Senioritis

Mite-dad · Post by **Mite-dad** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:19 am

The post regarding the Centennial vs. Edina game got me to thinking if some of the seniors on the Edina team are having a let down. I've kind of seen the same thing with some of the Little Falls players (being a senior dominated team) not coming out with the same fire I've seen in previous years or earlier this season. My question is, at this point in the season, are some of these kids that have been playing varsity hockey for going on 4 years, getting wore out or just easing up due to just burning out or getting tired of it? I saw the same thing and experienced the same thing as a college athlete years ago. Thoughts?

Post by **karl(east)** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:51 am

I can see this happening, especially in cases where the season is starting to feel like a lost cause or things aren't going as well as expected.

I wouldn't expect it on teams like LF or Edina, though, as both their senior classes still have something to prove. I'm sure LF would love to shut up the people who say they're not deserving of high ranking because of their schedule, while Edina, for all its talent, still hasn't been able to win the big one.

In LF's case, I'd chalk it up to complacency over an easy schedule, if I had to quickly find something. For Edina, it might be more the opposite; a burnout from too many games against good competion.

HardF1 · Post by **HardF1** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:31 am

I can see some of the seniors on Edina giving up because they are ready to move on to the next level but then again you think they would want to win a state championship. None of them have been able to hoist the trophy accept for Lee and that was Class A..

They will remember this as the best time of their lives so they need to make the best of it.

The hornets still have to get past Jefferson in sections though :

dherman8 · Post by **dherman8** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:23 pm

Maybe Budish was more of a leader than we thought. Maybe LF just is over confident in games that involve teams with subpar records. Who knows.

scoreboard33 · Post by **scoreboard33** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:04 pm

I think there were two seniors on Edina who did not play their greatest, but both worked hard and seemed to let the frustration get to them. I don't think it is because of a lack of motivation that the players had a let down. I think that the Edina players need to learn to adjust to a team that can play with them. They have dominated top teams thorughout their schedule and everytime a team starts to play with them, the frustration seems to start earlier than it should. Everson and Lee expect to be able to do whatever they want on the ice and in the past years, for Edina, when things started to go bad, Budish and Gaarder came up big, while Everson and Lee didn't step up. Budish would always come up with a big play or hit at the right time and swing momentum. Gaarder has done some of that this year, but not quite to the extent that Budish was able to do it.

halla · Post by **halla** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:06 pm

scoreboard33 wrote: in the past years, for Edina, when things started to go bad, Budish and Gaarder came up big, while Everson and Lee didn't step up.

I don't know. In last year's final, with Edina facing an uphill climb, it was Lee who stood out among Edina's forwards, making things happen.

starmvp · Post by **starmvp** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:57 pm

Every player has their ups and downs and it just so happens Edina's key players aren't playing to their best ability right now. When it comes time for playoffs, Edina will be on a roll.

scoreboard33 · Post by **scoreboard33** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:31 pm

halla wrote:
scoreboard33 wrote: in the past years, for Edina, when things started to go bad, Budish and Gaarder came up big, while Everson and Lee didn't step up.
I don't know. In last year's final, with Edina facing an uphill climb, it was Lee who stood out among Edina's forwards, making things happen.

Thats just my opinion, but it seems that Budish, especially, always knows when a big play is needed and comes up with that big play.

Goldy Gopher · Post by **Goldy Gopher** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:42 pm

Inflammation of the senior?

Lucia4President · Post by **Lucia4President** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:25 pm

Goldy Gopher wrote:Inflammation of the senior?

Doglover · Post by **Doglover** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:43 pm

I think Edina's seniors are fine and maybe even more motivated to win a state championship I think they are just exhausted - they're playing too much - maybe because they want to or because Giles wants them to. Either way, I think it's too easy for teams to beat one line. Heck at the start of each game it's obvious that it's the top line against the entire other team - just look at them during the anthem with the remainder of the team still on the bench.

Yeah they ran into a hot goalie in Hopkins, and they ran into a hot goalie against Centennial and oh yeah - they ran into a hot goalie in the championship game against HM last year. What's going to happen when they run into a hot goalie in sections? They better have a plan B and I think they need to spread out the talent and not rely on Lee and Gaarder to get the puck to Everson on the doorstep to score. I think the other teams might have figured out that game plan by now!! They were winning with two solid lines in the beginning of the season - what was broke? Senioritis - no I don't think so. I think if they don't learn from history, history is destine to repeat.

Post by **karl(east)** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:02 am

Doglover wrote:Heck at the start of each game it's obvious that it's the top line against the entire other team - just look at them during the anthem with the remainder of the team still on the bench.

