What really happened??

[bigcat]

From what I heard
New Hope Tourny A Bantam Championship game
Tartan vs. Burnsville start of 3rd period -
ref blows whistle - 1 team still huddling around coach -
ref drops puck with only one team ready to play.

[trippedovertheblueline]

That is not unusual. More then likely the ref or refs had given the late team a warning. The ref blows the whistle to begin, the game or period you need to be ready. It is not a option. I was not a this said trny, but the scenario is played out in every arena. I would like to see more drop it when the game is to begin, again.

[Mr. Bo Dangles]

Give delay of game penalty. don't just drop the puck.

[CoachJ]

Did the team score?

Why wouldn't they just call to many man on the ice or delay of game.

A championship game and a 2-1 Finish and the refs have to act like that.

Keep up the good work refs the game should be decided that way.

[inthestands]

Did the refs decide it, or did the coaches of the team not ready to play decide it?

Isn't it so easy to always point a finger at the officials... I wasn't there, but it sounds like one team was ready to go?

[philip18]

Coaches fault not ref.

[muckandgrind]

Coaches fault not ref.

Exactly, the refs need to keep to the schedule. If they feel the coaches are holding the game up, they will generally warn them and if that warning goes unheeded, the puck will drop. I've seen it before.

[nahc]

I guarantee these are the same types of refs who hold play up while positioning players by inches during faceoffs........these refs MUST be part of the game and will certainly assure they make enough calls to determine the outcome as usual...........

[QuackerTracker]

This is not how the rule is writen. You can not drop the puck when a team is not ready for a faceoff.

Rule 632 Refusing to Start Play

(a)
If, when both teams are on the ice, one team for any reason shall refuse to play when ordered to do so by the Referee, he shall warn the Captain and allow the team so refusing 15 seconds within which time to begin the game or resume play. If at the end of that time the team shall still refuse to play, the Referee shall impose a bench minor penalty on the offending team and the case shall be reported to the proper authorities for further action. Should there be a recurrence of the same incident, the Referee shall have no alternative but to suspend the game and impose a match penalty on the offending Team Official(s) responsible for the incident.

(b)
If a team, when ordered to do so by an On-Ice Official, through a Team Official, fails to go onto the ice promptly, it shall receive a bench minor penalty. If the team fails to go onto the ice and start play within five minutes, the game shall be suspended and the offending Team Official(s) shall be assessed a match penalty.

(Note) The local governing body or Disciplinary Committee
shall determine whether the suspended game shall be
deemed completed, forfeited, resumed from the point of
suspension or cancelled and shall issue instructions
pertaining to records, etc.

[icedad]

According to USA Hockey's official handbook:

"The Official conducting the face-off shall blow his whistle. This
will signal each team that they have no more than five
seconds to line up for the ensuing face-off."

Now do most refs always drop it within the 5 seconds? Probably not. But the rule is there for teams that are stalling eith to run time off the clock in a runtime game or to give their top line a little more rest.

[Rocket78]

This is not how the rule is writen. You can not drop the puck when a team is not ready for a faceoff.

Rule 632 Refusing to Start Play

(a)
If, when both teams are on the ice, one team for any reason shall refuse to play when ordered to do so by the Referee, he shall warn the Captain and allow the team so refusing 15 seconds within which time to begin the game or resume play. If at the end of that time the team shall still refuse to play, the Referee shall impose a bench minor penalty on the offending team and the case shall be reported to the proper authorities for further action. Should there be a recurrence of the same incident, the Referee shall have no alternative but to suspend the game and impose a match penalty on the offending Team Official(s) responsible for the incident.

(b)
If a team, when ordered to do so by an On-Ice Official, through a Team Official, fails to go onto the ice promptly, it shall receive a bench minor penalty. If the team fails to go onto the ice and start play within five minutes, the game shall be suspended and the offending Team Official(s) shall be assessed a match penalty.

(Note) The local governing body or Disciplinary Committee
shall determine whether the suspended game shall be
deemed completed, forfeited, resumed from the point of
suspension or cancelled and shall issue instructions
pertaining to records, etc.

Wrong rule. Look at faceoff 611 and note paragraph C

[wannagototherink]

This is not how the rule is writen. You can not drop the puck when a team is not ready for a faceoff.

Rule 632 Refusing to Start Play

(a)
If, when both teams are on the ice, one team for any reason shall refuse to play when ordered to do so by the Referee, he shall warn the Captain and allow the team so refusing 15 seconds within which time to begin the game or resume play. If at the end of that time the team shall still refuse to play, the Referee shall impose a bench minor penalty on the offending team and the case shall be reported to the proper authorities for further action. Should there be a recurrence of the same incident, the Referee shall have no alternative but to suspend the game and impose a match penalty on the offending Team Official(s) responsible for the incident.

(b)
If a team, when ordered to do so by an On-Ice Official, through a Team Official, fails to go onto the ice promptly, it shall receive a bench minor penalty. If the team fails to go onto the ice and start play within five minutes, the game shall be suspended and the offending Team Official(s) shall be assessed a match penalty.

