tryouts- what works- what doesnt

[puckboy]

post what you think works and what doesnt- this is not meant for people to argue individual points. Hopefully some associations can learn from this by adding or removing what they currently do.

[Lily Braden]

This may seem obvious, but for parents who are going thru the try-out process for the first time (or slow ones like me, who forget how it works year after year)...associations should post HOW TRYOUTS WORK.

Yes, they tell you where to go and at what time. But beyond that, it's a giant mystery.

Grading...what is it and who is doing the grading?

Once the kid is graded, what happens? Do we wait for a phone call, carrier pigeon, pony express?

What is a draft and what happens during the draft (well, what's SUPPOSED to happen, not what really goes on )

And once your kid is put in a group, should you wait for more phone calls? If you don't get a phone call, what does that mean?

I can't figure out why the association just doesn't post something that says...here's what happens at tryouts, here's our notification process and here's who you should call if you still don't get it.

I'm not quite sure why the whole thing needs to be shrouded in secrecy. It's not the Vatican...it's association hockey!

[DMom]

This may seem obvious, but for parents who are going thru the try-out process for the first time (or slow ones like me, who forget how it works year after year)...associations should post HOW TRYOUTS WORK.

Yes, they tell you where to go and at what time. But beyond that, it's a giant mystery.

Grading...what is it and who is doing the grading?

Once the kid is graded, what happens? Do we wait for a phone call, carrier pigeon, pony express?

What is a draft and what happens during the draft (well, what's SUPPOSED to happen, not what really goes on )

And once your kid is put in a group, should you wait for more phone calls? If you don't get a phone call, what does that mean?

I can't figure out why the association just doesn't post something that says...here's what happens at tryouts, here's our notification process and here's who you should call if you still don't get it.

I'm not quite sure why the whole thing needs to be shrouded in secrecy. It's not the Vatican...it's association hockey!

I think the answer to that is less mysterious than people would think. It's because all of that has to be done by volunteers. It's tough enough getting enough people in to hand out the pennies and run the gates (people who don't have kids at that level ). So, all of that is more work on volunteers who are already putting in 30 hour weeks. Yes, it seems simple to lay those guidelines out, but it isn't. The same goes for phone calls, maybe someone commits to calling 45 squirts and than gets home and finds kids throwing up and wife throwing things because she hasn't seen him in a week. It's 9pm and guess what no one wants a call at 10:30 at night, because, of course, each call requires answering questions not just giving information.

I was painting in our arena this weekend with a new volunteer and she kept asking why "they" didn't provide a drop cloth, did "they" have shoe covers, why didn't "they" have a bucket of soapy water available. Guess what, she is "they" and doesn't even get it. We all are. My biggest suggestion would be not to expect tryouts to be evil and manipulative but to look at them as what you can do to lighten the burden of the overburdened volunteers.

What? it's a tough week getting your kids there and mentally ready, etc, etc, and still get them to football or volleyball or whatever sport is still in season.....well, every one of those volunteers is doing that for their families and still finding the time to volunteer. Do people do it in their own self interest? Not for long, it's a lot of work.

[muckandgrind]

This may seem obvious, but for parents who are going thru the try-out process for the first time (or slow ones like me, who forget how it works year after year)...associations should post HOW TRYOUTS WORK.

Yes, they tell you where to go and at what time. But beyond that, it's a giant mystery.

Grading...what is it and who is doing the grading?

Once the kid is graded, what happens? Do we wait for a phone call, carrier pigeon, pony express?

What is a draft and what happens during the draft (well, what's SUPPOSED to happen, not what really goes on )

And once your kid is put in a group, should you wait for more phone calls? If you don't get a phone call, what does that mean?

I can't figure out why the association just doesn't post something that says...here's what happens at tryouts, here's our notification process and here's who you should call if you still don't get it.

I'm not quite sure why the whole thing needs to be shrouded in secrecy. It's not the Vatican...it's association hockey!

I think the answer to that is less mysterious than people would think. It's because all of that has to be done by volunteers. It's tough enough getting enough people in to hand out the pennies and run the gates (people who don't have kids at that level ). So, all of that is more work on volunteers who are already putting in 30 hour weeks. Yes, it seems simple to lay those guidelines out, but it isn't. The same goes for phone calls, maybe someone commits to calling 45 squirts and than gets home and finds kids throwing up and wife throwing things because she hasn't seen him in a week. It's 9pm and guess what no one wants a call at 10:30 at night, because, of course, each call requires answering questions not just giving information.

