The new Lake Conference (for now)

[hockeydad]

According to John Millea at the Star Tribune, the MSHSL approved placement of the four Classic Lake Conference Schools (Edina, Hopkins, Minnetonka and Wayzata) into the Lake Conference for next season. With Chaska and Chanhassen leaving, that means a 14-team conference next season, but many expect there to be an exodus of Dakota County teams and more conference shuffling before the dust settles

Thoughts?

[Frozen Water]

Im confused? Why are other Lake schools so opposed to these 4 schools joining their conference? If I remember correctly, didn't these schools used to play in the Lake in the 90's?

[Papa Bergundy]

It's not just about hockey. Eden Prairie, Wayzata, Tonka and heck even Edina sometimes are powerhouses in football. Some of those Lake teams could compete in hockey, but other sports stand no chance. Except Eden Prairie, which is why they are staying in the Lake.

[BodyShots]

It's not just about hockey. Eden Prairie, Wayzata, Tonka and heck even Edina sometimes are powerhouses in football. Some of those Lake teams could compete in hockey, but other sports stand no chance. Except Eden Prairie, which is why they are staying in the Lake.

They stood no chance against EP in the past. So what is the difference between 1st loser, 2nd loser, etc.

[goldy313]

Personally I think they should have split the group up and sent at least 2 of them somehwhere else, preferrably the NWSC but with the probability of a new Dakota Conference the MSHSL would have been back at this again in 2 years, at least now there is at least a good chance of the Lake just splitting so to speak and casting off the newcomers and Eden Prairie and the MSHSL won't have to get involved.

Frozen Water, to the best of my recollection those schools left in the mid 80's if not before. When Apple Valley and Rosemount became "AA" schools the Lake split into the Classic Lake with 3 of the original Lake schools and the Lake with no original schools other than the Bloomington school district.

It's kind of ironic that the schools who complain the most had no problem when the enrollments, money and athletic power resided with them i.e. Burnsville, Apple Valley, Kennedy. Now that there are new big dogs they all of sudden claim it's unfair.

[hockeydad]

History lesson:

Apple Valley and Rosemount left (actually were booted out of) the Missota in the mid- to late-80s. I know they were still in the Missota in 85-86, i think their last year was 86-87.

The Classic Lake was established in 1993, according to Wikipedia

[MNHockeyFan]

Just out:

Lake Conference is history
Last update: September 3, 2009 - 12:01 PM
By John Millea

http://www.startribune.com/blogs/569413 ... :_Yyc:aUUr

The new league will come to life one year from now, in the fall of 2010. The schools involved are Apple Valley, Eagan, Eastview, Rosemount, Bloomington Jefferson, Bloomington Kennedy, Burnsville, Lakeville North, Lakeville South and Prior Lake. All are currently members of the Lake Conference except Prior Lake, which is in the Missota Conference.

This leaves Eden Prairie hanging as the only Lake Conference team left out of the new league. The Eagles will be linked with the four Classic Lake schools -- Edina, Hopkins, Minnetonka and Wayzata -- as a five-team league that will have to find a solution. The reason the Classic Lake dissolved, after all, was the headaches in trying to find enough opponents to fill schedules in all sports.

I just talked to Hopkins athletic director Dan Johnson, who had not heard the news. He was understandably disappointed.

"It probably puts us back in a similar situation to what we have right now," he said. "We’ll try to fill schedules, try to fill vacancies with nonconference opponents. It’s a huge, huge task. It’s unfortunate. We would like to be a good member of a nice big conference and fill up our schedules and fill them up fairly close to home. Maybe that’s not going to happen this time."

[goldy313]

Isn't 5 schools enough so that the MSHSL doesn't have to step in? The Classic Lake had 5 until Armstrong moved out leaving them with Edina, Wayzata, Minnetonka, and Hopkins.

JMO but Farmington made a huge mistake not going in this new conference, they'd have been with same sized schools and had travel reduced.

[summer]

JMO but Farmington made a huge mistake not going in this new conference, they'd have been with same sized schools and had travel reduced.

I agree, but they would've only been able to compete in girls hockey and boys track!

[Westsidefan]

Is there any truth to the rumor that the new "South Suburban" conference will require their boys hockey teams to wear skirts instead of breezers next year, so that they can show what they've got?

[Nobodyonya]

Is there any truth to the rumor that the new "South Suburban" conference will require their boys hockey teams to wear skirts instead of breezers next year, so that they can show what they've got?

