Big cities with multiple schools allowed only one team-WHY

whockeyguy · Post by **whockeyguy** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:05 pm

Why are large cities such as St Cloud and Rochester allowed to Have only one A team when they have 2 or more schools with in the city, but other cities have to abide By MN Hockey residency policy and players can not go play in another community. I believe it should divided by the school district lines just as everyone else has to do.

BantamAhockey1 · Post by **BantamAhockey1** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:12 pm

i agree you might as well play with the kids who u will play with in high school and its not fair to the smaller schools

Reggie · Post by **Reggie** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:37 pm

Duluth has East and the Lakers.

wtbearlk1111 · Post by **wtbearlk1111** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:17 pm

We need to go a two class system just like high school, A and AA.
That way we could have 64 teams going to regions this weekend.
Is this what you want?

Bucky · Post by **Bucky** » Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:39 pm

You should check your facts.........

Rochester has 2 "A" teams at every level.

U10Father · Post by **U10Father** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:15 am

Not at U10 they don't. Rochester onlyhas 1 team.

rachgr · Post by **rachgr** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:01 am

move where theres something else than hockey to worry about . so you can have a life and not worry about cities teams getting screwed Northern Mn has plenty to offer and you woundnt have to bitch about cities teams you could just laugh at them like the rest of us do

Mac15 · Post by **Mac15** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:17 am

U10Father wrote:Not at U10 they don't. Rochester only has 1 team.

I don't think there is a program in the state that has two 10UA teams except for Lakeville. Rochester has only one 10UA team and does not have a 10UB team participating in the District 8 league. At the beginning of the season we had only planned to have one 10U team because we have a park & rec program that is primarily girls that just started playing hockey either this season or last season. Out of that group we decided to register a 10UB team to participate in our girls tourney (against experienced travel programs) and they also went to one away tourney. They had fun so they have decided to set up a few scrimmage games too. They played 6 tournament games and may end up with 4 scrimmage games.

We are doing our best to grow girls hockey in Rochester but we have a long ways to go to catch up to Edina, Lakeville, Cottage Grove, Stillwater etc. We have two small teams that participate with our mites. Compare that to Edina that has eight 8U teams. http://www.edinahockeyassociation.com/t ... level1.asp
Lakeville has four 8U teams http://www.lakevillehockey.com/teams/398.html
Stillwater has four 8U teams
http://stillwater.pucksystems2.com/page/show/11145

blindref · Post by **blindref** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:36 am

St.Cloud tried two A bantam teams two years ago and it was a disaster. Ten kids left early for high school and both teams struggled. In District 10, the bigger programs like Centennial, Blaine, Elk River, Anoka and Champlin Park all have over 1.000 kids in their program. St.Cloud has a little over 500. St.Cloud skates two B1 teams in PeeWees and Bantams, the other large programs skate one A, one B1 and 2 B2 teams. Medium sized towns like Cambridge/Isanti, Chisago Lakes and Spring Lake Park all skate their top teams at the B1 level.

Don't worry, there is political movement behind the scenes to split the association. The problem is if you only have 60 bantams and 60 peewees you can only be so competitive.

thinkb4engaging · Post by **thinkb4engaging** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:47 am

Rochester does it right. They have A1 and A2 at each level. I would be interested in WHAT PERCENTAGE of their squirts, peewees and then bantams play A hockey. My guess is around 25%. Anyone know? In Edina, Wayzata,
etc. at the boys level they have around 10% playing A hockey. This is an injustice to 10-15% of the boys and their development. Smaller associations by numbers have around 25-33% of their players playing A hockey like Apple Valley, Roseau, and Hopkins. The larger association boards use the excuse that their parents would complain about the A2 team not doing well or the coaches at the B1 level do not want an A2 team (winning the state B1 title is more important) or maybe they should have two(2) equal A teams and the WHOLE PROCESS GETS BOGGED DOWN. It goes on and on and on...............then the association folks use the excuse that they lose their best players to private schools or that it must be the high school coach. Sound familar folks. .........at least Rochester has it figured out!

U10Father · Post by **U10Father** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:09 am

>U10Father wrote:
>Not at U10 they don't. Rochester only has 1 team.

>I don't think there is a program in the state that has two 10UA teams >except for Lakeville.

I know - I was just replying to the assertion that Rochester has multiple A teams "at every level." I just get tired of people thinking that "every level" doesn't include girls.

Rochester should be congratulated on their U10 program, it's one of the best in the state, with probably the best U10 player in the state.

