Buffalo Association Development

[HOFam'r]

I am very interested in understanding your opinion of hockey development through you're Association. Last night I attended our Associations monthly Board meeting with a question?

"How does our Board justify making development part of my overall Ice Bill?"

My opinon is that if members 'choose' to have their child developed within their Association and then opt in and pay for clinics separately so be it. The Association should offer these opportunities and strive to make them as affordable and beneficial as possible. Of course our board is consists mostly of parents of A players who are very interested in development of their children. I think that type of committment is awesome however, I would hate to charge a family who has their kid playing for fun or a family interested in other forms of development in order to subsidize this development? If you like it then pay for it. I even asked if it was legal?

This only makes sense...but apparently only in my tiny mind. Instead our Association charges members for clinic instructors and Ice as part of their overall Ice Bill. Families are hamstrung because some families want their kid playing hockey for fun, some think the Association Development is great, and others would choose to spend their money elsewhere.

The result of this appears to be that Association size is shrinking...no the sky isn't falling but Buffalo Youth Hockey has not grown over the past 5 years.

Maybe it's partly because, if you play hockey in Buffalo you have NO choice and with numerous other problems increasing the price of hockey in Buffalo by 3 times it becomes a tough financial decision as well.

Tell me what's the right attitude here guys...I for one am lost....am I way off base? Does your Association charge you for Clinic Instructors, Dryland Development or other fee's not Associated with brass tax hockey?

[Can't Never Tried]

Hi Hof..
You are not off base...this time.... you should be paying only what's required for the particular teams fees are that you are associated with.

Clinics should be by choice, and fee based on attendance, or supported thru fundraising, or out of the general fund.

All these things should be laid out prior to registration..except possible dates.
Some teams want clothing and clinics and all kinds of stuff, IMO the rule of thumb is majority rules...if at the parent player coach meeting these things are decided, usually it's not a problem.

Bottom line though is that your team fees should not be higher to subsidize another team, or group of special players...the only exception I make to this is mini mites or learn to skate programs as they are so minimal in cost that it's negligible.

Also you should not be overcharged to build a cash reserve..that's wrong!.

[ExecutionTrumpsStrategy]

Hi Hof..
You are not off base...

Is this the end of the world?

HOFam'r....sounds like lots of problems in Buffalo! Happy to see you had the courage to stand up and question a youth hockey board....not done in too many circles without paying a hefty price!

[puckeyone]

Whats this world coming to, we are agreeing with Ho Farmer,if it is what your describing , your being taken to the cleaners by again the hockey coaches that want to take your money as a part time job, and call it hockey development , thats a joke!!! Do the instructors that you have to pay for take a vested interest in your kid, or do they take the MONEY and run, . Most run and run fast , usually within two years these people are long gone and ripping somebody else off,
I am sure the size of Buffalo , you have plenty of people that would love to help out the program but cant becuase they fear the DREADED hockey development committiee, which I bet includes the H.S, coaches.
Glad you asked the questions, hope you open some ears there and in other communities that read this
By the way why dont ask those on the your board why your numbers have dropped in the last years, i believe i was told about 20% drop. maybe thats why you have to pay so much,

[HOFam'r]

Buffalo has only 23 skater Bantams this season...by far the worst in recent memory...not sure the numbers in Pee Wee etc but would imagine numbers are way down...Hockey is expensive in Buffalo and has priced many out. Spin it anyway you'd like...numbers dont lie. Regarding, consquences....if my kid suffers for my opinion...then so be it and so what...if your kid is good enough they can't keep him off the team and if he's a bubble then have fun playing the game you love...you can always find somewhere to play. As for the people who want to own youth hockey...good luck getting yourself a life.

Remember, while life is many times not fair..there is also a basket full of solutions that can bring justice to those who are unfair....

[DMom]

Buffalo has only 23 skater Bantams this season...by far the worst in recent memory...not sure the numbers in Pee Wee etc but would imagine numbers are way down...Hockey is expensive in Buffalo and has priced many out. Spin it anyway you'd like...numbers dont lie. Regarding, consquences....if my kid suffers for my opinion...then so be it and so what...if your kid is good enough they can't keep him off the team and if he's a bubble then have fun playing the game you love...you can always find somewhere to play. As for the people who want to own youth hockey...good luck getting yourself a life.

Remember, while life is many times not fair..there is also a basket full of solutions that can bring justice to those who are unfair....