(Note) The local governing body or Disciplinary Committee
shall determine whether the suspended game shall be
deemed completed, forfeited, resumed from the point of
suspension or cancelled and shall issue instructions
pertaining to records, etc.

This rule is about a team not willing to start the game. This has nothing to do with delaying the start of the game. Didn't something like this happen in a bantam state championship game a few years back?

[elliott70]

This is not how the rule is writen. You can not drop the puck when a team is not ready for a faceoff.

Rule 632 Refusing to Start Play

(a)
If, when both teams are on the ice, one team for any reason shall refuse to play when ordered to do so by the Referee, he shall warn the Captain and allow the team so refusing 15 seconds within which time to begin the game or resume play. If at the end of that time the team shall still refuse to play, the Referee shall impose a bench minor penalty on the offending team and the case shall be reported to the proper authorities for further action. Should there be a recurrence of the same incident, the Referee shall have no alternative but to suspend the game and impose a match penalty on the offending Team Official(s) responsible for the incident.

(b)
If a team, when ordered to do so by an On-Ice Official, through a Team Official, fails to go onto the ice promptly, it shall receive a bench minor penalty. If the team fails to go onto the ice and start play within five minutes, the game shall be suspended and the offending Team Official(s) shall be assessed a match penalty.

(Note) The local governing body or Disciplinary Committee
shall determine whether the suspended game shall be
deemed completed, forfeited, resumed from the point of
suspension or cancelled and shall issue instructions
pertaining to records, etc.

This rule is about a team not willing to start the game. This has nothing to do with delaying the start of the game. Didn't something like this happen in a bantam state championship game a few years back?

Failure to take the ice at any time during the game is a match penalty.

In this case the ref should not have dropped the puck, but called a delay of game penalty.
If they continued to fail to present themselves for the game, a match penalty should have been called. The game would have been called and the offending team would forfeit.

[inthestands]

E70, although that is the "written" rule can you imagine the fallout had a minor penalty been given out, and then moved along to the next level?

This is a no win situation for the game officials. No matter what they do, they are going to be criticized heavily for it.

Dropping the puck "could" have been the best lesson for all involved.

[elliott70]

E70, although that is the "written" rule can you imagine the fallout had a minor penalty been given out, and then moved along to the next level?

This is a no win situation for the game officials. No matter what they do, they are going to be criticized heavily for it.

Dropping the puck "could" have been the best lesson for all involved.

Refs are put in a bad postion by the coach.

[Blue&Gold]

E70, although that is the "written" rule can you imagine the fallout had a minor penalty been given out, and then moved along to the next level?

This is a no win situation for the game officials. No matter what they do, they are going to be criticized heavily for it.

Dropping the puck "could" have been the best lesson for all involved.

Refs are put in a bad postion by the coach.

No, the refs allowed themselves to look stupid because of the coaches. They could have handled it in a more professional manner and called a penalty instead of making it a travisty by dropping the puck when one team isn't ready to play for whatever reason. This move makes them (refs) look very biased whereas a penalty at least makes it look like a game.

You and I both know that there are several refs in the state who are nothing but egomaniacs who would do this for no other reason than to make a coach look stupid instead of doing the professional thing for the integrity of the game.

[Indians forever]

To put it plain and simple the ref should of issued a bench minor at that point.

[elliott70]

E70, although that is the "written" rule can you imagine the fallout had a minor penalty been given out, and then moved along to the next level?

This is a no win situation for the game officials. No matter what they do, they are going to be criticized heavily for it.

Dropping the puck "could" have been the best lesson for all involved.

Refs are put in a bad postion by the coach.

No, the refs allowed themselves to look stupid because of the coaches. They could have handled it in a more professional manner and called a penalty instead of making it a travisty by dropping the puck when one team isn't ready to play for whatever reason. This move makes them (refs) look very biased whereas a penalty at least makes it look like a game.

You and I both know that there are several refs in the state who are nothing but egomaniacs who would do this for no other reason than to make a coach look stupid instead of doing the professional thing for the integrity of the game.

As per my other post stating what should have been done, I agree with you (in part).
But the coach was the responsible person.
Not having been there, I have to assume that the whistle was blown, the coach warned, and then told 'that something was going to happen' even if it was the wrong thing.
So assuming the puck was not just dropped, the coach was at fault for creating the situation.
The ref screwed up after that AND that should have been corrected before teh ensuing puck drop BUT as everyone knows we do not live in a perfect world.

[QuackerTracker]

According to USA Hockey's official handbook:

"The Official conducting the face-off shall blow his whistle. This
will signal each team that they have no more than five
seconds to line up for the ensuing face-off."

Now do most refs always drop it within the 5 seconds? Probably not. But the rule is there for teams that are stalling eith to run time off the clock in a runtime game or to give their top line a little more rest.

The rule does not state "drop the puck", it states line up for the face off. You have to nterpret the rule correctly

Rule 611 Face-Offs:

(a)
At the conclusion of the line change procedure, the Official conducting the face-off shall blow his whistle. This will signal each team that they have no more than five seconds to line up for the ensuing face-off. Prior to the conclusion of five seconds, the Official shall conduct a proper face-off. If any player other than the players facing off fails to maintain a proper position, the center of that team shall be ejected from the face-off.