I was painting in our arena this weekend with a new volunteer and she kept asking why "they" didn't provide a drop cloth, did "they" have shoe covers, why didn't "they" have a bucket of soapy water available. Guess what, she is "they" and doesn't even get it. We all are. My biggest suggestion would be not to expect tryouts to be evil and manipulative but to look at them as what you can do to lighten the burden of the overburdened volunteers.

What? it's a tough week getting your kids there and mentally ready, etc, etc, and still get them to football or volleyball or whatever sport is still in season.....well, every one of those volunteers is doing that for their families and still finding the time to volunteer. Do people do it in their own self interest? Not for long, it's a lot of work.

Yes, "they" are volunteers....but when you decide to run for a board position, you also take on the responsibility of fulfilling your obligations. If you can't, than don't run..it's as simple as that. Nobody is forcing you to volunteer (and they shouldn't), but if you choose to do so, than you need to accept the responsibility that goes along with it. Nobody is denying that it can be hard work (as I know first-hand).

The previous poster is right. The tryout process should be posted on the associations website for all to see, and many associations do just that. The person responsible for running the tryouts and working with the coaches to finalize the teams should have a good plan to make it happen as smoothly and quickly as possible. Our association tells all the players and parents that they should be expecting a phone call on a specific date.

If it takes too long for someone to make phone calls, split the responsibility of making the calls with someone else or send out a group email. But you need to let everyone know what the results are on the same night.

[tomASS]

The kids usually know the results before the parents.
Results travel fast with texting.

Chaska use to assign players numbers and the results were posted on the web site via the use of the player's numbers. They probably still do it that way. It was convenient and it was amazing to see the web site hits increase exponentially when parents are looking for the results and they are not posted yet. The times people click on the site are also amazing
2, 3, 4 in the morning was not that uncommon for concerned parents.

The old way, the team's were posted at the community center in the morning when it opened up. The CCC opened at 5:30 AM and you would have cars lined up and parents at the doors waiting for the results.

Always good humor to watch the reactions

[tomASS]

It also helps to have on-ice evaluators that know how to skate, do not fall down and hurt themselves.

In other words - On-ice helpers should skate as proficiently as the age group they are helping

[Blue&Gold]

OK, I'll jump in, but only on the shallow end.

The best thing that associations could do is not try to reinvent the process every year or two. How many times do you see someone all gung-ho to take over the reigns because they felt some hurt from the past and want to make things "better" only to do the same mistakes that were down one or two groups back?

Have a process, and just tweek things as needed from year-to-year. If done right, you don't even have to have the same folks running it every year if you just rotate a few at a time, and KEEP A BOOK of process' so anyone can run the try-outs.

Over the past 16 years, I've done a lot of different things in the association. During tryouts I've been an on-ice helper, evaluator, coach, try-out co-chair, more evaluations, and more coaching. The process has changed so many times that from three years back, and back, and back they never resemble the other models.

But what the heck, just try to be honest and do the best you can. It won't change any of the players high school, college or professional careers.

[DuckDuckQuackQuack]

This may seem obvious, but for parents who are going thru the try-out process for the first time (or slow ones like me, who forget how it works year after year)...associations should post HOW TRYOUTS WORK.

Yes, they tell you where to go and at what time. But beyond that, it's a giant mystery.

Grading...what is it and who is doing the grading?

Once the kid is graded, what happens? Do we wait for a phone call, carrier pigeon, pony express?

What is a draft and what happens during the draft (well, what's SUPPOSED to happen, not what really goes on )

And once your kid is put in a group, should you wait for more phone calls? If you don't get a phone call, what does that mean?

I can't figure out why the association just doesn't post something that says...here's what happens at tryouts, here's our notification process and here's who you should call if you still don't get it.

I'm not quite sure why the whole thing needs to be shrouded in secrecy. It's not the Vatican...it's association hockey!

I think the answer to that is less mysterious than people would think. It's because all of that has to be done by volunteers. It's tough enough getting enough people in to hand out the pennies and run the gates (people who don't have kids at that level ). So, all of that is more work on volunteers who are already putting in 30 hour weeks. Yes, it seems simple to lay those guidelines out, but it isn't. The same goes for phone calls, maybe someone commits to calling 45 squirts and than gets home and finds kids throwing up and wife throwing things because she hasn't seen him in a week. It's 9pm and guess what no one wants a call at 10:30 at night, because, of course, each call requires answering questions not just giving information.