This has to be in the running for the best post ever on the youth side.

[Can't Never Tried]

Buffalo has only 23 skater Bantams this season...by far the worst in recent memory...not sure the numbers in Pee Wee etc but would imagine numbers are way down...Hockey is expensive in Buffalo and has priced many out. Spin it anyway you'd like...numbers dont lie. Regarding, consquences....if my kid suffers for my opinion...then so be it and so what...if your kid is good enough they can't keep him off the team and if he's a bubble then have fun playing the game you love...you can always find somewhere to play. As for the people who want to own youth hockey...good luck getting yourself a life.

Remember, while life is many times not fair..there is also a basket full of solutions that can bring justice to those who are unfair....

So HoF what is the cost to play PWA and Bantam A in Buff. this year?

[Silent But Deadly]

Buffalo has only 23 skater Bantams this season...by far the worst in recent memory...not sure the numbers in Pee Wee etc but would imagine numbers are way down...Hockey is expensive in Buffalo and has priced many out. Spin it anyway you'd like...numbers dont lie. Regarding, consquences....if my kid suffers for my opinion...then so be it and so what...if your kid is good enough they can't keep him off the team and if he's a bubble then have fun playing the game you love...you can always find somewhere to play. As for the people who want to own youth hockey...good luck getting yourself a life.

Remember, while life is many times not fair..there is also a basket full of solutions that can bring justice to those who are unfair....

So HoF what is the cost to play PWA and Bantam A in Buff. this year?

http://buffalo.pucksystems2.com/attachm ... edFees.pdf

I can help!

Bantam A $1895 based on 15 skaters.....they have 23 skaters for two teams and are talking about moving 2 up to high school. If you divide the total costs based on 11 or 12 kids the number will be much, much higher.

Not sure about the PeeWee numbers so for once I'll keep my mouth shut!

[Silent But Deadly]

Buffalo has only 23 skater Bantams this season...by far the worst in recent memory...not sure the numbers in Pee Wee etc but would imagine numbers are way down...Hockey is expensive in Buffalo and has priced many out. Spin it anyway you'd like...numbers dont lie. Regarding, consquences....if my kid suffers for my opinion...then so be it and so what...if your kid is good enough they can't keep him off the team and if he's a bubble then have fun playing the game you love...you can always find somewhere to play. As for the people who want to own youth hockey...good luck getting yourself a life.

Remember, while life is many times not fair..there is also a basket full of solutions that can bring justice to those who are unfair....

This has to be in the running for the best post ever on the youth side.

I am pretty certain that DMom is not HOFam'rs wife!

[Can't Never Tried]

Buffalo has only 23 skater Bantams this season...by far the worst in recent memory...not sure the numbers in Pee Wee etc but would imagine numbers are way down...Hockey is expensive in Buffalo and has priced many out. Spin it anyway you'd like...numbers dont lie. Regarding, consquences....if my kid suffers for my opinion...then so be it and so what...if your kid is good enough they can't keep him off the team and if he's a bubble then have fun playing the game you love...you can always find somewhere to play. As for the people who want to own youth hockey...good luck getting yourself a life.

Remember, while life is many times not fair..there is also a basket full of solutions that can bring justice to those who are unfair....

So HoF what is the cost to play PWA and Bantam A in Buff. this year?

http://buffalo.pucksystems2.com/attachm ... edFees.pdf

I can help!

Bantam A $1895 based on 15 skaters.....they have 23 skaters for two teams and are talking about moving 2 up to high school. If you divide the total costs based on 11 or 12 kids the number will be much, much higher.

Not sure about the PeeWee numbers so for once I'll keep my mouth shut!

Does that include mandatory fundraising? I didn't see it listed.
How many ice hrs does this provide? and tournaments?

I believe for Rogers bantams it's $1820.00 but that includes $150 mandatory fund raising and $200 deposit for volunteer hrs.

But if your talking 2370.00 because you only have 12 players...ouch!
How many ice hrs does this provide? and tournaments?

[muckandgrind]

So HoF what is the cost to play PWA and Bantam A in Buff. this year?

http://buffalo.pucksystems2.com/attachm ... edFees.pdf

I can help!

Bantam A $1895 based on 15 skaters.....they have 23 skaters for two teams and are talking about moving 2 up to high school. If you divide the total costs based on 11 or 12 kids the number will be much, much higher.

