When will Halderson quit relying on the U name?
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When will Halderson quit relying on the U name?
It seems to me Laura has leaned too hard on having the states best players fall in her lap because they want to stay at home and be able to play in front of friends and family. Meanwhile all the other teams have been stealing away alot of the best kids. Based on what I've seen, the U didn't have a very good year when it came to landing the states blue-chip players. It just seems that the other coaches are working a lot harder to land these kids than she is.
Laura is a good solid coach, i think she did ok in her recruiting this year, there are always a few kids that get away who may have been able to help the gophers. the only thing i feel i can critisize her on is she should be more out there in front of the public creating interest in the program and possibly selling more tickets but as far as coaching is concerned i think she does a good job
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MNHockeyFan
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From a distance it certainly appears that many of the state's top players have for one reason or another gotten away, deciding to go to other schools. I know it's not like the Gophers' men, with its long tradition and so many boys growing up and dreaming to some day wear the maroon and gold. And since playing opportunities for girls after college are so limited, you've got to think that the choice between going to a Minnesota vs. a top Ivy League school, if given the choice, becomes more difficult.
But that wouldn't explain the tremendous success that Wisconsin has enjoyed the past two seasons, and Wisconsin doesn't have nearly as many in-state players to pick from. Minnesota also has Ridder Arena, maybe the best women-only facility in the country to help attract recruits.
Anyway you've got to hand it to Wisconsin for doing a tremendous job building their program up so quickly. Nobody can reasonably expect to see their school be No. 1 year in and year out. But I think you would have to say that there is cause for concern here in Gopherland based on the current trends.
But that wouldn't explain the tremendous success that Wisconsin has enjoyed the past two seasons, and Wisconsin doesn't have nearly as many in-state players to pick from. Minnesota also has Ridder Arena, maybe the best women-only facility in the country to help attract recruits.
Anyway you've got to hand it to Wisconsin for doing a tremendous job building their program up so quickly. Nobody can reasonably expect to see their school be No. 1 year in and year out. But I think you would have to say that there is cause for concern here in Gopherland based on the current trends.
Mark Johnson does a very good job with Wisconsin, he could head up alot of men's college hockey programs in the country and deserves all the acolades that he gets. He is out there in front for the womens Hockey program at Wisconsin and creates interest and really does everything the right way. The Gophers on the other hand have a good coach, not a great one but a very good one. If she took a higher profile with the program she would have greater success in recruiting. She also does alot of things right and I think it's to early to start calling for her head. now if the downward trend continues with the Minnesota program I would begin to get concerned because it would be a sign that todays players skills have outgrown what she can give them (it happens). If thats the case then she will have to upgrade her skills to remain a competitive college level coach. But from what I have seen she has done a good job with the girls
Minnesota Recruiting
I don't know if Coach Halldorson is being "outworked" by other coaches, but I agree other coaches are having better luck recruiting the top talent from the state out of the last few classes. I'm certainly ready for that trend to end. There are other factors involved in some of the players decisions though, and their choosing to go elsewhere doesn't necessarily translate to Halldorson having not made a big effort to recruit them. Bottom line, I can agree that recently, the U staff isn't getting the job done within the state. You can't forget, or overlook how good a job they've done in the past either. The competition for Minnesota players has increased tremendously in a relative short period of time. As per UW and Johnson, right now he has what I would characterize as a significant advantage by also being the National team coach. Many top players are influenced by that and want to play for him for that reason, I believe. I also believe there are other reasons players want to play for him in addition to him being the National team coach.