Chuck Norris Fan · Post by **Chuck Norris Fan** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:18 am

blindref wrote:St.Cloud tried two A bantam teams two years ago and it was a disaster. Ten kids left early for high school and both teams struggled. In District 10, the bigger programs like Centennial, Blaine, Elk River, Anoka and Champlin Park all have over 1.000 kids in their program. St.Cloud has a little over 500. St.Cloud skates two B1 teams in PeeWees and Bantams, the other large programs skate one A, one B1 and 2 B2 teams. Medium sized towns like Cambridge/Isanti, Chisago Lakes and Spring Lake Park all skate their top teams at the B1 level.

Don't worry, there is political movement behind the scenes to split the association. The problem is if you only have 60 bantams and 60 peewees you can only be so competitive.

Get your facts straight your numbers are not right, more like 500 kids not 1000 and the associations have more than one B1 teams

thinkb4engaging · Post by **thinkb4engaging** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:23 am

Most girls programs do it right too. How many girls teams playing U10 hockey in Rochester? 2 or 3? One very good A team and 25-33% of their girls playing A hockey. By the way, this is where the larger association
have not had a chance to mess up on the percentages. For example, Wayzata has four(4) U10 teams which includes one(1) A team. They
actually have more than 25% of their players playing A hockey due to the fact that the B teams have just over two(2) lines and the A team has a full
17 players. Now the B players are getting great developmental opportunites
due to playing on a small team (by numbers). Similar to how Duluth runs their squirt boys program. Anyone taking notes in these larger associations or are you just getting defensive? How about making some positive changes to benefit the boys? ......no not more B1 teams!

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:23 am

Say blindref where did you find the numbers you are using? The last report given by the District Director of ten did not mention numbers that high, counting all coaches and players one is over 900,3 over 600, 3 over 500,5 over 300,4 over 200. Now if you only count players the numbers lower to 1 over 700, 2 over 500,4 over 400, 1 over 300,7over 200.
The largest association in District 10 is still smaller than some associations in Districts 2,3,6,8 and 11.
St Cloud hockey association is the only association in 10 that does not divide by school attendance area like, Champlin Park,Anoka, Andover,Blaine,Coon Rapids,Elk River and Rogers.

Mac15 · Post by **Mac15** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:01 pm

thinkb4engaging wrote:Most girls programs do it right too. How many girls teams playing U10 hockey in Rochester? 2 or 3? One very good A team and 25-33% of their girls playing A hockey. By the way, this is where the larger association
have not had a chance to mess up on the percentages. For example, Wayzata has four(4) U10 teams which includes one(1) A team. They
actually have more than 25% of their players playing A hockey due to the fact that the B teams have just over two(2) lines and the A team has a full
17 players. Now the B players are getting great developmental opportunites
due to playing on a small team (by numbers). Similar to how Duluth runs their squirt boys program. Anyone taking notes in these larger associations or are you just getting defensive? How about making some positive changes to benefit the boys? ......no not more B1 teams!

Here are the numbers for the Rochesters girls ... 116 girls play for Rec, 10UA, 12UB, 12UA, and 14UA teams. I'm not 100% sure but I think there is only one girl playing on a youth team this year (SQC). The three 'A' teams each have 14 players; a total of 42 A players out of 116 (over 36%). I doubt there are many youth (traditional boys) programs that would ever push 36% of their kids into an A level. Even though we know that some of our girls are not up to the 'A' skill level, we felt that we would lose too many of our better 14UA and 12UA players to high school (they would play at Century but would probably ride the pines for JM and Mayo) if we only rostered 'B' teams. The way our teams are set up we have 11-13 skaters and 1-2 goalies.

We have 56 girls between the ages of 8 and 10 that played either 10UB or park & rec. Almost half of them were playing for the first time and were not ready the time or $$ commitment required for traveling hockey.

What were our options for say...12U? 43 girls total - 14 played 12UA, 15 played 12UB (2-14-0 good for 16th place of 17 in D8 12UB) and 14 played rec. Could we have made two 12UB teams? Yes, but they certainly would not be competitive. Did the 12UB team improve over last year's team? Yes.

blindref · Post by **blindref** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:49 pm

greybeard58 wrote:Say blindref where did you find the numbers you are using? The last report given by the District Director of ten did not mention numbers that high, counting all coaches and players one is over 900,3 over 600, 3 over 500,5 over 300,4 over 200. Now if you only count players the numbers lower to 1 over 700, 2 over 500,4 over 400, 1 over 300,7over 200.
The largest association in District 10 is still smaller than some associations in Districts 2,3,6,8 and 11.
St Cloud hockey association is the only association in 10 that does not divide by school attendance area like, Champlin Park,Anoka, Andover,Blaine,Coon Rapids,Elk River and Rogers.

