New in-house mite program

[Around the boards]

I hear there is going to be a new in-house mite program run out of Minnesota Made Hockey this winter for some of the area's top mite age kids....I guess they are going to get 100 hours of ice time during the winter for a $1000 per kid.....I think six teams.....

[HockeyRocks1]

More Psycho ideas coming from Hockey East......This will be great for the big money daddy's living through their kids.

[northwoods oldtimer]

That what it's all about....inflating the oversized ego of overzealous parents and cash in while the iron is hot. Maybe this group can land a few tournaments in Las Vegas, Moscow, Toronto and Chicago while they are at it.

[elliott70]

If true - the participants' parents are complete i d i o t s.

And the organizers are very greedy.

[stripes]

I was there a few weeks ago for a couple tourney games. The 'Mite League " flyer almost promised a D1 scholarship. Think it will fill up? I would agree with Elliots's take on the parties involved.

[skillbuilder]

There are certainly parents who fit that profile out there and this may be the wrong thing for many kids. You can only hope that parents make good informed choices for there kids based on what they know about their players makeup and skills that we do not know. For some select skaters who are physically and emotionally ready, this is potentially a good opportunity for them to play with and against similarly skilled players, which you all know I have been a strong advocate of from the beginining. We know there are clubs that don't consistently provide the quality of instruction or developmental content that others do and it's not fair to ask parents to settle for. If clubs don't offer competitive teams for elite players to play on, don't allow early move ups etc., that makes this a viable product for certain kids. Is every one of the hundred plus families that are looking at this wrong? That would be a pretty bold and arrogant statement to make. Minnesota hockey has a singular opportunity to continue to evolve to new levels of excellence and I believe there is a newfound willingness to enhance it's offerings that you will see going forward. A participation based model can't serve all kids. The objective is to try and serve the maximum number that you can without bias, selfish interference, and with humility and a willingness to evolve.
These types of new venues are only over the top, if parents do it for the wrong reasons or if the players in question are not the right kids based on maturity, personality, or an intense passion for the game at an earlier than normal point.

[shoot to thrill]

The problem with ideas like this is not what they do with mites but what is the long term objective. If a player is playing here as a mite because they don't have enough players at their age who are superstars like them, then their parents will likely never feel that there are enough superstars like their little guy in their association. MM is a money making factory as evidenced by the numerous 'special things' they do that are designed to bleed money from parents who think their kid is on the way to the NHL. Here are the steps I see in this process over the next few years,

1) set up harmless league for mites...make $$$
2) more parents wanting their mites to join in future years so you start 'limiting' the number (ie. cut the bad ones). This makes it more elite and who cares about the 'little guys' feelings anyway.
3) as kids get older parents don't want their superstar to go back to association so start offering an 'elite' league and try to find teams to play. Maybe sneak into a few association tournaments and beat up on their teams...make more $$$ and prove that when you get rid of the 'bad' kids you can win more games.
4) association teams can't compete with the superstar teams so you provide a service to help form teams in other areas of Minnesota to create superstar teams for you to play...make more $$$
5) AAA teams year round in a league being run by MM...make big $$$

Nothing wrong with making money and certainly nothing wrong with big ideas. But, sometimes you have to decide what's best for hockey in Minnesota...not just what you can sell to parents of mites. Developing hockey players can be done in the off-season and then let them play with their friends and associations during the season. This will ultimately help the H.S. programs by keeping kids together and keep parents from trying to decide little Johnnies future at age 6 or 7.

By the way, isn't this what every one was complaining about when talking about public vs. private schools? Private schools 'recruit' hockey players to make them better was the argument. MM has just found a way to start the process at mite age instead of waiting until Bantams.

[nickel slots]

My gut tells me that MN Made is trying galliantly to "buck the system" as it relates to MN Hockey. In other words, somebody is trying to start up a year around AAA program right under the nose of MN Hockey. Starting out with 6 teams of mites, evolving into 5 squirt teams, trimming down to 4 pee wee teams, 3 bantam teams, then ultimately having only 2 16U teams that will eventually morph into one 18U midget hockey team that can compete with the Shattucks of the world takes time. Mites seems like the most logical place to start for somebody willing to put in the time and effort to develop such a program.