Part of the issue at Minnesota recently has been an unfortunate cycle, by which I mean limited spots available at what would be opportune times...or specific senior classes. When there was the recent class loaded with excellent forwards (as loaded as any class has ever been IMO) they didn't have any room for forwards...and needed D badly. After that, when they are recruiting forwards...the class of forwards in state is not so deep, and or gifted. They've recruited four forwards for 2007-08, a class I personally characterize as less talented overall than the previous class. Now, IMO, you have another strong class at forward in the 2007-08 senior class, but again, the U won't have room for more than one...maybe two. So I think this unfortunate "cycle" is at least a partial factor. They also had an unforeseen and unexpected need for a goaltender in this current class...now there is a strong 'tender in state I would have liked to see them pursue...but maybe they did, I don't know. Another bottom line, I agree with others and am not quite ready to let the U coaching staff completely off the hook. They should be scooping up some more of the top Minnesota players IMO. I have high hopes that a couple of next season seniors will be the one / two forwards they may have room for (a specific one or two from my perspective
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Part of the issue at Minnesota recently has been an unfortunate cycle, by which I mean limited spots available at what would be opportune times...or specific senior classes. When there was the recent class loaded with excellent forwards (as loaded as any class has ever been IMO) they didn't have any room for forwards...and needed D badly. After that, when they are recruiting forwards...the class of forwards in state is not so deep, and or gifted. They've recruited four forwards for 2007-08, a class I personally characterize as less talented overall than the previous class. Now, IMO, you have another strong class at forward in the 2007-08 senior class, but again, the U won't have room for more than one...maybe two. So I think this unfortunate "cycle" is at least a partial factor. They also had an unforeseen and unexpected need for a goaltender in this current class...now there is a strong 'tender in state I would have liked to see them pursue...but maybe they did, I don't know. Another bottom line, I agree with others and am not quite ready to let the U coaching staff completely off the hook. They should be scooping up some more of the top Minnesota players IMO. I have high hopes that a couple of next season seniors will be the one / two forwards they may have room for (a specific one or two from my perspective
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girlshockey
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Minnesota Players
Minnesota produces some of the best players in the country and they are being recruited heavily by the East coast colleges. When the WCHA was forming, many Minnesota players stayed within the WCHA to play in front of family and friends and there were a lot of positions available. Now that the schools are graduating 2-5 seniors a year, there are less positions for incoming players and they have to look elsewhere in the country for a college.
But there are many players who want to "get away from home" and get a good Ivy league education and I think many players are headed out East. Katharine Chute's father went to Yale and I heard from him that her choices are between Dartmouth, Yale and Harvard. The WCHA was not even in the running for her. I don't think you can blame it all on the recruiting of the U of M, I think that players and their parents are trying to get the best scholarship or academic assistance program for their daughter. You must remember that some of the players get scholarship money as a fifth year student since colleges recommend that they not take a heavy load of classes to graduate in four years. That leaves less money for scholarships for incoming players.
Mark Johnson has a definite advantage in being the National Coach. When Allie Thunstrom could not play in the World Championships, he pulled Jinelle Zaugg up for his team. His knowledge of his own players gives them an advantage.
But there are many players who want to "get away from home" and get a good Ivy league education and I think many players are headed out East. Katharine Chute's father went to Yale and I heard from him that her choices are between Dartmouth, Yale and Harvard. The WCHA was not even in the running for her. I don't think you can blame it all on the recruiting of the U of M, I think that players and their parents are trying to get the best scholarship or academic assistance program for their daughter. You must remember that some of the players get scholarship money as a fifth year student since colleges recommend that they not take a heavy load of classes to graduate in four years. That leaves less money for scholarships for incoming players.
Mark Johnson has a definite advantage in being the National Coach. When Allie Thunstrom could not play in the World Championships, he pulled Jinelle Zaugg up for his team. His knowledge of his own players gives them an advantage.
girlshockey wrote:
The first job of any DI coach in any sport is to secure the state's best athletes, and the UM has not done that the last two years. However, Thunstrom, Jones, Hogan, Roberts, McDonald, all made bigger contributions as Freshmen than anyone could have predicted. And brooky makes a good point about timing and the needs of the team.
Money is an issue definitely, but not in the Ivy League--they're forbidden from giving any scholarship money for athletics.I don't think you can blame it all on the recruiting of the U of M, I think that players and their parents are trying to get the best scholarship or academic assistance program for their daughter.
The first job of any DI coach in any sport is to secure the state's best athletes, and the UM has not done that the last two years. However, Thunstrom, Jones, Hogan, Roberts, McDonald, all made bigger contributions as Freshmen than anyone could have predicted. And brooky makes a good point about timing and the needs of the team.
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MNHockeyFan
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Re: Minnesota Players
Correct me if I'm wrong, but schools in the Ivy League do not give out any athletic scholarships. The only criteria used in evaluating how much assistance they give is financial need. Many other fine Eastern schools do award athletic scholarships. But if someone like Katerine Chute is choosing between Dartmouth, Harvard and Yale - when other scholarship-giving schools would obviously love to have her - then money is NOT an issue for this family. For someone else, choosing between a Minnesota/BSU/SCSU/Mankato etc and one of the Ivy's where money IS an issue, then Minnesota or one of the other state schools would have more of an advantage.girlshockey wrote:I don't think you can blame it all on the recruiting of the U of M, I think that players and their parents are trying to get the best scholarship or academic assistance program for their daughter. You must remember that some of the players get scholarship money as a fifth year student since colleges recommend that they not take a heavy load of classes to graduate in four years. That leaves less money for scholarships for incoming players.