It probably doesn't really mean anything, but I do love the symbolism you can find in that statement. Very fitting.

formerlybackofnet · Post by **formerlybackofnet** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:00 am

Edina is a great team, so don't get me wrong, but they are pretty much a 1 line team. They showed the scoreing stats of the 2nd and 3rd lines on FSN on Tue night, and they dont score much, in fact a suggestion was made to break up the 1st line to add some scoring to the others. I was at the Hill game eariler this year and Lee was skating with the 2nd line, and we saw what happened there. they have the talent to go all the way, but not without losing a game or 2 along the way. I think to much is being made about a couple of losses.

halla · Post by **halla** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:04 am

karl(east) wrote:
Doglover wrote:Heck at the start of each game it's obvious that it's the top line against the entire other team - just look at them during the anthem with the remainder of the team still on the bench.
It probably doesn't really mean anything, but I do love the symbolism you can find in that statement. Very fitting.

Well, I'm certainly biased, here, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that it definitely doesn't mean anything. For regular season games, that's just the way the Edina varsity hockey team has done it for at least fifteen years (and probably quite a bit longer).

seek & destroy · Post by **seek & destroy** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:08 am

formerlybackofnet wrote:Edina is a great team, so don't get me wrong, but they are pretty much a 1 line team. They showed the scoreing stats of the 2nd and 3rd lines on FSN on Tue night, and they dont score much, in fact a suggestion was made to break up the 1st line to add some scoring to the others. I was at the Hill game eariler this year and Lee was skating with the 2nd line, and we saw what happened there. they have the talent to go all the way, but not without losing a game or 2 along the way. I think to much is being made about a couple of losses.

Couldn't agree more. So what, they lost a couple games against some good teams. The true test of a great team is what happens when it really matters...sections. Edina will be tested this year in their section playoffs because they will need to beat some top teams to go to state. These games right now mean very little compared to the big games coming up.

Because they have so many players who have played in big games before they will likely rise to the occasion and advance to state. Of course not having Buddish is a huge loss but they still have plenty of weapons. Quit worrying about whether they lose a few games now. Those senior players are well aware of when they need to step up and play their best. I expect that they will meet the challenge.

Post by **karl(east)** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:13 am

halla wrote:
karl(east) wrote:
Doglover wrote:Heck at the start of each game it's obvious that it's the top line against the entire other team - just look at them during the anthem with the remainder of the team still on the bench.
It probably doesn't really mean anything, but I do love the symbolism you can find in that statement. Very fitting.
Well, I'm certainly biased, here, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that it definitely doesn't mean anything. For regular season games, that's just the way the Edina varsity hockey team has done it for at least fifteen years (and probably quite a bit longer).

I figured it wasn't really anything.
But I'm still loving the poetic symbolism of that image.

hornetsnest · Post by **hornetsnest** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:18 am

Doglover wrote:I think Edina's seniors are fine and maybe even more motivated to win a state championship I think they are just exhausted - they're playing too much - maybe because they want to or because Giles wants them to. Either way, I think it's too easy for teams to beat one line. Heck at the start of each game it's obvious that it's the top line against the entire other team - just look at them during the anthem with the remainder of the team still on the bench.

Yeah they ran into a hot goalie in Hopkins, and they ran into a hot goalie against Centennial and oh yeah - they ran into a hot goalie in the championship game against HM last year. What's going to happen when they run into a hot goalie in sections? They better have a plan B and I think they need to spread out the talent and not rely on Lee and Gaarder to get the puck to Everson on the doorstep to score. I think the other teams might have figured out that game plan by now!! They were winning with two solid lines in the beginning of the season - what was broke? Senioritis - no I don't think so. I think if they don't learn from history, history is destine to repeat.

Doglover, I agree here with you, I would hardly doubt the Edina's seniors are bored or not motivated. We forget they stayed this year in High school to accomplish one thing and that is to win a State Championship. Budish is certainly missed as Edina then had 2 true playmakers/centers in both Budish and Lee. Lee and Gaarder have been the most consistent players for Edina and not having 2 playmaking centers is proving an issue. Moving Lee to center with Taft and Sit simply means Everson will have to step it up and add more dimension to his game. Gaarder will always be a team player and will play whatever role it takes to win. They have plenty of time to create some changes to their line-up and create more balance to their team. I also think the grind of their schedule is taking its toll to a degree.

The puck mobility that VanVoorhis provided is also missed on D, What Gleason could do offensively last year is missing this year at defense. Edina lacks a consistent offensive rush from their defense.

Fun and Games · Post by **Fun and Games** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:10 pm

I noticed at the last Edina hockey game, many of the seniors' fans were missing. Do the hockey players know there is swimming, basketball, comp cheer, soccer, and other association hockey teams just to name a few that their friends play on? Maybe if the hockey players and their parents would take some time to go to some of the other events at the high school and other important association hockey games their friends play on their fan base might return to cheer them on. Players will play "up" when they have a strong fan base no matter what level they play. Hats off to Minnetonka and Eden Prairie fans who come to support their players at all levels.

hornetsnest · Post by **hornetsnest** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:25 pm

Fun and Games wrote:I noticed at the last Edina hockey game, many of the seniors' fans were missing. Do the hockey players know there is swimming, basketball, comp cheer, soccer, and other association hockey teams just to name a few that their friends play on? Maybe if the hockey players and their parents would take some time to go to some of the other events at the high school and other important association hockey games their friends play on their fan base might return to cheer them on. Players will play "up" when they have a strong fan base no matter what level they play. Hats off to Minnetonka and Eden Prairie fans who come to support their players at all levels.

