Best defense in the state

[dueling21]

I just posted a story on the top defensive units in the state...

http://www.mnsportspreview.com/TimKoleh ... efense.htm

[my2cents]

Looking at only the top 4 D from each team, I'd say:

1) DE
2) HM
3) Jeff
4) Blaine
5) Mtka
6) Centennial
7) Edina
8) EP
9) MG
10) Cathedral

[HShockeywatcher]

Two years ago when the season was starting there was talk about Duluth Central's goalie being one of the top goalie's in the state. We all know how good Duluth Central's team has been but it is still possible for the goalie to have talent.

In the same light it's very easy to simply say a top team has a top defense because they're winning. With the exception of Cathedral this list is basically the team top 10. How do scouts tell the potential of a good player who is either on a bad team or a team who doesn't play the best competition?

[komada77]

Hands down this one goes to East. Their penalty kill is maybe the best I've ever seen and Derek Forbort is something special on the blue line. Matt Cooper is also an excellent goalie.

[bueller]

have seen duluth east play and probably one of the most solid d lines in awhile. Forbort is as solid as they come in more areas than one

[dueling21]

While there are definitely top defensemen on bad teams, I was looking at the defensive corps as a unit, not individual defensemen. The list would definitely change if I were looking at top individuals. Needless to say, it's not too surprising that the best teams have the best defensive corps...after all, if you don't give up any goals, it's pretty easy to win games (see East, Duluth).

[hshockey17]

First, Nice Article, nice to see coverage like this.


I definitely agree with Duluth East being number one. They are held together by stud Derek Forbort. He has both the size and excellent hands to become a very good college player and possibly beyond. I believe his defensive partner is Maclean, who is very solid on the point. He may not get many points, but one of the better defenseman out there. Arbour is another big kid who will outmuscle anybody and keep the puck. Williams is very good as well. Rounded out with Holm and Amato, this whole defensive corp seems to be one of the top in the state. Add in goaltender Matt Cooper and the whole team defense becomes even scarier.

[EHSHack]

First, Nice Article, nice to see coverage like this.


I definitely agree with Duluth East being number one. They are held together by stud Derek Forbort. He has both the size and excellent hands to become a very good college player and possibly beyond. I believe his defensive partner is Maclean, who is very solid on the point. He may not get many points, but one of the better defenseman out there. Arbour is another big kid who will outmuscle anybody and keep the puck. Williams is very good as well. Rounded out with Holm and Amato, this whole defensive corp seems to be one of the top in the state. Add in goaltender Matt Cooper and the whole team defense becomes even scarier.

Although I agree Forbort is a stud the defense is really held together by Williams and Arbour. Arbour is a 4 year Varsity player and Williams is one of the better defensemen out there. Arbour and Williams also have very nice shots and play very well together. Forbort and McLean are a very strong 2nd defensive unit and Forbort can only go up from here. He just needs to get a little meaner.

[hockey59]

First, Nice Article, nice to see coverage like this.


I definitely agree with Duluth East being number one. They are held together by stud Derek Forbort. He has both the size and excellent hands to become a very good college player and possibly beyond. I believe his defensive partner is Maclean, who is very solid on the point. He may not get many points, but one of the better defenseman out there. Arbour is another big kid who will outmuscle anybody and keep the puck. Williams is very good as well. Rounded out with Holm and Amato, this whole defensive corp seems to be one of the top in the state. Add in goaltender Matt Cooper and the whole team defense becomes even scarier.

Although I agree Forbort is a stud the defense is really held together by Williams and Arbour. Arbour is a 4 year Varsity player and Williams is one of the better defensemen out there. Arbour and Williams also have very nice shots and play very well together. Forbort and McLean are a very strong 2nd defensive unit and Forbort can only go up from here. He just needs to get a little meaner.

I'll preface this by saying that I've only watched DE play one game this year, (but I've watched these players quite a bit over the last couple years) and to me, Forbort and McLain are clearly the #1 defense pair for DE. I don't think who starts the game necessarily has much to do with which pairing is considered #1.