All that said, I agree with all of your other points above!
Every top school is going to lose a blue chipper in every sport every year for various reasons. Whether it be the kid just wants to move away from home to just wanting to play where a family member played. All that considered, I still feel the U of M relys too much on having home grown talent fall in their lap when it comes to womens hockey, and the lure of other teams banging on their doors and taking the steps to get them away from the dream of maroon and gold is happening too often it seems. Also, they've given scholarships to "projects" rather than sure fire ready to go type players.
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girlshockey
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When I was talking about the fifth year student getting funds, I was only referring to the U of M. I am well aware that the Ivy League schools do not give scholarships, but they do give assistance. I also think with Natalie Darwitz and Lindsay Wall not coming back last year, the U of M didn't get a chance to fill those positions because some of the top players had already committed in an early signing. I am not defending the U of M in any way. They do need to step up and recruit the Minnesota player. I wonder if some of the players think they will be riding the bench as freshman and by going to a different school that they will get to play right away. There are so many variables here and we don't always know how much money other schools have offered these top players either. The top players probably have numerous offers and need to figure out what is best for them academically also since very few of these women will earn a living from hockey.
TOP PLAYER HMMMM
Perhaps most interesting in this and most over looked is the the fact that you all Speak of the "Top" players. What is the definition of that? a forward that scores a ton of goals? A great defender that scores little? a Great play maker with a ton of asssits but few goals. How about a defensive forward that you can count on providing coverage in every situation. How about the power play specialist that sees the ice so well that she fills a hole in a power play. Perhaps your talking about the girl that blocks 5 shots per game. Or perhaps the girl who's on ice skills are only average but that demonstrates such leadership qualities that she is invaluable in the locker room. All to often news paper headlines and statistics over shadow team needs and and replacment of players lost to graduation. Every one of the issues I talked about are key issues to a team. Last time I looked very few that do them all if anyone. Top player are those that fill your team needs and the ability to do that is what you should judge any coach by IMO.
I think a number of things are being overlooked in this discussion, primarily what the athlete herself wants. In talking with a number of players about why they chose a school, I've found that there is a wide range or reasons, starting with their academic goals, the "feeling" they got from the girls currently on the team, their desire to see somewhere new (small town kid likes big city, small town kid likes small city by ocean, city kid wants bucolic setting and doesn't mind smell of cow poo [UNH] ) interaction with the coaching staff, interaction with professorts, and so on.
Another thing that I've heard mentioned in a subtle way, is ecape from the pressure of having to play in front of a "home town" crowd, and the expectations that go with it. These girls are aware of boards like this, and the discussions that surround teams and players, and the glare of the spotlight isn't for everyone. When teams win a number of National Championships that pressure is magnified, and the players realize that there is a chance that the team will have an off year. They know there will be fallout from all sorts of "experts" on who failed and why.
And, as mentioned, there is also the lure of being a bigger fish in a smaller pond somwhere else. As we all know hockey is a game of confidence, and it is a lot easier to succeed when you have the confidence that your game is going well. Sit on the bench behind some established stars and even a blue chippah might take a few dings in the armor.
Another thing that I've heard mentioned in a subtle way, is ecape from the pressure of having to play in front of a "home town" crowd, and the expectations that go with it. These girls are aware of boards like this, and the discussions that surround teams and players, and the glare of the spotlight isn't for everyone. When teams win a number of National Championships that pressure is magnified, and the players realize that there is a chance that the team will have an off year. They know there will be fallout from all sorts of "experts" on who failed and why.
And, as mentioned, there is also the lure of being a bigger fish in a smaller pond somwhere else. As we all know hockey is a game of confidence, and it is a lot easier to succeed when you have the confidence that your game is going well. Sit on the bench behind some established stars and even a blue chippah might take a few dings in the armor.
Re: When will Halderson quit relying on the U name?
I'm hearing a rather sweet rumor from multiple, and what I consider reliable sources regarding one '07-'08 blue chipper which may force you to rethink your previously expressed opinion...at least a little.titleist wrote:It seems to me Laura has leaned too hard on having the states best players fall in her lap because they want to stay at home and be able to play in front of friends and family. Meanwhile all the other teams have been stealing away alot of the best kids. Based on what I've seen, the U didn't have a very good year when it came to landing the states blue-chip players. It just seems that the other coaches are working a lot harder to land these kids than she is.