I don't know if it's right or wrong, it's too early to tell... but that's what this appears to be at face value.

I give MN Made credit for having the audacity to try it.

[spin-o-rama]

It looks to me like they're trying to establish a development/recruiting pool for their 'pride academy'.

from their website.

Future Pride Academy School



"The Minnesota Hockey School"

This Executive Summary has been prepared for those who share a common vision and passion for combining high quality education and the development of youth hockey players to the elite levels in Minnesota. Over the past 13 years Minnesota Made Hockey has a proven track record of developing Minnesota players into the most elite players in the country. The Pride Academy will offer the same level of excellence in education including the following:

A private elementary and middle school for 3rd -8th grade
Principal along with 1 teacher per class grade
24 students per class - 6 classes - limited to 144 boy students
Teachers/instructors doubling as coaches/trainers
Hockey part of the students day - 1 ½ hour of ice per day
Focus on developing players skills and athleticism
Hockey theory and strategy would be part of curriculum
Hockey would be part of entire school year - Sept-May
Dry land training for strength, agility and speed
Tuition to be $12,000-15,000 per year

[elliott70]

Give me 20 seven year olds from just about any northern MN community over the Christmas break at $5 per kid. $5 will be enough to buy hot chocolate and give the outdoor rink attnedant(s) something.

You will get as many D1 kids from the 20 as you get from the 120 kids.
Parents will be happier and the 20 kids will turn out better (as communtiy members).

Its not the money, its the kids and the guy teaching them about hockey (insert whatever sport you want) and life.

Now if they are second year pee-wees and you want to spend a little and put together same skilled kids for part of the year, you have a different story.

A $1000 for 100 hours of ice for 7 & 8 year-olds???
Better idea - skates, stick, helmet and a puck or tennis ball and out the door you go. Come in when you are hungry or cold.

[northwoods oldtimer]

Elliott70,
Could not have been better stated. Skill builder needs to read all of Danny Bylsma's books. Oh yes and mandatory reading for MM staff as well. I think Skill builder would be a great spin doctor for either political party in Washington....master in the art of double speaking nonsense.

[skillbuilder]

The world is evolving. We are smarter than our parents and our kids are smarter than us. We can hang on to our current beliefs or we can move into the 21st century. It's about similarly skilled kids playing together which I have found has better developed the kids I've been entrusted to teach than virtually anything else. It's not about elite skill or lower skill it's about similar skill. Playing up doesn't work if it's too far up and playing down doesn't work as "most kids play to level they are placed". a recent quote from a MN Hockey district director. Playing laterally is the ticket. Over the years my kid has often been a bubble kid and he didn't get to play with and against many kids that were at his skill level during those bubble years. I am convinced he did not develop during those years like he did when he played with kids similarly skilled and that's all I've ever said in this forum. Change is uncomfortable and people often resist it at first but it is inevitable. You can embrace it and participate in it or watch it happen. The choice is up to you but you will have little success trying to stop it so you may want to be involved so it can be managed change.

[SEC Scotty]

I got the flyer in the mail a week ago. $400 deposit, refundable if you mite doesn't make the cut. I told him he could play, and I would pay, if I got half his NHL salary.

[Around the boards]

Let's face it it's all about the money and a private entity taking advantage of the situation.

Truth be told though, mite programs are generally intro to hockey levels in most associations.

Parents often complain the mites rarely get any indoor ice time except on weekends and are at the mercy of mother nature as to whether they have any outdoor ice.

Year-in and year-out there is always group of gung-ho mite parents in each association that feel their child is the next Marion Gaborik...and the development of their sons, and in some cases daughters, is being stunted by playing with lesser skilled players. The parents, many of them former hockey players themselves, feel their gifted kids need more of a challenge if they are going to stay on the fast track.

So along comes a group, who owns an arena and is in business to sell ice time, that creates a league that caters to the egos of the parents who feel their mite superstars need better competition to reach their potential sooner. Good for them.

You just know there will be hundreds of kids applying to tryout for this program.

I can just imagine how much better Gaborik would be today if only he had this type of unique skill development opportunity when he was growing up in Slovakia.....