(b)
A second violation of any of the provisions of subsection (a) hereof by the same team during the same face-off shall be penalized with a minor penalty to the player who commits the second violation of the rule.

If the players fail to line up after five seconds the center would be removed. If after an addition five seconds the players fail to line up a minor penalty would be given the the offending team.

[muckandgrind]

E70, although that is the "written" rule can you imagine the fallout had a minor penalty been given out, and then moved along to the next level?

This is a no win situation for the game officials. No matter what they do, they are going to be criticized heavily for it.

Dropping the puck "could" have been the best lesson for all involved.

Refs are put in a bad postion by the coach.

No, the refs allowed themselves to look stupid because of the coaches. They could have handled it in a more professional manner and called a penalty instead of making it a travisty by dropping the puck when one team isn't ready to play for whatever reason. This move makes them (refs) look very biased whereas a penalty at least makes it look like a game.

You and I both know that there are several refs in the state who are nothing but egomaniacs who would do this for no other reason than to make a coach look stupid instead of doing the professional thing for the integrity of the game.

I realize the NHL isn't youth hockey, but there is a new rule in the NHL that if a team has only 15 seconds to change lines during a stoppage in place. If a team is too slow to get in place for the face off, then the ref will drop the puck whether they are ready or not.

Coaches have to get their teams ready to play. I wasn't there, but my guess is the refs probably warned the offending coaches at least one time, but probably more than that.

Sure, he could have called a penalty, but I also don't have any problem with a ref dropping the puck IF the coach had already been warned ahead of time.

[inthestands]

I'm wondering how many giving opinions either way have any coaching and or officiating experience.

E70, not including you. You're exempt from that one...

[Who else?]

M&G

I'm on the fence with this one. I definitely don't like coaches who stall, but Refs are given very specific guidelines on what they can do... it's called the rule book. The only variable is their quality of judgement.

If we're really talking about a game of this magnitude (i believe this was a tournament) and this close of an outcome (2-1, but we didn't hear if it lead to a goal) I would have to say this... the Ref should be 'spoken to' about this incident.

Whether the coach was right, wrong, or indifferent - the rules dictate what the Referee should have done in this situation. 2:00 for delay of game.

A Ref cannot impose 'themselves' to control a game... only the rule book.

Another factual situation... Team A is up 9-0 with 4 seconds left in the 3rd period. Team A player tries to clear puck out of the zone using the glass and the puck goes into the crowd. Team A is called for delay of game. Team A loses fair play point in a close district as a result.

Did the Ref really have to impose himself in this situation? Outside of the NHL, does this penalty exist or ever called at this level? I know High School and NCAA does not enforce it. Furthermore, knowing the game is wrapped up and Team A has no intention or gain by delaying the game? He berated the player by saying, "I know it was on purpose... blah blah blah". <How should you judge intent>

13 year old Refs are one thing, but 30+ year olds should have better judgement and knowlege of the rules.

I think Refs should be more accountable for their judgement (good and bad).

[inthestands]

I think Refs should be more accountable for their judgement (good and bad).

This statement would lead me to believe there is no accountability for officials good or bad? I don't buy that.

[QuackerTracker]

M&G-
A ref can't just decide they want to drop the puck. The rules are VERY CLEAR on this.

WE?-
The only rule that USA Hockey has for shooting the puck out of play requires that the player intended to do it, except for the goalie who can not shoot it out of play. The NHL and NCAA (I think it's new for the NCAA this year) give a minor to any player who shoots the puck out of play regardless of intent.

Rule 609 Delaying the Game
(a) A minor penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who delays the game by deliberately shooting or batting the puck with his stick outside the playing area.

(Note) This penalty shall apply also when a player or goalkeeper deliberately bats or shoots the puck with his stick outside the playing area after a stoppage of play.

(b) A minor penalty shall be imposed on a goalkeeper who shoots the puck directly (nondeflected) outside of the playing area, except that no penalty shall apply if the puck inadvertently leaves the playing area in a location that is not protected by glass or screen.

[muckandgrind]

M&G-
A ref can't just decide they want to drop the puck. The rules are VERY CLEAR on this.

WE?-
The only rule that USA Hockey has for shooting the puck out of play requires that the player intended to do it, except for the goalie who can not shoot it out of play. The NHL and NCAA (I think it's new for the NCAA this year) give a minor to any player who shoots the puck out of play regardless of intent.

Rule 609 Delaying the Game
(a) A minor penalty shall be imposed on any player or goalkeeper who delays the game by deliberately shooting or batting the puck with his stick outside the playing area.

(Note) This penalty shall apply also when a player or goalkeeper deliberately bats or shoots the puck with his stick outside the playing area after a stoppage of play.

(b) A minor penalty shall be imposed on a goalkeeper who shoots the puck directly (nondeflected) outside of the playing area, except that no penalty shall apply if the puck inadvertently leaves the playing area in a location that is not protected by glass or screen.

Sure they can. Read Rule 611(c): If, after warning by the Referee or Linesman, either of the players fail to take his proper position within 5 seconds, the Official shall be entitled to face-off the puck notwithstanding such default.