...and the '08 U recruit class is shaping up to be a very fine class indeed with this very real possibility...and providing Idalski is unsuccessful in his attempt to undermine those previously made verbals.
Halldorson & Gopher Recruiting
I do like to let the individual, and or team make the announcement. I also want to stress the fact it is a rumor only at this point, albeit, amidst circumstances regarding sources as previously mentioned...the rumor involves the sniper from Bemidji. Currently playing well in LP.titleist wrote:Oh do tell!!
I'm confident you can figure that out. Been mentioned a few times in the women's college hockey forum.
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Hockeyguy_27
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Exactly, and it is similar on the Men's side. I'm a Gopher through and through but the perceived arrogance of the U's coaches is not helping them. The best players are not simply going to beg to come to U just because it is the U.titleist wrote:Every top school is going to lose a blue chipper in every sport every year for various reasons. Whether it be the kid just wants to move away from home to just wanting to play where a family member played. All that considered, I still feel the U of M relys too much on having home grown talent fall in their lap when it comes to womens hockey, and the lure of other teams banging on their doors and taking the steps to get them away from the dream of maroon and gold is happening too often it seems. Also, they've given scholarships to "projects" rather than sure fire ready to go type players.
Schedule
On another Gopher related note, if you look closely, it appears a couple local "legends" will be visiting Ridder with their teams next season. I'm really looking forward to it myself...as, after watching them play fairly extensively in their high school days, I did not expect to have the opportunity to watch them play college hockey.
http://www.gophersports.com/SportSelect ... PSID=38867
http://www.gophersports.com/SportSelect ... PSID=38867
She did indeed leave, and will be playing at Harvard next year, and should really help fill the void left by Julie Chu's graduation. If she ends up on a line with Vaillaincourt she could rack up some pretty impressive points.Bensonmum wrote:Speaking of which, does anybody know if Anna McDonald left the team (BC) and if so, where she ended up transferring to?
And is there any chance that we'll see Lindsey Wall playing for the U this year (I would assume this year would be her last chance)?
I understand that Wall's number has been given to Miss Rassmussen.
Bensonmum wrote:
Speaking of which, does anybody know if Anna McDonald left the team (BC) and if so, where she ended up transferring to?
And is there any chance that we'll see Lindsey Wall playing for the U this year (I would assume this year would be her last chance)?
Hux wrote:
Bummer on both accounts.She did indeed leave, and will be playing at Harvard next year, and should really help fill the void left by Julie Chu's graduation. If she ends up on a line with Vaillaincourt she could rack up some pretty impressive points.
I understand that Wall's number has been given to Miss Rassmussen.
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puckmaniac
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I agree. I was also hopeful that Anna would end up in a Gopher jersey, and a little disappointed it didn't happen. There is another way to look at the circumstances...and ultimate outcome of related events, or events in question though that makes getting over that disappointment a little easier...maybe more than a little, which puckmaniac touches on. That being, there's a terrific bunch of 2007-2008 senior forwards out there...and the Gophs might not have had room for any of them had Anna ended up in Maroon and Gold. So you have an "AM" for three seasons vs. "fill in the blank" for four seasons...that "fill in the blank" being one...dare I say two gifted forwards.puckmaniac wrote:IMO, landing the Lamoureux twins and the Bemidji sniper from the 2008 graduating class makes the Gopher staff look pretty darn slick!
More Good News
I hear you can add K. Seeler & A. Grogan to the list. I'd call that a very nice class of recruits.puckmaniac wrote:IMO, landing the Lamoureux twins and the Bemidji sniper from the 2008 graduating class makes the Gopher staff look pretty darn slick!
HMMMM something to consider
Hey Brooky consider this:
If you went out and got the very best Carberator avaialable from Ford,and then went and got the best electronic ignition from General moters, and then the best transmission from toyota the car may run but not anywhere as well as it could. because its not the way they were made. get my point ?
If you went out and got the very best Carberator avaialable from Ford,and then went and got the best electronic ignition from General moters, and then the best transmission from toyota the car may run but not anywhere as well as it could. because its not the way they were made. get my point ?
Re: HMMMM something to consider
I think so...but I'm not sure I agree on that points validity in this case. Or in many other examples of recruiting for the future...for that matter.Media wrote:Hey Brooky consider this:
If you went out and got the very best Carberator avaialable from Ford,and then went and got the best electronic ignition from General moters, and then the best transmission from toyota the car may run but not anywhere as well as it could. because its not the way they were made. get my point ?