[OU812]

No doubt change is coming. On the whole, the associations have not been able to make enough of the truly elite kids (and their parents) happy, and this is the result. I'm not saying it's a good trend, only that it's true, at least in the youth hockey "marketplace".

Plus, be honest about the results here. Minnesota Made has the top 96 team in the country, period. Bernie McBain also ran the Minnesota 88's, and we all know 10 of those kids went to the top. The Minnesota Made teams have passed the Blades teams in on-ice success, overall, and nobody thought that could ever happen. BTW, I'm not sure how many Roseau kids would pass up these opportunities if they were within a twenty minute drive . . .

I have no kids on Minnesota Made teams; never been to a MM camp. Still, you have to acknowledge success, and also ask the people who are actually a part of the MM programs. How many parents complain when their kid is chosen for the Machine or Deuce? None that I've heard. Quite the opposite. The kids at the very top are quite eager to stay with McBain, as far as I can tell. Hard to blame McBain for running his program in a way that has worked out so well, so far.

Private enterprise has also built the new Velocity Center, the new place in Lakeville, and change is really in the air. The Associations should take note and see where improvements can be made; then everybody wins. I hope it works out for the kids.

[Pucknutz69]

Pretty simple math here folks..................don't get involved if you don't like it or think it's a good idea.

[greybeard58]

We are talking about 7 and 8 year old kids. At this age no one is physically or emotionaly developed, and maybe the talk of the elite athlete at this age level should stop. These players are learing how to skate and later keep the puck on their stick. Most of the kids play because thay are having fun and are more worried about the treat after practice.
If a kid at this age after practice still want to go to the outdoor rink after a practice inside then you have a hockey player, these kids need more time just being at the rink and playing shinny with the rest of the kids of all ages.

The comment I will make about the smarter parents of today is that the educational benefits are definately better then when I went to school in the early 60"s or when my father went to school in the 20's. My father farmed with horses and steam engines and lived to see a man on the moon that is quite a jump in learning in 70 years. The parents of old were community based and everybody tried to work together for the best for all, there are a lot of parents today that are just for me and that is sad and you can pick each one out at the game.

When your private businessman go to their AAA hockey games they see $$$$$; when I and a lot of others like me go to games we see children playing a game whether mites or Bantams, Girls 8 or 14u they are still children playing a game whether A,B, or C level and some day after highschool some will advance to higher levels mostwill continue to get an education and get jobs.
Some numbers for you, last year Mn Hockey through the Districts registered a total of 50653, of this 35,145 were paid players and 7,180 were free(initiation and so forth). The challenge to all is to keep those 7,180 skating and not quiting before their 12th birthday.

[ozone1]

Tough call, I've witnessed first hand what these kind of hockey opportunities can bring for mite players. I have lived in parts of the country where hockey doesn't have numbers and community based team's are non-existent. But when they take 7& 8 year old kids and pool them together from metro area's, get good trainers giving quality instructions and they get consistent indoor ice all winter they would embarrass and mercy any community based team here in Minnesota. I feel the Minnesota programs are great and service the massive amount of kids that want to give hockey a go. But when you have parents that have played and want what's best for their little guy how could you argue against this kind of deal. I'm not sure what kind of effect this will have long term on the community based teams but it's probably not going to help any. The only farce I see in this league starting up is "making the cut ?" Please, I was involved with an NHL team as the community youth hockey liaison and I've trained hundred's of 5-8 year olds and you don't cut them you do what you say your going to do you DEVELOP & TRAIN them if you have any confidence in your abilities.

[skillbuilder]

Club hockey is more a me thing everyday but so much of that is bred from the favoritism, the politics etc. and it often starts at the top within the board or through the parent coaching ranks which teaches other parents well as to how it's done. It is hard to accept your medicine year after year as a non-connected parent and you can see the frustration in the stands. There needs to be less to loose by playing down a level and that can be done by having numerous levels with only a dozen or so kids in each. That way, the team above your skater isn't even that much better than the one he's on and so who cares. It's when the 23rd best peewee player gets a spot on the A team and the 10th best player ends up on one of 2 B-1 teams and gets the priviledge of playing on a line with the 53rd best kid. (53 not 45 because of favoritism) thats when you see parents at there wits end. It was easier to be a more loyal member of the community in the past when far less of that was going on.