I was painting in our arena this weekend with a new volunteer and she kept asking why "they" didn't provide a drop cloth, did "they" have shoe covers, why didn't "they" have a bucket of soapy water available. Guess what, she is "they" and doesn't even get it. We all are. My biggest suggestion would be not to expect tryouts to be evil and manipulative but to look at them as what you can do to lighten the burden of the overburdened volunteers.

What? it's a tough week getting your kids there and mentally ready, etc, etc, and still get them to football or volleyball or whatever sport is still in season.....well, every one of those volunteers is doing that for their families and still finding the time to volunteer. Do people do it in their own self interest? Not for long, it's a lot of work.

Yes, "they" are volunteers....but when you decide to run for a board position, you also take on the responsibility of fulfilling your obligations. If you can't, than don't run..it's as simple as that. Nobody is forcing you to volunteer (and they shouldn't), but if you choose to do so, than you need to accept the responsibility that goes along with it. Nobody is denying that it can be hard work (as I know first-hand).

The previous poster is right. The tryout process should be posted on the associations website for all to see, and many associations do just that. The person responsible for running the tryouts and working with the coaches to finalize the teams should have a good plan to make it happen as smoothly and quickly as possible. Our association tells all the players and parents that they should be expecting a phone call on a specific date.

If it takes too long for someone to make phone calls, split the responsibility of making the calls with someone else or send out a group email. But you need to let everyone know what the results are on the same night.

Muckandgrind- Well said. I agree! This is the point I'm trying to make. There are so many people that volunteer for the wrong reasons. I appreciate people that want to volunteer but to do so they need to accept the responsibility that goes along with the position.
I fear that many people volunteer for status reasons and to get their kids -perks in hockey. Most have no idea how much work it actually takes.

One thing I've been trying to get my association to do is use the internet to communicate when, where, why, who ect...... If you make any changes to the program explain why the decision was made and how it will benefit the families associated within your program.

For instance: This year our association changed the squirt program. They went from three squirt "B" teams to two squirt "B" teams and added another squirt "C" teams without explaining to the parents the logical sense of doing so. Why not let people know why the change?

[jancze5]

WHo is really upset after tryouts? Let's capture that audience. We are talking about the parents of the 4 or 5 players (21-25 if you're Edina) who were on the bubble for A and instead are B-1. For the most part, I'd say 90% of players and parents know exactly where they stand if they have any sense of reality. It's that small percentage who are upset and feel they got jobbed.

The process can't change, there is no perfect system. If there was, USA Hockey or Minnesota Hockey would publish a referendum telling us "YOU WILL DO A, B, C and select by criteria A, B, C.

Different programs or coaches look for different stuff. You may have a head coach for A that wants big players because he's going to pound teams. Others may not take any big kids because he wants small fast players for todays game. You just never truly know why someone is picked over another.

If you don't like the system, AAA tryouts are "next" week. Go to those.

[DMom]

I think the answer to that is less mysterious than people would think. It's because all of that has to be done by volunteers. It's tough enough getting enough people in to hand out the pennies and run the gates (people who don't have kids at that level ). So, all of that is more work on volunteers who are already putting in 30 hour weeks. Yes, it seems simple to lay those guidelines out, but it isn't. The same goes for phone calls, maybe someone commits to calling 45 squirts and than gets home and finds kids throwing up and wife throwing things because she hasn't seen him in a week. It's 9pm and guess what no one wants a call at 10:30 at night, because, of course, each call requires answering questions not just giving information.

I was painting in our arena this weekend with a new volunteer and she kept asking why "they" didn't provide a drop cloth, did "they" have shoe covers, why didn't "they" have a bucket of soapy water available. Guess what, she is "they" and doesn't even get it. We all are. My biggest suggestion would be not to expect tryouts to be evil and manipulative but to look at them as what you can do to lighten the burden of the overburdened volunteers.

What? it's a tough week getting your kids there and mentally ready, etc, etc, and still get them to football or volleyball or whatever sport is still in season.....well, every one of those volunteers is doing that for their families and still finding the time to volunteer. Do people do it in their own self interest? Not for long, it's a lot of work.

Yes, "they" are volunteers....but when you decide to run for a board position, you also take on the responsibility of fulfilling your obligations. If you can't, than don't run..it's as simple as that. Nobody is forcing you to volunteer (and they shouldn't), but if you choose to do so, than you need to accept the responsibility that goes along with it. Nobody is denying that it can be hard work (as I know first-hand).

