Multiple Classes?

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:11 am

I couldn't tell you exactly what the MSHSL's goals are, but having multiple classes give the little guy a shot at a title. Just like why there are multiple divisions in college sports. But what about the years that the little guy could really be the best? Would a one class system in ALL sports be best? Then we'd be able to see who the real champ is instead of people just arbitrarily denoting the highest class champ THE champ?

I'm on the fence about this. Hockey is a no brainer, but it's in the same system as the rest of the sports. Swimming, CC, Nordic, Track wouldn't be bad in one class. The only two possible problems I see are football and basketball. The likes of Stephen Argyle and Triton were mentioned. Both put together great football teams year in and year out, but in 100 games how many would they have a shot at getting half the points Cretin or Eden Prairie get? But on the flip side, with an uninjured Shane Potter, Becker could've played with anyone. Braham in basketball probably could've done all right if they were up against more better teams. Seeing a huge bracket in all sports would be quite awesome, especially when the little guy made it through.

What do others think?

pucknstick10 · Post by **pucknstick10** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 2:49 pm

I think there should be multiple classes in every sport. Some sports are going a little overboard with the amount of classes like 3 classes for golf. Multiple classes provides more athletes with the oppurtunity to play in the State tournament. I never played in the hockey tournament but I did play in the AA baseball tournament and it was the highlight of high school. If there is one class I may have not gotten the oppertunity to play. Most of the games at any state tournament are close and competitive and I dont feel that the multiple classes weakens the quality of play significantly (there are always exceptions, Trition football this year). In terms of finding a "real champ" why can't we just leave it at both teams were the State Champs. I'm sure the players from Hermantown weren't thinking that they weren't the real state champs they were in class A. I guess in conclusion I say keep things the way they are and let twice as many kids get to play at the big dance...remember high school sports are for the kids and not the fans who want to see one champ.

Can't Never Tried · Post by **Can't Never Tried** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:06 pm

Crap! looks like he's snagged one.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:24 pm

Ahhh, I think dat we should have lots and lotsa classes and then say dat dah lower classes could probably beat the upper ones.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:36 pm

I love it. Someone where it's not all about you and actually about the kids. We don't read that too often.

theref · Post by **theref** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:59 pm

Hockey could definately go to one class.............as long as you lump all of the private schools into the same division and give them one seed in the state tournament.

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:04 pm

theref wrote:as long as you lump all of the private schools into the same division and give them one seed in the state tournament.

Besides pure bigotry, why?

theref · Post by **theref** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:09 pm

Neutron 14 wrote:
theref wrote:as long as you lump all of the private schools into the same division and give them one seed in the state tournament.
Besides pure bigotry, why?

I don't even want to go down this road as I'm sure there is a half million boards on this topic already, but it all starts with the r word and the availabilty of private schools being able to do it.

Can't Never Tried · Post by **Can't Never Tried** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:12 pm

Packerboy should be around now anytime!

Knowlzee · Post by **Knowlzee** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:23 pm

There should be 3 classes. One for tiny sized outstate schools (no possible chance to win a Championship anyway),......one for the large suburban schools (with so many advantages, they should only compete against themselves),.....and one for the rest of the schools, which are JUST RIGHT,......sort of like the story of "The 3 Bears".

And then maybe there should not be any score documented. Then, it can more easily be debated which team played the best. The score just gets in the way,.....it's just too conclusive.

24 out of 150 teams would have "gotten the oppertunity to play" in the state Tournament. No players on the other 126 teams deserve the opportunity, anyway.

Yah,....2 classes is not enough,......4 is too many,.....but 3 is JUST RIGHT.

I heard back in the old days, there was only one class. How ridiculous is that,....only 8 teams that experience a state tournament, one from each geographic area of the state,.....and only one Champion, with only one trophy that says State Chanmpion on it?

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 5:27 pm

Off the meds again huh Knowlzee?

Can't Never Tried · Post by **Can't Never Tried** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 6:51 pm

Or everyone gets a trophy prior to the games...just like the little kids soccer games

1 Tourney 16 teams all in one place, winner takes all, and is crowned the best!

Nice to see ya chiming in Knowlzee

Indians forever · Post by **Indians forever** » Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:44 pm

1 class should be just fine! if single A is so good then they shouldn't gripe about having just 1 class! I do like the top 16 team idea

Knowlzee · Post by **Knowlzee** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:51 pm

And lets get rid of the A, AA, and AAA,......they can't all be A's. Lets be more descriptive,...and honest.

For instance, maybe the Tiny Outstate School Class should be called the Hopeless Class,.....because tiny enrollment schools like Roseau and Warroad have no hope of winning a real single class championship.

And maybe the Large Suburban School Class should be called the Invincible Class,.....because how can most teams compete in a real single class tournament with the likes of Wayzata and Eden Prairie, with all their money, population, and many other advantages.

Of course the recognized champion would come from the Middle Class,....those with hope, and no advantage, like Moorhead and Richfield (or Holy Angels),......the real championship.

Yup,....2 is not enough,.....4 is too many,......but 3 is JUST RIGHT.

And the best thing about 3 classes, with multi-champions,.....is then there will be even more emphasis on the new and progressive theme of having "gotten the oppertunity to play" in a tournament,.....rather than to emphasize the old and archaic theme of competing for a championship, that undisputably represents the winner as the Champion.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 7:43 pm

So the voting is 12-7 in favor of having multiple classes and yet the thread is all about having one class in football. That would be a sweet section tournament.

