Eden Prairie Cuts Seniors

bardown444 · Post by **bardown444** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:47 pm

I dont want to sound like an upset parent or player cause this is not the case. But my question is why? If you live in eden prairie or know people who do it is no secret that the Boys High School Hockey Coach is not highly respected. This could be due to his "senior cuts" year after year the JV team is only a holding tank not to mention this team only looses one or two games a year. Making you believe he is possibly "rebuilding the team".This year ten seniors were cut and out of those ten six had previously played varsity the other four JV (understanding one of the six had violations and choose his fate). Leaving these kids to play Junior Gold A this team also has a winning record and makes it to state just about every year. Eden Prairie Varsity on the other hand usually has a winning record of .600 and rarely makes it to state. Is it time for a new coach? or Is there a method to this?

ALL-STAR ROOKIE · Post by **ALL-STAR ROOKIE** » Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:01 pm

I think alot of teams of bigger schools do this , maybe not this many seniors. I think it's normal to cut some seniors from bigger schools that have 11th graders that can play better.

Yes it's a bummer for the kids that give there heart and soul to the team and then get cut there senior year.

I was just looking at a D-3 college that cut a senior or two.

oldbarn7 · Post by **oldbarn7** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:21 am

You need to look at this from the coaches perspective.

Yes we know the coach has had some "issues" with parents for cutting seniors or whatever the case may be. He has been there for a number of years and has had a few state tournament appearances by taking young groups and building them up to become title contenders.
-The class headed by Smaagard (sp?) and Erickson was brought up that way where they cut seniors to make room for the more talented younger crowd. Unfortunately Smaagard torn up his knee in football his senior year and never touched the ice or who knows what could have happened
-The class headed by Hawkins, Watters, and a young Chad Rau (10th grade) was treated the same way.
-Is this the next wave with the brothers Rau now in the high school ranks? Who knows we're not the coach but we can assume....

Also. How else can these public schools compete with the private schools who may just happen to have a spot for a talented, young sophomore to play every varsity game and get looks from every D-I school. In the past, EP, and most other public metro teams, have lost a hand full of players to other schools. This is away that the coach and team can commit to the younger players and have them WANT to stick around.

As terrible as it is to cut those 10 seniors, look at the talent in the incoming class. I'm sorry, but there is not choice there for the coach to make. It's a program that has run and will continue to for many years. There are many players that have played and will play for EP. Yes, seniors are important and they have worked to play varsity hockey, but there is a time when it is a judgment between talent, youth, youth championships, and future years vs. a small amount of experience, loyalty, and making mediocrity a tradition.

It's about the kids I know. That is why EP has Jr. Gold teams and other hockey outlets. For the kids, that for whatever reason, that choose to not play for the varsity/JV or get cut. As long as those kids get a chance to continue playing the game, it is fine with me for this situation to be handled the way it was.

Sorry

Doglover · Post by **Doglover** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 8:38 am

Completely disagree! Give me a coach that shows some loyalty to his seniors and I'll show you a coach who has the love and respect of not only his players, but his community. EP has not shown that their method works - very mediocre performance at the HS level in spite of outstanding success in youth hockey. The kids are obviously leaving because of this coach. I don't know him personally so my comments are not personal. This is about kids in a public High School. Seniors offer leadership, strength, and maturity to a Varsity team. I'll take a mature, strong, loyal senior over a cocky, mediocre sophomore any day.

bardown444 · Post by **bardown444** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:01 am

i'm going to have to agree with doglover. seniors are what make teams specially winning teams. why cut mature talented seniors some of who have played varsity for the last two years and replace them with sophmores who have not even had a taste of the JV level of play. Not to mention the size of these sophmores more then three or four wiegh under 125. Im not trying to say small players are unssucesful cause there are exceptions like rau and vranek but these kids could get seriously injured.......... go to the edina ep game.

gerryodrowski · Post by **gerryodrowski** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:30 am

Doglover wrote:Completely disagree! Give me a coach that shows some loyalty to his seniors and I'll show you a coach who has the love and respect of not only his players, but his community. EP has not shown that their method works - very mediocre performance at the HS level in spite of outstanding success in youth hockey. The kids are obviously leaving because of this coach. I don't know him personally so my comments are not personal. This is about kids in a public High School. Seniors offer leadership, strength, and maturity to a Varsity team. I'll take a mature, strong, loyal senior over a cocky, mediocre sophomore any day.