Not sure about the PeeWee numbers so for once I'll keep my mouth shut!

Does that include mandatory fundraising? I didn't see it listed.
How many ice hrs does this provide? and tournaments?

I believe for Rogers bantams it's $1820.00 but that includes $150 mandatory fund raising and $200 deposit for volunteer hrs.

But if your talking 2370.00 because you only have 12 players...ouch!
How many ice hrs does this provide? and tournaments?

What about charitable gambling? Does that figure into this as well?

That sounds like an awful lot of $$ for association hockey. Over $500 for Mites??? Wow...

[Can't Never Tried]

http://buffalo.pucksystems2.com/attachm ... edFees.pdf

I can help!

Bantam A $1895 based on 15 skaters.....they have 23 skaters for two teams and are talking about moving 2 up to high school. If you divide the total costs based on 11 or 12 kids the number will be much, much higher.

Not sure about the PeeWee numbers so for once I'll keep my mouth shut!

Does that include mandatory fundraising? I didn't see it listed.
How many ice hrs does this provide? and tournaments?

I believe for Rogers bantams it's $1820.00 but that includes $150 mandatory fund raising and $200 deposit for volunteer hrs.

But if your talking 2370.00 because you only have 12 players...ouch!
How many ice hrs does this provide? and tournaments?

What about charitable gambling? Does that figure into this as well?

That sounds like an awful lot of $$ for association hockey. Over $500 for Mites??? Wow...

Well IDK about Buffalo I thought they had pull tabs somewhere, but if I remember correctly... I think there was some gambling issues, so maybe that's gone.

Rogers Mites $485 + 150 mandatory Fund R + 200 deposit volunteer hrs, so things are tough all over, and they have no charitable gambling to help.

[Silent But Deadly]

What about charitable gambling? Does that figure into this as well?

That sounds like an awful lot of $$ for association hockey. Over $500 for Mites??? Wow...

For all practical purposes the gambling money has dried up in Buffalo. Between new competition, the smoking ban and the economy....they are struggling to keep their booths open.

I don't think the gambling problem is unique to Buffalo.

[GR3343]

Rogers Mites $485 + 150 mandatory Fund R + 200 deposit volunteer hrs, so things are tough all over, and they have no charitable gambling to help.

GR - $95 Mites + $150 Fund Raiser Last kid in the youth program

[OGEE OGELTHORPE]

I had know idea it costs this much to play hockey in these areas.
I can see why numbers are falling off.

I cringed last night writing a check for 125.00 at squirt sign up.
I guess its not so bad after all.

[RLStars]

River Lakes West (PNLS) District 5

Termites = $65 + ($25 equip. rental)
Mini-Mites' Mites = $85 + ($25 equip. rental + $15 cleaning fee)
Girls 10-U travel 7/1/97 to 6/30/99 $165
Girls 12-U travel 7/1/95 to 6/30/97 $165
Girls 14-U travel 7/1/93 to 6/30/95 $205
Squirt travel 7/1/97 to 6/30/99 $165
Peewee travel 7/1/95 to 6/30/97 $205
Bantam travel 7/1/93 to 6/30/95 $225
20 hours valunteer time required with a buyout option of 200.

Lowest cost hockey in the state

[muckandgrind]

River Lakes West (PNLS) District 5

Termites = $65 + ($25 equip. rental)
Mini-Mites' Mites = $85 + ($25 equip. rental + $15 cleaning fee)
Girls 10-U travel 7/1/97 to 6/30/99 $165
Girls 12-U travel 7/1/95 to 6/30/97 $165
Girls 14-U travel 7/1/93 to 6/30/95 $205
Squirt travel 7/1/97 to 6/30/99 $165
Peewee travel 7/1/95 to 6/30/97 $205
Bantam travel 7/1/93 to 6/30/95 $225
20 hours valunteer time required with a buyout option of 200.

Lowest cost hockey in the state

I'm assuming these are just registration costs. Do you know what the approximate monthly ice bills associated with each level?

[RLStars]

River Lakes West (PNLS) District 5

Termites = $65 + ($25 equip. rental)
Mini-Mites' Mites = $85 + ($25 equip. rental + $15 cleaning fee)
Girls 10-U travel 7/1/97 to 6/30/99 $165
Girls 12-U travel 7/1/95 to 6/30/97 $165
Girls 14-U travel 7/1/93 to 6/30/95 $205
Squirt travel 7/1/97 to 6/30/99 $165
Peewee travel 7/1/95 to 6/30/97 $205
Bantam travel 7/1/93 to 6/30/95 $225
20 hours valunteer time required with a buyout option of 200.

