Biggest Rivalry in the State

[TheNightman]

With the Hill Murray vs. White Bear game just around the corner, it brings back memories of some of the great games these teams have had in the past. I would say it's the best rivalry in the metro, but what you consider the best rivalry in the state?

[King of the Pond]

I love the Centennial vs Blaine games and it has become one of the better rivalries in the state.

[O-townClown]

Seems like there was a thread on this once.

[ImissMYhockey]

Seems like there was a thread on this once.

Yea I think there was

[komada77]

Best rivalries in the state are:
#4: Blaine-Centennial
#3: Duluth East-Cloquet
#2: Hill Murray-WBL
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and #1: Roseau vs. Warroad

[karl(east)]

This thread comes up every year, but I will answer it anyways with the answer everyone expects to come out of me.

With all due respect to the many quality rivalries out there, there are 3 that are consistently mentioned as being the best: Warroad-Roseau, Hill-WBL, and East-Cloquet.

Aesthetically, Warroad-Roseau is probably the most pleasing. It features two programs with great histories that bring the entire small town out to their cozy, old arenas to play some pure northern hockey. My complaints with it are that 1) it's pretty one-sided; and 2) the two teams aren't even in the same class, which really kills a lot of the tension. Bragging rights are the only thing at stake; perhaps because of that, 3) there just doesn't seem to be enough solid hatred out there.

Hill-WBL is commonly cited as the best Metro rivalry. It's got some good storylines, with two storied traditions (one with a pretty impressive track record, the other a bit more dubious), a shared arena, and it has the public-private thing going for it. It draws huge crowds, and the teams are fortunate to be in a section in which they are the only two consistent contenders, meaning the meetings always mean something. My complaints are 1) again, it's pretty one-sided, especially lately; and 2) Hill's fan base, perhaps simply by the nature of the school, can't match up to WBL's.

That brings us to East-Cloquet. Single-team dominance is not an issue with this one; counting tonight's East win, the series is 14-13-2 in favor of East since 98-99. Despite playing in a section with some other solid programs, they've managed to meet in sections in 8 of the past ten years and have split them 4-4. Tonight's game served as evidence that no East-Cloquet game is ever dull; despite the East rout, the huge fight at the end showed the intensity level. The crowds at the DECC are comparable to those at Aldrich for WBL-Hill, and exceed them at sections. The rivalry combines the small-town obsession of Cloquet with the wealthy side of a larger city, adding another dimension...it's the best of both worlds in this regard. The fans are bitter, angry, and occasionally violent. They've also just played some ridiculously good hockey. Tonight's game was the first in years that has not been incredibly close, and we've seen plenty of overtimes and last-second finishes over the last few years. The only real knock against it is Cloquet's lack of a real track record at the state level, but you can turn this around and note how that just makes the rivalry that much better...Cloquet always gets up for East, no matter the situation.

That's just my two cents.

[chiefofmedicine]

not sure but im pretty sure the longest rivalry is between Saint Bernard's (St. Paul Saints) and Washington (St. Paul Como) when they play for the Rice St. Cup. its like at like 45 years i beleive. and now they are in the same conference.

[E]

Wb vs Hill

[komada77]

not sure but im pretty sure the longest rivalry is between Saint Bernard's (St. Paul Saints) and Washington (St. Paul Como) when they play for the Rice St. Cup. its like at like 45 years i beleive. and now they are in the same conference.

Teams up north like International Falls and Eveleth have been playing since the 1920s.

[HappyHockeyFan]

I personally like the Roseau Vs Warroad rivalry because the entire towns are involved. Whether or not they are in the same class both of there histories are so rich with former state champions, NHL players and Olympic champions. It means so much to all the towns people who wins even if they are not involved in the hockey program. With the other mentioned programs a vast majority of the people interested are people directly involved with their hockey programs or past alumni. There is no questions the Hill/WBL rivalry is huge and especially come sections, but most people involved in this years rivalry will move on from it in a couple of years where the people involved in the Roseau/Warroad rivalry will still be there 10, 20, 40 or more years from now still a part of it year after year.