All 4 are excellent players:Forbort has the longest and best poke-check in the State and enormous upside (as the Sioux and most other D1 schools quickly recognized last year) as an all-around hockey player....while McLain also has a long body and is the best tape-to-tape passer on the team from what I saw...Arbour is a hulk physically and has nice offensive skills...and Williams is quick and skilled and scrappy, especially for his size.

[Penalty Shot]

All 4 East defenseman are very good. They all bring differnt aspects to the table. Arbour may be the most polished. This will be his 4th year of varsity. I cant think of anyone else who has better physical skills he is very strong, skates very well, and can shoot the puck extremely hard, Forbort is just coming in to his own, he is showing flashes of becoming a superstar and he will be. McLean sees the ice very well and moves the puck extremely well, Williams has been hampered by an injured wrist but might be the best hitter on the team. He has the ability to stand a guy up at the blue line extremely well. Any one of them is extremely difficult to beat 1-1 and if there forwards cover for their aggressiveness they add quality offense to a tremendous group of forwards. In addition Holm and Amato are contrributing and East has 3 JV D Welinsky, Bergerson, and Troy Olson who would be playing for most teams in the State.

As a group I like Jeffersons and Centennials D- corps as well. Jeffersons play similar to Easts and Centennials is a more of a stay at home group.

[The New One]

I spoke to a couple of non MN NHL scouts who realy like Forbort and they liked watching Forbort and McLean play together because they trust each other and know each other so well. They also commented on what a huge group of D Forbort 6'4", Arbour and McLean both over 6'2".

[nikebauer_07]

East's defense is overrated. They are just lucky they have a top notch goaltender that can back up their mistakes. Forbort should be a forward because he spends 90% of his ice time carrying the puck up the ice. They are good, but I don't know about best in the state.

[EHSHack]

East's defense is overrated. They are just lucky they have a top notch goaltender that can back up their mistakes. Forbort should be a forward because he spends 90% of his ice time carrying the puck up the ice. They are good, but I don't know about best in the state.

East has 100% penalty kill. You cant honestly tell me that all on the goaltender.
Could you pleae be more specific about these mistakes?

[nikebauer_07]

East's defense is overrated. They are just lucky they have a top notch goaltender that can back up their mistakes. Forbort should be a forward because he spends 90% of his ice time carrying the puck up the ice. They are good, but I don't know about best in the state.

East has 100% penalty kill. You cant honestly tell me that all on the goaltender.
Could you pleae be more specific about these mistakes?

I said they are good, not great. Their aggressive play gets them caught off guard numerous times throughout the game. They give up some odd man rushes throughout the game because of turnovers. They take some stupid, undisciplined penalties. Sooner or later that will come back to haunt them, they won't be killing 100% of their penalties when teams figure out their weakness. Again, good, but in my opinion, not the best.

[hshckfan08]

East's defense is overrated. They are just lucky they have a top notch goaltender that can back up their mistakes. Forbort should be a forward because he spends 90% of his ice time carrying the puck up the ice. They are good, but I don't know about best in the state.

East has 100% penalty kill. You cant honestly tell me that all on the goaltender.
Could you pleae be more specific about these mistakes?

I said they are good, not great. Their aggressive play gets them caught off guard numerous times throughout the game. They give up some odd man rushes throughout the game because of turnovers. They take some stupid, undisciplined penalties. Sooner or later that will come back to haunt them, they won't be killing 100% of their penalties when teams figure out their weakness. Again, good, but in my opinion, not the best.

Who do you think is better than them? There are a few teams that are close in my opinion, like Hill-Murray, Centennial, and an underrated St. Cloud Cathedral defense, but simply, i dont think they have the depth that East does. Aggressiveness is not an attribute which determines skill or quality. That is just how the particular player/unit in this case plays. They may give up a breakaway once in a while, but how many goals have they put up on the board by jumping a pass or chipping the puck back in the zone instead of playing conservative. Also, East's offense is not the most potent you will see this year, so Randolph may be asking them to play more aggressively in order to put some points up on the board. And nikebauer, i'm pretty sure a ton of coaches/teams would love to have a defender like Forbert who can carry the puck up instead of having to give it up every time they break out of the dzone. It gives the other team one more thing to worry about.