You are taking some big leaps here Doglover. Loyalty is a two way street. Dig a little deeper and you may discover that some of the seniors that got walked were not the mature, loyal leaders that you assume. And what's up with the "cocky, mediocre sophomore" comment? Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

O-townClown · Post by **O-townClown** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:42 am

A big reason coaches cut seniors is that they are thinking three months ahead and don't want to be blamed for not playing them.

bubblehockey27 · Post by **bubblehockey27** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:53 am

It basically comes down to if the senior is equal to, or worse than the younger players coming up. Why have a senior on the team when a sophomore or junior could easily fill his shoes? Its not any fun for the seniors, but the bottom line is that it's part of the game.

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:39 pm

With back to back state tiltles the fact is they are a very talented bunch. Not enough jerseys to go around. Maybe if they would of built another school instead of a campus we wouldn't be having this discussion. This same problem went on at jefferson and Edina years ago..although they're enrollment was far less.

Charliedog · Post by **Charliedog** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:43 pm

It seems like everything in hockey (and life) these days is geared toward what "might" happen in the future. I am not so sure this is the correct way to live our lives."

We start them as mites and skate them 24/7 because they "might" make the varsity team in the future.

We skip taking family vacations because they interfere with summer hockey camps and if our kids don't do the camps they "might not make varsity.

Don't play any other sport from age 5 on because the varsity coach "might" think you are not serious about hockey.

Varsity coaches cut some seniors and good leaders because they "might" get in the way of developing for the FUTURE.

Just something to think about!

Doglover · Post by **Doglover** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:08 pm

Any one have the roster for EP Varsity & JV?

Good point about the coaches thinking 3 months ahead Clown. I think there is validity in that statement - hadn't considered that. If they cut too many Seniors though I think it affects the "spirit" in the school not to mention the long term affect on those kids who will always carry it with them. Ask some of the hockey dads of today that got cut their Senior year! Lot more likely some of those young men may make some bad choices as a result. The impact on their lives can be serious.

Gerryodreary - sorry - obviously hit a nerve

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:10 pm

Amen charliedog, two schools of thought,

A) you give more kids a shot at the experience of playing highschool hockey. ....and suffer the rath of angry parents or;

B) you build for the future, step on a few toes, and make a run at the big prize.

Don't know which is right or wrong, thats for each coach to decide.

hockeyboys · Post by **hockeyboys** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:21 pm

Big schools like EP are tough on kids in these situations. The coach is doing what he thinks is best - and there are always going to be those that disagree.

The problem with big schools goes deeper than just hockey teams. Statistics prove that kids that stay in school activities are less likely to get into trouble in a number of ways - drinking, drugs, teen pregnancies - and are far more likely to not drop out of school. Large schools like EP minimize chances for teens to be involved with their school.

I know there are benefits to big schools as well - but to the individual kids - not so much. If it is about school championships - than EP is the place to be. If it is about the individuals the schools are responisble for - there are a lot of questions here.

Goldy Gopher · Post by **Goldy Gopher** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:35 pm

Doglover wrote:Completely disagree! Give me a coach that shows some loyalty to his seniors and I'll show you a coach who has the love and respect of not only his players, but his community. EP has not shown that their method works - very mediocre performance at the HS level in spite of outstanding success in youth hockey. The kids are obviously leaving because of this coach. I don't know him personally so my comments are not personal. This is about kids in a public High School. Seniors offer leadership, strength, and maturity to a Varsity team. I'll take a mature, strong, loyal senior over a cocky, mediocre sophomore any day.

I really hope you know a lot of the people involved in this otherwise you're making some pretty bold claims.

Blue&Gold · Post by **Blue&Gold** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:01 pm

This is an interesting thread. Why? Because we have a new perspective on "loyalty". Some think cutting players (seniors) is OK. I would assume those same folks are OK with a player leaving a program to play in Ann Arbor or the USHL. These same folks should be OK with some players transferring to BMS or Blake since loyalty isn't important. Of course, the folks who support kids leaving early shouldn't be concerned with seniors being released from a team either.

See, the high school and loyalty discussion should not really have any bearing on the talent of the kid. It's not that the really talented players should stay with a team out of loyalty to their friends and yet allow their buddies to be cut from the team because there is no loyalty to someone who didn't develop quite as well. If a player transfers or leaves for greener pastures, that opens up a slot for someone who isn't quite there, but has stayed on for a while.