[MNRinkRat]

Cloquet v.s. Duluth East

[east hockey]

Roseau-Warroad. No longer being in the same section has diminished it slightly but it's still the standard other rivalries try to measure up to.

East - Cloquet for its intensity and the fact that one of those teams often has to get past the other in order to get to the State Tournament.

White Bear - Hill-Murray for the same reason.

All three meet the proximity, longevity, importance and the "we can't stand those bums!" criteria. They're all fantastic games to see.

Others need not apply.

Lee

[power92]

Public vs. Private or..
Metro vs outstate.

at least if you go by this "bored".

but for real, East- Cloquet was the biggest game(s) of the year when I was there..... and that was a loooonnnggg time ago.

[minnhock1228]

I would have to agree that the best metro rivalry is Hill vs. WBL, has been for quite some time. I remember when I went to the game with my dad, cause he graduated from Hill. The game was just so fast paced, and physical as all hell. For best state rivalry that's hard. That would also have to be my pick for best state rivalry as well, just because when you watch the game you can feel the rivalry in the air.

[mnhockey30]

Edina Vs. Benilde may not seem like a big rivalry but it is because one it is a public vs. private school showdown and also, due to the fact that the majority of kids know kids from the other team.

[pacman]

If your From up North there is...

Hibbing-Virginia
Virginia-Eveleth (although Virginia Usually Stomps Eveleth)
Greenway-Grand Rapids
Grand Rapids-Hibbing.

[trum3boarder]

centennial vs blaine

[UpNorthStars]

This thread comes up every year, but I will answer it anyways with the answer everyone expects to come out of me.

With all due respect to the many quality rivalries out there, there are 3 that are consistently mentioned as being the best: Warroad-Roseau, Hill-WBL, and East-Cloquet.

Aesthetically, Warroad-Roseau is probably the most pleasing. It features two programs with great histories that bring the entire small town out to their cozy, old arenas to play some pure northern hockey. My complaints with it are that 1) it's pretty one-sided; and 2) the two teams aren't even in the same class, which really kills a lot of the tension. Bragging rights are the only thing at stake; perhaps because of that, 3) there just doesn't seem to be enough solid hatred out there.


That's just my two cents.

Spoken like a true idiot. Where do i start? First of all it's roseau that has the little old rink. Warroad has a big new arena. Pretty one sided? I'm guessing you're thinking roseau has been dominant. Why don't you go back 20 years and see who's record is better. Third, have you been to a game? You tell me how much tension is gone....

[EREmpireStrikesBack]

Old vs. New

[komada77]

This thread comes up every year, but I will answer it anyways with the answer everyone expects to come out of me.

With all due respect to the many quality rivalries out there, there are 3 that are consistently mentioned as being the best: Warroad-Roseau, Hill-WBL, and East-Cloquet.

Aesthetically, Warroad-Roseau is probably the most pleasing. It features two programs with great histories that bring the entire small town out to their cozy, old arenas to play some pure northern hockey. My complaints with it are that 1) it's pretty one-sided; and 2) the two teams aren't even in the same class, which really kills a lot of the tension. Bragging rights are the only thing at stake; perhaps because of that, 3) there just doesn't seem to be enough solid hatred out there.


That's just my two cents.

Spoken like a true idiot. Where do i start? First of all it's roseau that has the little old rink. Warroad has a big new arena. Pretty one sided? I'm guessing you're thinking roseau has been dominant. Why don't you go back 20 years and see who's record is better. Third, have you been to a game? You tell me how much tension is gone....

First of all, you're a prick. Stop being so judgmental. Second, like you said Warroad has a new arena, so in the recent history of the rivalry the games have been played at a little cozy rink. Third, all anyone cares about is the recent history. No one cares about what happened 20 years ago. And you do have a point with the tension thing. I've never been to a game, but I find it hard to believe that you couldn't cut the tension in the arena with a knife when these two match up.