[HShockeywatcher]

The difficulty I have saying that East has the top defense, or is even a top team, is who they play. It is not an easy schedule, but it is certainly not a difficult one. Coming in at last in that article was Northern Lakes. You look at their schedule and they have a good shot at going undefeated. They have allowed 7 goals this season, with 4 coming in one game. If you don't look at who a team plays, you are missing a huge part of the story. East plays a pretty soft schedule; how they do against Moorhead, Blaine and the Gold Cup opponents will say a lot.

[nikebauer_07]

East has 100% penalty kill. You cant honestly tell me that all on the goaltender.
Could you pleae be more specific about these mistakes?

I said they are good, not great. Their aggressive play gets them caught off guard numerous times throughout the game. They give up some odd man rushes throughout the game because of turnovers. They take some stupid, undisciplined penalties. Sooner or later that will come back to haunt them, they won't be killing 100% of their penalties when teams figure out their weakness. Again, good, but in my opinion, not the best.

Who do you think is better than them? There are a few teams that are close in my opinion, like Hill-Murray, Centennial, and an underrated St. Cloud Cathedral defense, but simply, i dont think they have the depth that East does. Aggressiveness is not an attribute which determines skill or quality. That is just how the particular player/unit in this case plays. They may give up a breakaway once in a while, but how many goals have they put up on the board by jumping a pass or chipping the puck back in the zone instead of playing conservative. Also, East's offense is not the most potent you will see this year, so Randolph may be asking them to play more aggressively in order to put some points up on the board. And nikebauer, i'm pretty sure a ton of coaches/teams would love to have a defender like Forbert who can carry the puck up instead of having to give it up every time they break out of the dzone. It gives the other team one more thing to worry about.

Just my opinion after watching them play. I had read so much about them I was expecting just phenominal play and I don't believe they lived up to the hype. Apparently my opinion has no right being on here though.

[east hockey]

The difficulty I have saying that East has the top defense, or is even a top team, is who they play. It is not an easy schedule, but it is certainly not a difficult one. Coming in at last in that article was Northern Lakes. You look at their schedule and they have a good shot at going undefeated. They have allowed 7 goals this season, with 4 coming in one game. If you don't look at who a team plays, you are missing a huge part of the story. East plays a pretty soft schedule; how they do against Moorhead, Blaine and the Gold Cup opponents will say a lot.

What would you define as a "difficult schedule"? The average PS2 of East's opponents so far this season shows them having the 18th toughest schedule in the state. Take out Central (whose rating really pulls down East's SOS, and they're third) It's not the toughest, but it sure meets my criteria for difficult.

Lee

[EHSHack]

The difficulty I have saying that East has the top defense, or is even a top team, is who they play. It is not an easy schedule, but it is certainly not a difficult one. Coming in at last in that article was Northern Lakes. You look at their schedule and they have a good shot at going undefeated. They have allowed 7 goals this season, with 4 coming in one game. If you don't look at who a team plays, you are missing a huge part of the story. East plays a pretty soft schedule; how they do against Moorhead, Blaine and the Gold Cup opponents will say a lot.

Incorrect. East plays one of the tougher schedules in the state. They play 10 games against top 15 opponents, assuming all Schwans Cup games will be Top 15 teams.
5 of those games are on the road.
I'm not sure what you mean by Northern Lakes, because East isnt in a conference.
They play 4 teams who are in the Gold Cup, 3 in Silver, and 1 in Bronze.
By no means a weak schedule.

Also Max Tardy was the leading scorer in the Elite League so they have some offensive firepower. He hasnt impressed me so far though.

NikeBauer, i respect your opinion man. This is just mine. No hard feelings.

[HoundHockeyForever]

I'd have to say that East almost always has a tough schedule, usually in the top ten toughest in the state. Like Lee pointed out, Central pulls them down to 18th.. when they would be 3rd. Also, since they didn't do so well in the Schwan's Cup last year they got moved down, otherwise they would be playing much tougher teams.