Grey, I saw these "rough" numbers posted somewhere in this forum a few months ago. Whoever it was mentioned that White Bear Lake, Wayzata and Stillwater were the largest association in the state; all well over 1,200 kids playing hockey.
If St.Cloud split by high school lines, there are about 400 Tech kids and 100 Apollo. Roughly 70-80 of all of these kids will end up at Cathedral.
These very rough numbers are from mini mite through bantams.

If Apollo were forced to skate by themselves they would have ten PeeWees total.

Chuck Norris, according to the District 10 website; only St.Cloud and Centennial field two B1 teams at the PeeWee and Bantam levels.

Bucky · Post by **Bucky** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:49 pm

U10Father wrote:>U10Father wrote:
>Not at U10 they don't. Rochester only has 1 team.

>I don't think there is a program in the state that has two 10UA teams >except for Lakeville.

I know - I was just replying to the assertion that Rochester has multiple A teams "at every level." I just get tired of people thinking that "every level" doesn't include girls.

Rochester should be congratulated on their U10 program, it's one of the best in the state, with probably the best U10 player in the state.

Ok my Bad, Your tired and so am I.......

To avoid confusion why not have another Forum?
There are already two forums for High School Hockey, so why not two for Youth Hockey?

egf hockey1 · Post by **egf hockey1** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:15 pm

blind ref posted that you can't be competitive only having 60 players at each level. The northern teams do it all the time with half of those numbers. Warroad, Roseau, EGF, Grand Rapids, Hermantown, Moorhead do just fine with half the numbers that you are talking about. All except Moorhead are easily under 35 per level.

And no, none of the northern teams are whining about the situation. I think I speak for all northern teams in that we just get sick of the cities teams talking about how good you are. You have 200 kids trying out at each level, you should be able to find 15 good ones.

Marty McSorely · Post by **Marty McSorely** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:24 pm

EGF

That's because the Northern kids are hockey players and the majority of the St. Cloud and south kids play hockey with their parents MONEY!

blindref · Post by **blindref** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:41 pm

egf hockey1 wrote:blind ref posted that you can't be competitive only having 60 players at each level. The northern teams do it all the time with half of those numbers. Warroad, Roseau, EGF, Grand Rapids, Hermantown, Moorhead do just fine with half the numbers that you are talking about. All except Moorhead are easily under 35 per level.

And no, none of the northern teams are whining about the situation. I think I speak for all northern teams in that we just get sick of the cities teams talking about how good you are. You have 200 kids trying out at each level, you should be able to find 15 good ones.

egf, I agree with you. The point I was trying to make is that it is hard to put together TWO sets of teams for TWO associations with only 60 kids and remain somewhat competitive. The north side of town doesn't have enough kids right now. I wish we had 100 kids at each level and enough players for two groups but we don't.

Marty, I wish we had as many good hockey players as they do up north.
We're not doing too badly lately.
SCSU: Matt Hartman, John Swanson
UM: Chris Harrington, Mike Howe (Nate Schmitt 2009)
MTU: Brandon Schwartz
UMM: RJ Linder

whockeyguy · Post by **whockeyguy** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:52 pm

To the Rochester faithful that stand behind the 2 A teams, they are NOT divided by school distirct boundries like every one alse in the state has to do,. These are different rules for these communities and why are they permitted by MN Hockey to do this.

hockeyknight · Post by **hockeyknight** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:43 am

Rochester needs an off-season option other than the one and two week camps to get these kids that want to excel on the ice a couple times a week.
In the Twin Cities and some/most areas up north, they have options to keep kids skating a couple times a week all summer. That's the difference.....maybe not all but some.

hockeyknight · Post by **hockeyknight** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:58 am

Best in the state??? a bit of a stretch....very good hockey player though

Bucky · Post by **Bucky** » Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:05 pm

whockeyguy wrote:To the Rochester faithful that stand behind the 2 A teams, they are NOT divided by school distirct boundries like every one alse in the state has to do,. These are different rules for these communities and why are they permitted by MN Hockey to do this.

The Rochester faithful did not claim the teams were divided by school boundries

As far as why they (Rochester) are allowed to do this, maybe
someone can answer that

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

Big cities with multiple schools allowed only one team-WHY

Big cities with multiple schools allowed only one team-WHY

Nope

Re: Nope

A1 and A2 teams

Clarifying

no more B1 teams

Re: no more B1 teams

Re: Clarifying

Big Deal

U10Father