Lowest cost hockey in the state

I'm assuming these are just registration costs. Do you know what the approximate monthly ice bills associated with each level?

Zero dollars for ice bill. There is NO ice bill. The registration cost is what you pay for the season. Usually includes a home and away tournament. Extra ternament cost are split amung players on that team.

[SWPrez]

What about charitable gambling? Does that figure into this as well?

That sounds like an awful lot of $$ for association hockey. Over $500 for Mites??? Wow...

For all practical purposes the gambling money has dried up in Buffalo. Between new competition, the smoking ban and the economy....they are struggling to keep their booths open.

I don't think the gambling problem is unique to Buffalo.

Don't forget to add onto the gambling cost the fact that for every $1 that the kids receive, the state takes $2 in various taxes....and if your operation is struggling, the state still gets theirs.

Would be nice to organize all of the hockey charitable gambling operations into a lobby group that could lobby to decrease state taxes and provide more money for our kids! In my opinion...if we are going to pay taxes it should be for every $2 to our kids, $1 goes to the state.

[32HockeyFan]

I think STMA is $1300 for Bantams. So, the solution to this problem is for the top Buffalo players to move to St. Michael.

[Silent But Deadly]

I think STMA is $1300 for Bantams. So, the solution to this problem is for the top Buffalo players to move to St. Michael.

Heck we already gave you one of our coaches....ain't that enough!

[muckandgrind]

River Lakes West (PNLS) District 5

Termites = $65 + ($25 equip. rental)
Mini-Mites' Mites = $85 + ($25 equip. rental + $15 cleaning fee)
Girls 10-U travel 7/1/97 to 6/30/99 $165
Girls 12-U travel 7/1/95 to 6/30/97 $165
Girls 14-U travel 7/1/93 to 6/30/95 $205
Squirt travel 7/1/97 to 6/30/99 $165
Peewee travel 7/1/95 to 6/30/97 $205
Bantam travel 7/1/93 to 6/30/95 $225
20 hours valunteer time required with a buyout option of 200.

Lowest cost hockey in the state

I'm assuming these are just registration costs. Do you know what the approximate monthly ice bills associated with each level?

Zero dollars for ice bill. There is NO ice bill. The registration cost is what you pay for the season. Usually includes a home and away tournament. Extra ternament cost are split amung players on that team.

Who pays for the ice? Is this like Roseau where the ice time is funded though tax dollars? Or do they just play outdoors? Somebody has to pay for indoor ice.

[RLStars]

I'm assuming these are just registration costs. Do you know what the approximate monthly ice bills associated with each level?

Zero dollars for ice bill. There is NO ice bill. The registration cost is what you pay for the season. Usually includes a home and away tournament. Extra ternament cost are split amung players on that team.

Who pays for the ice? Is this like Roseau where the ice time is funded though tax dollars? Or do they just play outdoors? Somebody has to pay for indoor ice.

No, they don't play outside. There is an indoor rink in Paynesville and Richmond for the RIver Lakes coop teams. The PNLS youth hockey association owns the ice making equipmwnt and pays the ice staff in Paynesville. They have some charitable gambling, but the registration fees, concessions, tournaments and volunteer time pays enough to cover all costs. They even have summer ice. Its a pretty unique situation.

[muckandgrind]

Zero dollars for ice bill. There is NO ice bill. The registration cost is what you pay for the season. Usually includes a home and away tournament. Extra ternament cost are split amung players on that team.

Who pays for the ice? Is this like Roseau where the ice time is funded though tax dollars? Or do they just play outdoors? Somebody has to pay for indoor ice.

No, they don't play outside. There is an indoor rink in Paynesville and Richmond for the RIver Lakes coop teams. The PNLS youth hockey association owns the ice making equipmwnt and pays the ice staff in Paynesville. They have some charitable gambling, but the registration fees, concessions, tournaments and volunteer time pays enough to cover all costs. They even have summer ice. Its a pretty unique situation.

Wow, that's unusual. Is the rink "paid for"?

[Silent But Deadly]

No, they don't play outside. There is an indoor rink in Paynesville and Richmond for the RIver Lakes coop teams.

I've been there....that's not too far from being outside!