Concerning the best defense in the state, I want to say East simply because of how well I saw them play on Thursday. Then again, I haven't seen any of the other teams play, so I can't compare them to East's D. On the other hand, East has 4 solid D, with another good 3rd D line. Forbort is on his way to be a superstar, and Arbour has been on varsity for 4 years. Besides these two, Mclean really impressed me compared to his last few years. On top of that, the passing cababilities of East's D is amazing. I saw some crazy passes in the game vs. CEC.
It'll be nice to see East play some tougher teams to see how they stack up, but I would have to say they are still one of the top D units in the state.

[hshckfan08]

I said they are good, not great. Their aggressive play gets them caught off guard numerous times throughout the game. They give up some odd man rushes throughout the game because of turnovers. They take some stupid, undisciplined penalties. Sooner or later that will come back to haunt them, they won't be killing 100% of their penalties when teams figure out their weakness. Again, good, but in my opinion, not the best.

Who do you think is better than them? There are a few teams that are close in my opinion, like Hill-Murray, Centennial, and an underrated St. Cloud Cathedral defense, but simply, i dont think they have the depth that East does. Aggressiveness is not an attribute which determines skill or quality. That is just how the particular player/unit in this case plays. They may give up a breakaway once in a while, but how many goals have they put up on the board by jumping a pass or chipping the puck back in the zone instead of playing conservative. Also, East's offense is not the most potent you will see this year, so Randolph may be asking them to play more aggressively in order to put some points up on the board. And nikebauer, i'm pretty sure a ton of coaches/teams would love to have a defender like Forbert who can carry the puck up instead of having to give it up every time they break out of the dzone. It gives the other team one more thing to worry about.

Just my opinion after watching them play. I had read so much about them I was expecting just phenominal play and I don't believe they lived up to the hype. Apparently my opinion has no right being on here though.

If you dont think they arent the best i could care less, i am just interested in who you think is better. And i disagree that you can base the "best" on aggressiveness. Apparently opinions contrary to yours have no right being on here though.

[HShockeywatcher]

Northern Lakes is a co-oped team up North of schools between Walker and Brainerd. Read the article that started this thread.

I'll respond to the rest later.

[nikebauer_07]

If East didn't have Cooper in nets would you be all for the aggressiveness? It is nice when you have a capable goalie behind you to play aggressive. Also, it's not like the aggressive play is putting major points on the board for the Hounds. Forbort has 3 assists on the year so far. Centennial was able to score on them and I just believe other top notch teams will, too. It will be interesting to see how this week goes for them as they take on Anoka and then travel to Moorhead.

[hshckfan08]

If East didn't have Cooper in nets would you be all for the aggressiveness? It is nice when you have a capable goalie behind you to play aggressive. Also, it's not like the aggressive play is putting major points on the board for the Hounds. Forbort has 3 assists on the year so far. Centennial was able to score on them and I just believe other top notch teams will, too. It will be interesting to see how this week goes for them as they take on Anoka and then travel to Moorhead.

Im not for or against agressiveness. I dont care what strategy Randolph chooses to use, or how the players decide they want to go about trying to win games. Im just saying that i dont think one can evaluate a team or player's skill based on being aggressive. Ovechkin could be the most conservative player in the NHL and he would still be better than a minny mite defender who is digging in the offensive corner for pucks all game, and visa versa. Maybe they are overhyped, but i believe thats because there really arent a lot of other top notch defenses this year in my opinion.

[hockey59]

If East didn't have Cooper in nets would you be all for the aggressiveness? It is nice when you have a capable goalie behind you to play aggressive. Also, it's not like the aggressive play is putting major points on the board for the Hounds. Forbort has 3 assists on the year so far. Centennial was able to score on them and I just believe other top notch teams will, too. It will be interesting to see how this week goes for them as they take on Anoka and then travel to Moorhead.

Cooper is a good goalie no doubt...(but no RS)...the strength of DE's top 4 D is in they're overall ability to break-out of the zone with crisp passes to the wings and center and ability to hold the point, defend in the neutral zone and defend in their end...and they need to be more aggressive when an opportuniity presents itself this year than in past years (like they were in the Centennial game)....because aside from Max Tardy, they are not a dominantly skilled group up front...but they play they're coaches style in terms of solid position hockey very well, get the puck in deep and are physical. especially for there size.