[northwoods oldtimer]

The Canadians call the 10-13 year age group the golden years for development and they have a lot of good development programs up there that work,well and also allow for kids to play and develop in other sports as well (Calgary model). If you clowns think that pushing 7 and 8 year olds into some type of "elite" status mindset you need your heads examined. Why make a kid at age 7 or 8 feel like they missed the cut for this elite type BS? If Herbie Brooks were around he would puke. He talked about growing the pyramid but there are a lot of numbskulls in this state that let those words fall flat. This is plain stupid for 7 and 8 year olds. It is all about the dollar plain and simple, the rest is pure hogwash.

[GoldenBear]

At any age/any sport having kids participate with children of equal abilities allows for the best development for the highest and lowest level. Our schools have been doing it for years, I don't complain when my kid isn't in the advanced math class, I'm happy that someone realizes he can't learn at the pace the advanced do and a class/league allows for him to develop at a pace that best suits his current skill level. It also sets the bar for him to practice to try and get to the upper level....if he chooses. By the way, baseball and soccer have travel teams at the 8 year old level.

What's wrong with having another option available to the kids? I thought freedom of speech/choice etc is a good thing in America.

Also, for what its worth, my understanding is that most of these kids will still be playing association hockey while they are doing Bernie's deal so it should only help the associations....unless having good skaters at the mite association is a bad thing.

[demongoed]

Hopefully MN Made with have counselors on hand to deal with the devastated parents whose talented little Johnny, the star of the team when he was 8, doesn't make the cut at age 11. And hopefully little Johnny won't think his career is over when he gets the ax at age 11. Oh, wait, I guess his career would be over, since most experts would agree that you can identify the best players before they leave elementary school.

[shoot to thrill]

Based on some of what I've seen on this board, it makes you wonder how good Wayne Gretzky could have REALLY been if he'd ONLY had a chance to develop with kids that were at his same level. But poor ol' Wayne wasted his time up at the outdoor park playing shinny hockey with his buddies at age 7. What a shame.

I'm all for helping the best skaters get better but I think the program we've used with AAA hockey in the summer and association hockey in the winter has worked pretty well. Kids at age 7 need time to hang with their buddies at the local outdoor parks if they really want to get good. Besides, trying to do BOTH programs (which I don't think is allowed) would be an awful lot of skating for a 7 year old.

Anyway, MM will provide the program and I'm sure people will flock to it begging to give him more $$$. But the true hockey players will find their way to success with or without Bernie's programs.

[skillbuilder]

You can not participate on a second USA Hockey sanctioned team during the season but can persue outside camps, training, and games that are not affiliated. Golden Bear makes some common sense points. People just want a good product and are willing to pay for it in todays world. One size does not fit all. This will only help club hockey in the end as they will need to create a better product and limit the shinanigans going forward or they will losse players to other venues.

[Sticks24]

Can you say "Show me the money". That is all this is about, nothing else. A privately run rink has to be filled all year long to make any money. They don't have an association to buy ice, so why not create a mite league. $90,000 for the winter can pay a lot of bills.

As far as parents or kids wanting to play in this league, more power to them. Some kids will benefit and other kids will not. Some families will sign up for the right reason and some for the wrong. I think each family should look at the opportunities they have in their own association for development and make a decision that is best for them. If I was in Wayzata or Edina, probably not, but if I was in a smaller association and my son was heads and tales above everyone else then sure. Don't get me wrong, I am sure there will be kids from every large association in the metro playing as well. Does this mean that these teams will be the best in North America, not even close. He is going to get 90 families that are willing to spend $1000. No problem doing that. But that doesn't mean that he is going to get $1000 from the best 90 kids in the metro. If you took the top 90 kids in any one age group in the Twin Cities the talent pool from top to bottom drops off pretty dramatically. Parents should not get fooled by the word Elite. The other issue that parents should be very careful on when deciding to sign their son up or not is that what happens when their son leaves the association because they are "Better then everyone else" and then try to make the squirt A team the next year. Does your child get the same look as some kid that stayed and played mites in the association.

This is going to happen and every association is going to have kids leave. As an association, don't worry about it too much. Worry about the kids that are playing in your association and developing them to the best of your ability.