The previous poster is right. The tryout process should be posted on the associations website for all to see, and many associations do just that. The person responsible for running the tryouts and working with the coaches to finalize the teams should have a good plan to make it happen as smoothly and quickly as possible. Our association tells all the players and parents that they should be expecting a phone call on a specific date.

If it takes too long for someone to make phone calls, split the responsibility of making the calls with someone else or send out a group email. But you need to let everyone know what the results are on the same night.

Muckandgrind- Well said. I agree! This is the point I'm trying to make. There are so many people that volunteer for the wrong reasons. I appreciate people that want to volunteer but to do so they need to accept the responsibility that goes along with the position.
I fear that many people volunteer for status reasons and to get their kids -perks in hockey. Most have no idea how much work it actually takes.

One thing I've been trying to get my association to do is use the internet to communicate when, where, why, who ect...... If you make any changes to the program explain why the decision was made and how it will benefit the families associated within your program.

For instance: This year our association changed the squirt program. They went from three squirt "B" teams to two squirt "B" teams and added another squirt "C" teams without explaining to the parents the logical sense of doing so. Why not let people know why the change?

How many reasons can there possibly be? Obviously, they were not competitive with three squirt B teams. There was probably a lot of feedback from parents and so 7 people sat down and made a 4 minute decision to cut it back to 2. The more you talk about something like that the more the kids and their abilities are drawn into the conversation. You have a board, trust them to make the decision and if you don't like it become a board member and do some of the work yourself. (well, not you Quackers) People are overthinking the process and it's easy to say volunteers should be prepared to put in more time. We don't actually have a ton of competition for board positions in youth hockey. How many of your board members ran unopposed? or were appointed because someone talked them into it over a beer?

[DMom]

I do know we had a volunteer once who took A LOT of flack. He did three or four years on the board and when he quit it was under a cloud with people pointing fingers (pretty usual stuff). Yet, he is the most faithful of volunteers. His son never needed his "influence" on the board. He was always good enough to make his A teams, and yet that didn't stop the complainers from thinking there was undue influence. Now that that is all water under the bridge, he is still the first person to show up for any volunteer opportunity. Watching him, I have had a number of people say to me, 'you know, maybe we were wrong" and they are learning that the loudest people are not always right. Obviously he is volunteering because he wants to and he is doing it for the kids because his son can't benefit from it anymore.

Than, there is our youth president. He has put in hundreds of hours to get an arena built in our community. He puts in hundreds more fundraising AND presiding over tryouts. His youngest child is a junior in high school. Yet, there will still be people who will question his dedication, when we should probably be erecting a statue in his honor (only he would have to raise the funds for it).

Again, I would bet in a few weeks I will be as mad as anyone else about the results of tryouts, but that won't stop me from trying to make it better and supporting other people who are also trying to make youth athletics better. The only reason I am even responding to any of this is because we are burning through volunteers at an alarming rate and that's why pay to play hockey is such an attractive alternative.

Because the whole mindset that you should benefit from volunteering makes the B and C parents quit before they even get started. Why should they volunteer if it isn't benefiting their own kid? If they put in a hundred hours should their kid make the A team? No, if you are doing it for the wrong reasons, don't bother doing it at all.

[tomASS]

I do know we had a volunteer once who took A LOT of flack. He did three or four years on the board and when he quit it was under a cloud with people pointing fingers (pretty usual stuff). Yet, he is the most faithful of volunteers. His son never needed his "influence" on the board. He was always good enough to make his A teams, and yet that didn't stop the complainers from thinking there was undue influence. Now that that is all water under the bridge, he is still the first person to show up for any volunteer opportunity. Watching him, I have had a number of people say to me, 'you know, maybe we were wrong" and they are learning that the loudest people are not always right. Obviously he is volunteering because he wants to and he is doing it for the kids because his son can't benefit from it anymore.

Than, there is our youth president. He has put in hundreds of hours to get an arena built in our community. He puts in hundreds more fundraising AND presiding over tryouts. His youngest child is a junior in high school. Yet, there will still be people who will question his dedication, when we should probably be erecting a statue in his honor (only he would have to raise the funds for it).

Again, I would bet in a few weeks I will be as mad as anyone else about the results of tryouts, but that won't stop me from trying to make it better and supporting other people who are also trying to make youth athletics better. The only reason I am even responding to any of this is because we are burning through volunteers at an alarming rate and that's why pay to play hockey is such an attractive alternative.