[Rossbury21]

Being that I played in the Classic Suburban I don't know much outside of there yet, so here is what I think from what I have seen.

South St. Paul and Johnson-its not a big rivalry, and only the players know about it, but they have had a traveling trophy which is a skate worn by Gov. Wendell Anderson in the Olympics.

South St. Paul and Simley-Bordering cities, alot of the players hang out outside of hockey, and now with the two youth associations joining their bantam programs it will only get bigger.

Hill Murray and St. Thomas- yeah they are not in the same class, but it is always the game that decides who wins the conference that year.

Hill Murray and WBL- They share a rink, everyone knows about this one

St. Thomas and Cretin Derham Hall-Highland Arena gets packed well above Capacity, even before the JV game ends, and STA arena fills up pretty good for this annual game.

Yes it is kind of biased being that I haven't seen any others, but if you are around for any of these games check them out, it will be worth the four bucks and pop and popcorn.

[karl(east)]

This thread comes up every year, but I will answer it anyways with the answer everyone expects to come out of me.

With all due respect to the many quality rivalries out there, there are 3 that are consistently mentioned as being the best: Warroad-Roseau, Hill-WBL, and East-Cloquet.

Aesthetically, Warroad-Roseau is probably the most pleasing. It features two programs with great histories that bring the entire small town out to their cozy, old arenas to play some pure northern hockey. My complaints with it are that 1) it's pretty one-sided; and 2) the two teams aren't even in the same class, which really kills a lot of the tension. Bragging rights are the only thing at stake; perhaps because of that, 3) there just doesn't seem to be enough solid hatred out there.


That's just my two cents.

Spoken like a true idiot. Where do i start? First of all it's roseau that has the little old rink. Warroad has a big new arena. Pretty one sided? I'm guessing you're thinking roseau has been dominant. Why don't you go back 20 years and see who's record is better. Third, have you been to a game? You tell me how much tension is gone....

Thank you for deigning to call me an idiot. That sure put me in my place.

1. Yes, I blew a detail on the Warroad Ice Gardens. Thank you for catching that. But I do not see how this in any way supports the argument you are trying to make.

2. Of course Warroad has had its periods of dominance in the rivalry; I could have told that without looking at any scores. Rivalries don't become rivalries without some basis of highly-charged competition. But I was assuming that the creator of this thread wanted to know what the best rivalry is today, not in 1988, which predates my birth. If I misinterpreted that, my bad. But if I didn't it's hard to deny this rivalry has been pretty one-sided lately.

I consider continued competitiveness to be an essential element of a high-quality rivalry. Perhaps you feel differently. Perhaps you have a different definition of a rivalry, which I would enjoy hearing.

I've been around a decent number of rivalries in my life. When we're out of hockey season, I live and die Yankees baseball (don't ask how that happened to a Minnesotan...but it did). The Yankees' rivalry with the Red Sox is huge, as everyone knows, perhaps the best in professional sports. But 10 years ago, when all was right in the universe and the Yankees consistently slaughtered the Red Sox, the rivalry wasn't nearly as engaging. While there was still plenty of hatred on the local level, particularly up in Boston, where they were rather sick of losing, it just wasn't as captivating, especially to Yankees fans. The Red Sox were just another team that was a bit more obnoxious than some of the others on the march to another pennant.

Should East-Cloquet move into a period over the next five years in which one team consistently beats up on the other, naturally some other rivalry will surpass it, even in my eyes.

3. Perhaps you wish to argue that Roseau-Warroad's ability to consistently captivate local fans on both sides in spite of the recent imbalance is an indication of its strength, which I would consider to be a good counter-argument. But now I'm making your arguments for you.

To this hypothetical situation, I would respond by noting that should this status quo endure (which I definitely do not expect), people will gradually start losing interest. Some sort of Yankees-Sox-pre-2004 Syndrome will emerge. There's also the statewide exposure aspect. People will, naturally, be far more drawn to rivalries that are competitive. When the aura around the game (atmosphere, fans, history, etc.) starts to exceed the quality of the action on the ice, the game is on life support. All that stuff is excellent and I love it all, but the game takes precedence.

