#2 = average (High team and low team also) in your District?
Rochester 5 bantam teams, Lakeville 5 bantam teams, Woodbury 6 Bantam teams. Winona, Northfield and Red Wing with 2 Red Wing being the smallest.

#3 = who won your regionals and districts?
Lakeville South, Rochester and Eagan districts and Roch, LS in position to win Regions.

Yes, I know sometimes a special group of kids can get together make some noise in thier district but historically the assocations with the numbers are at the state tournament.

Look at this year Centennial(5), Duluth East(5), Wayzata(6), Eden Prairie(5), Rochester(5), White Bear Lake(7)/ Lakeville South(5) winner. I left out Roseau(2) and Bemidji(2) but if you compare them to the other teams in thier District/Region they are on the big side. This is not as big of an issue in the North since all have around the same amout for numbers. You can't argue with what is right in front of your nose. And if you look at the past champions it is the same teams every year playing for it, the large associations.

# of bantam teams for each association/town in ().

PL-Patriot · Post by **PL-Patriot** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:59 pm

no i didnt look at all of ur comments but im sure there all great

I play for Pequot Lakes most of u dont no what team i am. my is a total of 13players and 1 goalie

We r going to state

We have no A team or B2 team just us 14 we've only lost 5 times this year

Most games we lost we didnt come to play out of all lost 1 i would say was because of they had A, B1, B2 and that game end 3-5 (5th goal empty net)

i say that size dosnt really matter

but we will see in state $\:D/$