I am afraid F&G you are "Spot on" Hockey in Edina certainly takes on an elitist vibe at certain levels. Tough crowd.

Doglover · Post by **Doglover** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:38 pm

Hornetsnest - You present an excellent analysis - second only to the very detailed, statistic driven one you presented on a different thread. I'm not even slightly close to this situation but the wisdom of your posts is obvious to most. It concerns me the folks that don't put much stock in these two losses. I also am afraid that we have all done Centennial and Hopkins (and I would include EP and HM) a big disservice in all of our talk about Edina just being tired by the tough schedule and pressure to stay on top. These teams are impressive, have tons of talent and obviously very smart coaching.

hornetsnest · Post by **hornetsnest** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:25 pm

Doglover wrote:Hornetsnest - You present an excellent analysis - second only to the very detailed, statistic driven one you presented on a different thread. I'm not even slightly close to this situation but the wisdom of your posts is obvious to most. It concerns me the folks that don't put much stock in these two losses. I also am afraid that we have all done Centennial and Hopkins (and I would include EP and HM) a big disservice in all of our talk about Edina just being tired by the tough schedule and pressure to stay on top. These teams are impressive, have tons of talent and obviously very smart coaching.

What makes this year interesting is perhaps five teams have legitimate chances at a State Championship. What may prove the difference this year may be how each team fine tunes their team between now and Sections and their approach to individual game match-ups as they move on.

halla · Post by **halla** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:06 pm

hornetsnest wrote:The puck mobility that VanVoorhis provided is also missed on D

Thank you. I was wondering if I was the only one around here who felt this way. The blueline is a bit stretched without him.

BodyShots · Post by **BodyShots** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:19 pm

hornetsnest wrote:
Doglover wrote:Hornetsnest - You present an excellent analysis - second only to the very detailed, statistic driven one you presented on a different thread. I'm not even slightly close to this situation but the wisdom of your posts is obvious to most. It concerns me the folks that don't put much stock in these two losses. I also am afraid that we have all done Centennial and Hopkins (and I would include EP and HM) a big disservice in all of our talk about Edina just being tired by the tough schedule and pressure to stay on top. These teams are impressive, have tons of talent and obviously very smart coaching.
What makes this year interesting is perhaps five teams have legitimate chances at a State Championship. What may prove the difference this year may be how each team fine tunes their team between now and Sections and their approach to individual game match-ups as they move on.

Let me guess, Edina is one of your five!

scoreboard33 · Post by **scoreboard33** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:06 pm

Hornetsnest, I surprisingly agree with just about everything you have said here. The one thing I think is that it is not the hockey players fault that they have don't have great fan support. The football also struggled with fan support and one hornet football player even told me that a kid said, "you have no chance against Wayzata, so no one is going to go." Heard similiar things around the EP game. The hockey players go to a lot of sporting events and I don't think they brought this on themselves. Last year, Edina had great student support at every game and the year before it was equally impressive. The problem I see is not the hockey teams fault, it is Edina's seniors fault.

I also think that Edina's defense has been fairly solid, even without Van Voorhis, but only Baker is willing to start trying to take over a game offensively as well as playing defense.

Another thing that was missing this year and also last year is a speedy forward, like Matt Reber. Almost all Edina's scoring power comes from the power game, with Gaarder being the only possible exception, and no one can take over a game from a skating stand point, which in all reality, high school hockey is still a skating game, not a system game.

Doglover · Post by **Doglover** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:21 am

Not sure I agree with the assessment that Edina's defense has been solid without VanVoorhis. I think there have been significant breakdowns in Edina's defensive game recently and they do miss VanVoorhis on the blue line. Baker is solid though no doubt. Excellent hockey player but I wish he would get a bit more offensive. There appears to be no replacement for Gleason. I've been disappointed with the few games I've seen the other dmen play.

Also don't agree on the speed of the forwards. I think that is one of Edina's strengths maybe with the surprising exception of the first line. Unlike Centennial's first line that is really fast and creative, I think Edina's first line is strong and smart but not the fastest group of forwards. Watching them move the puck is just amazing but I think it's the other two lines for Edina that are the fastest. Speed might be one of their biggest strengths with Taft, Sit, Eppel, Cutshall and Chapman. Probably just need to be given a bit of confidence in their role. If the expectation is your job is to play defensively and let the first line rest (especially if they are playing every other shift and power plays and penalty kills), it's not a big surprise they are not putting up many points. The skill is there though from what games I've seen.

With Jefferson rolling three solid lines, I think it will be a tough match up and could come down to goalies if Edina stays with one line. Agree that the Edina seniors have probably stuck around to win the State Championship but without their leader - Zach Budish - they appear to be struggling. He did always come up with the big goals/plays when they really needed it. I certainly miss watching him play this year. Good thing he'll stay in MN with the Gophers!

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