Those of you in favor just not posting?

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 11:30 am

Come on Knowlzee, loosen up a bit. Let us be free man. We should have lots of classes.

We should have one class for big suburban public schools; one for medium
sized ; and of course , one for small. Ill even go for a tiny class if you like.

We could place them in their class based on the amount of taxpayers money they waiste pretending that there is no God and teaching Kwanzaa and the latest "scientific" theory of evolution to be disproven by next year's theory based on the latest dig in Africa and /or a repostioning of the Huble telescope.

Then we can put all the hyphenated schools in one class for the "home town" team crowd.

Then we could put all of the faith based non public schools in one class so we know where to find them when the skin heads take over.

Then last, but not least, we could have a class based on the private schools that cost $ 15,000+/ year so we know who to tax to pay for all of this.

I just love classifications. It makes it so easy to form opinons on things.

TTpuckster · Post by **TTpuckster** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 12:40 pm

We should have two classes:

Each with 16 teams.

We would rate the top 16 with no concern for school size and put them together for the AAAAAAAAAA tourney.

Then we would take the bottom 16, (again, no concern for school size), and put them together for the ZZZZZZZZZZ tourney, (no pun intended but............).

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:05 pm

Now you are talkin puckster.

But hey, how about throwin in a Class EZ. Can you imagine the feeling of pride that would rush over the kids when they say:"We won the EZ Class"

But thats what we learn form athletics , right? Take the EZiest way possible to athletc "accomplishment".

Neutron 14 · Post by **Neutron 14** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:18 pm

How did the class system work out for King Louis XVI and Marie-Antoinette?

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:25 pm

Let them eat cake.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 3:20 pm

So, this got taken out of the Hockey forum because some didn't think it had anything to do with hockey. So, can we talk about the rest of the sports? We'll just assume hockey is totally different and the rules for other sports don't apply; assuming all that, how should the classes be formed for other sports? Should there be classes?

Should Stephen Argyle be going out for the same trophy as Eden Prairie? Should Braham have had the chance to play for the top classes trophy?

Personally, I see no reason to have more than one class for any sports aside from football and basketball.
As for hockey, one class would be so much better. It would make regular season play better too. Then Hermantown would probably schedule some better teams. Then the worse current AA teams could play worse competition instead of having to try to schedule AA teams.
The big con would be loss of revenue and loss of exposure. It would encourage good small teams to stay together, but would also encourage good kids on bad teams to leave. Just some pros and cons in my opinion.

Knowlzee · Post by **Knowlzee** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:12 pm

Now your getting carried away, Packerboy. Although more classes is very progressive,......and many more players would have "gotten the oppertunity" to play in a state tournament. However, with too many classes, it may be difficult to distinguish a "recognized champion".

3 classes is JUST RIGHT. Ignore the Hopeless Class,.....because they are too small and uncapable of being a champion, anyway. Ignore the Invincible Champion,.....because with all those advantages, they would be the champion, every year,....not fair for the middle class.

The Middle Class is the "recognized champion". The largest class,....with at least hope of winning a single class championship,....and without the advantages of the Invincible Class.

The name EZ Class is intriguing. Maybe the Middle Class should be renamed the EZ Class, because without the Invincibles,....it really is the "EZ" Class.

For sure,....2 is not enough,.....4 is too many,......but 3 is JUST RIGHT.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 7:22 pm

Instead of repeating the same thing over and over, why not take this seriously?

Knowlzee · Post by **Knowlzee** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:58 pm

Can't get anything by the "watcher". Admittedly, Knowlzee voted for a single class tournament. The above posts are sarcastic attempts to get the proponents of multiple clases to think a little bit,....that doesn't hurt does it,.....to think a little bit?

Now lets get serious, then. Why is there a need for multiple classes,.....when tiny towns with 50 or less in a class can compete and win a state AA tournment?

Why is there a need for multiple classes,.....when rich large suburban teams with class populations of 500 or more, and state-of-the-art facilities, and endless advantages can not even get into the AA tournament, much less win it?

Even the great Holy Angels, with their supposed recruiting and getting the best players, and with a great coach hasn't made it out of section 5 the last 2 years. Should there be another private school class?

Multiple classes send our kids the message,.....that even though you can't achieve a state tournament, we are going to give it to you anyway. Is that the message we want to send?

Multiple classes promote the attitude of having "gotten the oppertunity",.....so the goal becomes just getting to state, rather than competing to win a championship. With multiple champions,....the trophy is nothing other than a glorified participation award.

Is that serious enough for ya, "watcher"?

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:24 pm

That's completely serious enough for me. I agree with you completely for hockey. And just about all sports. Maybe all but one. What do you think about how it applies to football? I think having one class in hockey would be great. I've said the only reason I don't think it would happen is because of how it works with all the other sports. One class for hockey would be a great thing. With the school I went to it wouldn't hurt for football either, but what about the kids who have less kids in their high school than Eden Prairie has on their football team? I'm not going one way or the other because I'm on the fence with this one, should they be competing for the same trophy?

The other sport I think is possible is basketball. We saw teams this year like Ellsworth who could easily get on the court with bigger school teams. It would be cool to see that, wouldn't it?

The one HUGE conflict I see here if we did go to one class would be the post season. If football had one class the post season would be bigger than the season.

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Multiple Classes?

How many classes in all sports?

Multiple Classes?

3 classes is.....just right.

More on 3 classes,....for Neut.

Two classes

3 is JUST RIGHT.

Lets get serious.