Because the whole mindset that you should benefit from volunteering makes the B and C parents quit before they even get started. Why should they volunteer if it isn't benefiting their own kid? If they put in a hundred hours should their kid make the A team? No, if you are doing it for the wrong reasons, don't bother doing it at all.

Dmom- your last two posts absolutely brilliant! Unlike your political posts in the Cafe

They were written from the heart of a true volunteer and state the very issues associations face daily, monthly and year to year. It's just refreshing to hear the passion of someone just trying to make hockey better in their community for the sake of hockey. Everyone should skate a lap in your blades.

Your post inspires unlike posts from others that complain about their communities programs that they hardly have even been a part of.

Thanks Dmom!

[Daulton911]

I have to make a comment to this Post. I ussually do not post on here because I feel this is alot of over zealious parents venting. But fun reading . I have been involved with youth hockey for over 30 years, I am one who has finnaly stepped back and is taking a back seat on the volunteer side of things. I have done it all, coached, ref'd, board member, etc. The real problem out there is most assocations do nothing to educate there coaches. our program has very experienced past coaches that are never asked to "Teach" other coaches. Or if and when they do these sessions, most the coaches selected are never attending. Assocaitions need to first come up with a philosphy as to how they expect there teams to operate. Then they need to make sure the coaches Know it, and provide training sessions to promote it. Our program changes every year, and every year its a different philosphy. we are one of the many associations that never have a coach actually stick around for more then 2 years. ussually there is a couple loud mouths who want the particular coach removed and the board doesent know what to do since they have no idea what type of coach they want teaching their kids anyway. we have a rule book that is not followed by caoches and yet the board does nothing about it. example - equal ice time rule. coach - follow it, if not the philosphy of the program 'Change the Rule".

OK - I am now venting, sorry. there are so many resources out there, look into them, use them, make this game what it once was. something all kids, parents, etc can be freinds at. Not enemy's as so many associations seem to create. I know of a group of ex-coaches who put togather a company that made them selves available to consult other coaches, associations, there goal is to bring back the integrity to youth associations, pick the right coaches, train the right things, learn the game. teach the game do not base Teaching on "reactons" which is what so many coaches do. coaches should not plan there ice time day by day. anyway - sorry - enough I'll shut up. I am very passionate aboout this game and hate seeing others wreck it... smile...

[muckandgrind]

WHo is really upset after tryouts? Let's capture that audience. We are talking about the parents of the 4 or 5 players (21-25 if you're Edina) who were on the bubble for A and instead are B-1. For the most part, I'd say 90% of players and parents know exactly where they stand if they have any sense of reality. It's that small percentage who are upset and feel they got jobbed.

The process can't change, there is no perfect system. If there was, USA Hockey or Minnesota Hockey would publish a referendum telling us "YOU WILL DO A, B, C and select by criteria A, B, C.

Different programs or coaches look for different stuff. You may have a head coach for A that wants big players because he's going to pound teams. Others may not take any big kids because he wants small fast players for todays game. You just never truly know why someone is picked over another.

If you don't like the system, AAA tryouts are "next" week. Go to those.

Just an idea, but hear me out. I know that some baseball programs are using the same scoring criteria for their players. They don't score players against each other with their association, but just give each player in individual score.

All programs use these scores as a baseline. And when you are finished, you look at your scores and see how many TRUE "A" players you have, same with "B" players, etc. Back to the baseball example, any player with a score over 200 would be considered a "AAA" player. If you don't have at least 7-8 players scoring over 200, than you probably shouldn't run a "AAA" team. For hockey, you decide (based on those scores) what teams you want to run during the winter.

Obviously, Minnesota Hockey would have to get involved and come up with a common scoring system that all associations would use.

[MNhockey2012]

First find some non-parent evaluators that have non-bias opinions on the kids to get a fair evaluation process. Secondly don't have majority of tryouts as cone skating. You could give a kid a great grade on cone skating and when it gets to game play they might be left clueless due to the lack of hockey sense or the phisical aspect of the game. Lastly let the kids play without the parents telling them what to do. When I say this I mean that you shouldn't alow parents to watch their kids and give them hand signals and yelling at their kids to skate harder or something along those lines. A couple of reasons are that the kids should want to play the game because they want to not because the parents do. A nother reason is this may be distracting to the other kids on the ice and possibly the evaluators. If you can do this I think you will have a good tryout process.