It's a tough call. However, it really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone if a senior is cut. For the most part, they shouldn't have played as a junior. If they did play quite a bit as a junior, then they should be there as a senior. My simple opinion only..

bigcarl · Post by **bigcarl** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:08 pm

its called making the better decisions for the team.. im guessing the one who made this topic is one of those players that got cut and has nothing to do but cry about it. my guess is you prolly sucked. live with it.

bardown444 · Post by **bardown444** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:17 pm

try reading bigcarl thats not the case. After talking to more people in the system it seems that the issue is not cutting seniors it is the coach who appearntly has no clue what he is doing because the seniors he cut are more then better then the sophmores he took and is obviouse to anyone who plays hockey. "Lee Smith would do Eden Praire a huge favor by resigning" litterally qouted from niehter a parent or a player affected by the cuts. Anyone have thoughts or know Lees real background? I've also been told Lee has made and taken deals from parents in the past.

Blue&Gold · Post by **Blue&Gold** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:25 pm

bardown444 wrote: I've also been told Lee has made and taken deals from parents in the past.

Bardown, that's right on the edge of accusing someone of doing some bad stuff..... disgruntled people say some pretty dumb things, don't be one of them.

bardown444 · Post by **bardown444** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:29 pm

blue&gold i am not disgruntled but i believe your right putting that out there was a bit far considering i do not know if that is completely true

bardown444 · Post by **bardown444** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:35 pm

http://www.edenprairienews.com/node/3474 [/url] another's thoughts from previous years.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:42 pm

Everyone responding has been missing out on the main point of all this, which is that it's a pattern. People are simply responding to it happening this year. Yes, one year doesn't make it an issue. Although if it is the pattern it is claimed to be, it is an issue.

Rebuilding is a true thing. You see it in high schools, colleges, and even pro teams in every sport. But in rebuilding the key part of the word is "building", meaning you are building toward something. You can't simply cut seniors EVERY year in an attempt to rebuild every year. You do it once, maybe twice, to have a foundation, then in a year, two, maybe three you have a solid squad.

It is one thing to put someone on the JV squad as a junior basically telling them they don't have a future as a varsity player. That is building for the future. Not playing players one year and cutting ten the next year.

Obviously know nothing of the situation, but that is my take based on the original post.

gerryodrowski · Post by **gerryodrowski** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:53 pm

Doglover wrote:Any one have the roster for EP Varsity & JV?

Good point about the coaches thinking 3 months ahead Clown. I think there is validity in that statement - hadn't considered that. If they cut too many Seniors though I think it affects the "spirit" in the school not to mention the long term affect on those kids who will always carry it with them. Ask some of the hockey dads of today that got cut their Senior year! Lot more likely some of those young men may make some bad choices as a result. The impact on their lives can be serious.

Gerryodreary - sorry - obviously hit a nerve

Oh my God! Now you have struck a nerve. Quickly click on the "edit" button and erase the last half of this post before someone comes to take you away!

gerryodrowski · Post by **gerryodrowski** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:02 pm

bardown444 wrote:blue&gold i am not disgruntled but i believe your right putting that out there was a bit far considering i do not know if that is completely true

???????

Garth · Post by **Garth** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:07 pm

This may have been said above, but maybe not exactly like this. Here is the deal I believe. The sophomore class at EP is extremely talented. This is the class that won back to back Bantam State championships.

This whole class is too talented to believe they will all stay at EP for their Sr. year. Some will likely go to USHL/Shattuck/Nat'l Dev team/elsewhere?

The EP youth hockey association overall is not getting any stronger compared to Wayzata, Edina and some others.

Therefore, putting these two assumptions together, the best foreseeable chance EP has of winning a State High School Championship is with this group of Sophomores and they would likley have to win it in 2010 (next year) as Juniors. Therefore, Smith had to bring on these players as Sophomores to develop so they can take a realistic run at the State Championship next year.

HShockeywatcher · Post by **HShockeywatcher** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:17 pm

As an isolated incident, I completely agree with Garth. The pattern, though, would be hard to not take quarrel with.

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Eden Prairie Cuts Seniors

Eden Prairie Cuts Seniors

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