4. I did not say that any tension has left the games. The phrase "the two teams aren't even in the same class, which kills a lot of the tension" is written in the present tense, which does not imply that the tension used to be there and is no longer, as you seem to have construed it. I'm sure the atmosphere in each arena is just as intense as it was 20 years ago; this game means the world to the 5,000ish people in the communities and their surrounding areas, it loses relevance for the other 4 million of us in this state when the game has no real reaching implications. Again, I am asserting here that a key component of a rivalry is its impact on the state hockey scene; most of the other people posting on this thread seem to agree on this point. It would be nonsensical to claim that Roseau-Warroad would not be a better rivalry if both were in the same section. Hence, potential for increasing its quality is being killed.

5. No, I haven't been to a Roseau-Warroad game. I'd love to go someday, though other priorities will likely make this next to impossible for a very long time. In spite of the harsh words above, I think this rivalry could easily return to the top; Warroad looks excellent this year, while Roseau's struggling a bit; perhaps they're moving back towards each other and will play thrilling hockey against each other in the near future. It's an incredibly special game as it is, and I thought I made that clear in the first post. Just not quite East-Cloquet at this point in time, in my estimation.

I was simply trying to advance a method by which we could separate the 3 consensus greatest rivaries in the state. I am sorry you have found my efforts to be true idiocy, and am interested in seeing your own methodology. I by no means assert my righteousness, and as I have made evident the variability in the definition of "rivalry" amongst different people.

---
Although history is only one piece of the puzzle, I'd be curious to see some more numbers from the past relating to the three we've cited as great rivalries, and perhaps Centennial-Blaine could be thrown in for fun as well, as it seems to be the most notable emerging rivalry.

I can say East is 10-8 vs. Cloquet in playoff games, and that the Hill-Murray-WBL margin is much more lopsided in the expected direction.

Also, out of sheer curiosity, has anyone been to all 3 (WBL-HM, DE-CEC,Roseau-Warroad)? That would be an interesting perspective on the issue, particularly were this person to not have a vested interest in one of the six that may cloud the judgment a bit.

[UpNorthStars]

This thread comes up every year, but I will answer it anyways with the answer everyone expects to come out of me.

With all due respect to the many quality rivalries out there, there are 3 that are consistently mentioned as being the best: Warroad-Roseau, Hill-WBL, and East-Cloquet.

Aesthetically, Warroad-Roseau is probably the most pleasing. It features two programs with great histories that bring the entire small town out to their cozy, old arenas to play some pure northern hockey. My complaints with it are that 1) it's pretty one-sided; and 2) the two teams aren't even in the same class, which really kills a lot of the tension. Bragging rights are the only thing at stake; perhaps because of that, 3) there just doesn't seem to be enough solid hatred out there.


That's just my two cents.

Spoken like a true idiot. Where do i start? First of all it's roseau that has the little old rink. Warroad has a big new arena. Pretty one sided? I'm guessing you're thinking roseau has been dominant. Why don't you go back 20 years and see who's record is better. Third, have you been to a game? You tell me how much tension is gone....

Thank you for deigning to call me an idiot. That sure put me in my place.

1. Yes, I blew a detail on the Warroad Ice Gardens. Thank you for catching that. But I do not see how this in any way supports the argument you are trying to make.

2. Of course Warroad has had its periods of dominance in the rivalry; I could have told that without looking at any scores. Rivalries don't become rivalries without some basis of highly-charged competition. But I was assuming that the creator of this thread wanted to know what the best rivalry is today, not in 1988, which predates my birth. If I misinterpreted that, my bad. But if I didn't it's hard to deny this rivalry has been pretty one-sided lately.

I consider continued competitiveness to be an essential element of a high-quality rivalry. Perhaps you feel differently. Perhaps you have a different definition of a rivalry, which I would enjoy hearing.

I've been around a decent number of rivalries in my life. When we're out of hockey season, I live and die Yankees baseball (don't ask how that happened to a Minnesotan...but it did). The Yankees' rivalry with the Red Sox is huge, as everyone knows, perhaps the best in professional sports. But 10 years ago, when all was right in the universe and the Yankees consistently slaughtered the Red Sox, the rivalry wasn't nearly as engaging. While there was still plenty of hatred on the local level, particularly up in Boston, where they were rather sick of losing, it just wasn't as captivating, especially to Yankees fans. The Red Sox were just another team that was a bit more obnoxious than some of the others on the march to another pennant.

Should East-Cloquet move into a period over the next five years in which one team consistently beats up on the other, naturally some other rivalry will surpass it, even in my eyes.

3. Perhaps you wish to argue that Roseau-Warroad's ability to consistently captivate local fans on both sides in spite of the recent imbalance is an indication of its strength, which I would consider to be a good counter-argument. But now I'm making your arguments for you.

To this hypothetical situation, I would respond by noting that should this status quo endure (which I definitely do not expect), people will gradually start losing interest. Some sort of Yankees-Sox-pre-2004 Syndrome will emerge. There's also the statewide exposure aspect. People will, naturally, be far more drawn to rivalries that are competitive. When the aura around the game (atmosphere, fans, history, etc.) starts to exceed the quality of the action on the ice, the game is on life support. All that stuff is excellent and I love it all, but the game takes precedence.

4. I did not say that any tension has left the games. The phrase "the two teams aren't even in the same class, which kills a lot of the tension" is written in the present tense, which does not imply that the tension used to be there and is no longer, as you seem to have construed it. I'm sure the atmosphere in each arena is just as intense as it was 20 years ago; this game means the world to the 5,000ish people in the communities and their surrounding areas, it loses relevance for the other 4 million of us in this state when the game has no real reaching implications. Again, I am asserting here that a key component of a rivalry is its impact on the state hockey scene; most of the other people posting on this thread seem to agree on this point. It would be nonsensical to claim that Roseau-Warroad would not be a better rivalry if both were in the same section. Hence, potential for increasing its quality is being killed.

5. No, I haven't been to a Roseau-Warroad game. I'd love to go someday, though other priorities will likely make this next to impossible for a very long time. In spite of the harsh words above, I think this rivalry could easily return to the top; Warroad looks excellent this year, while Roseau's struggling a bit; perhaps they're moving back towards each other and will play thrilling hockey against each other in the near future. It's an incredibly special game as it is, and I thought I made that clear in the first post. Just not quite East-Cloquet at this point in time, in my estimation.

I was simply trying to advance a method by which we could separate the 3 consensus greatest rivaries in the state. I am sorry you have found my efforts to be true idiocy, and am interested in seeing your own methodology. I by no means assert my righteousness, and as I have made evident the variability in the definition of "rivalry" amongst different people.

---
Although history is only one piece of the puzzle, I'd be curious to see some more numbers from the past relating to the three we've cited as great rivalries, and perhaps Centennial-Blaine could be thrown in for fun as well, as it seems to be the most notable emerging rivalry.

I can say East is 10-8 vs. Cloquet in playoff games, and that the Hill-Murray-WBL margin is much more lopsided in the expected direction.

Also, out of sheer curiosity, has anyone been to all 3 (WBL-HM, DE-CEC,Roseau-Warroad)? That would be an interesting perspective on the issue, particularly were this person to not have a vested interest in one of the six that may cloud the judgment a bit.

Wow, you sure wasted a lot of time typing all that when just one little line made my point!

[hustla17]

I would say cretin and st thomas

[RoundBaller]

I don't think any match-up is as big a rivalry as Roseau-Warroad, but I always enjoyed a good ol' USA vs Canada match-up when The Falls and Fort Frances got together. Rumor has it the Falls goalie was peeking over at a fight in the stands when he let in the OT goal this year. Back in the 80's you were lucky to come back to America with all your tires inflated and your windows in tact.