[keepyourheadup]

Good point westside, I'm sure this conference allignment was done first and foremost with boys hockey in mind. Forget the cost savings in these tough economic times and just focus on one sliver of the high school athletic experience. Maybe the answer was to have super size schools so we could feel better about ourselves and just disregard all those third line bantam a players who'll never pull on a varsity jersey. A cheap shot at best.

[shakey]

Good point westside, I'm sure this conference allignment was done first and foremost with boys hockey in mind. Forget the cost savings in these tough economic times and just focus on one sliver of the high school athletic experience. Maybe the answer was to have super size schools so we could feel better about ourselves and just disregard all those third line bantam a players who'll never pull on a varsity jersey. A cheap shot at best.

pullyourheadout - You were doing a good job of admonishing westside until you made an equally ignorant comment and put yourself just as far out of bounds.

[keepyourheadup]

shakeyatbest...my comment was pointed at one poster, not a whole conference. Sorry you didn't see a difference.

[Westsidefan]

I apologize for the poor effort at humor. Just seems strange that the new conference took the opportunity presented by the MSHSL action to essentially kick EP out of the Lake Conference. Same results could have been achieved by negotiating a division system or realignment in the schools to a north/south grouping.

Looking at the enrollment figures from the MSHSL website, it is too bad they didn't send Wayzata and Hopkins north, and Edina & Tonka south. See http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/enrollments09.asp?sort=2

The real problem in my view is that the MSHSL doesn't have the authority to realign conferences to keep up with demographic changes. THe Classic Lake had to create the crisis by kicking Armstrong out, then the Lake Conference schools use it as a way to get rid of EP, and if the Classic Lake schools kick EP out we'd be right back where we started. Not sure there is enough support in the legislature to give the MSHSL the authority to do that, but in the absence of AD's and administrators willing to step up and do the right thing, it may be the only fair way to deal with it.

If the MSHSL had the authority to realign, they could make a pretty nice "big school" conference in the west/northwest metro, and probably the same on the east/southeast side. [/url]

[keepyourheadup]

Apology gladly excepted and I agree with your post, a northwest conference makes great sense and in my opinion adding tonka, hopkins and wayzata to that group would have allowed ep and edina to move south and keep their history with bloomington intact. The system in its current form is a mess.

[heresaymatters]

I apologize for the poor effort at humor. Just seems strange that the new conference took the opportunity presented by the MSHSL action to essentially kick EP out of the Lake Conference. Same results could have been achieved by negotiating a division system or realignment in the schools to a north/south grouping.

Looking at the enrollment figures from the MSHSL website, it is too bad they didn't send Wayzata and Hopkins north, and Edina & Tonka south. See http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/enrollments09.asp?sort=2

The real problem in my view is that the MSHSL doesn't have the authority to realign conferences to keep up with demographic changes. THe Classic Lake had to create the crisis by kicking Armstrong out, then the Lake Conference schools use it as a way to get rid of EP, and if the Classic Lake schools kick EP out we'd be right back where we started. Not sure there is enough support in the legislature to give the MSHSL the authority to do that, but in the absence of AD's and administrators willing to step up and do the right thing, it may be the only fair way to deal with it.

If the MSHSL had the authority to realign, they could make a pretty nice "big school" conference in the west/northwest metro, and probably the same on the east/southeast side. [/url]

Westsidefan, if you can keep your humor in check you may gain a real following. You make an excellent point - the MSHL should be given the authority to rationalize this situation. Its obvious leaving it to the self-interested parties is not working. Maybe we should all contact our state legislators to push for this?

[goldy313]

More than anything this is a football issue, on a hockey centric board we tend to look at things from that view but Cretin was kicked out of the St Paul City largely due to football, hockey was dieing and the public schools could be competitive in other sports, not win much but they did some times.

Drop conferences all together and align by section, Iowa does it and Wisconsin is moving to it next year.

[karl(east)]

Drop conferences all together and align by section, Iowa does it and Wisconsin is moving to it next year.

Yaay, I'm glad someone said this.

Conferences serve no purpose in MN HS sports, other than making scheduling a bit easier. I don't think the state will lose a thing by getting rid of them. Old rivalries won't go anywhere.

[summer]

Drop conferences all together and align by section, Iowa does it and Wisconsin is moving to it next year.

Yaay, I'm glad someone said this.

Conferences serve no purpose in MN HS sports, other than making scheduling a bit easier. I don't think the state will lose a thing by getting rid of them. Old rivalries won't go anywhere.

And if the Section was the conference, scheduling wouldn't be that difficult either. It would make some teams stronger, playing their section foes they usually don't before the playoffs. I remember a time when conferences were more aligned with sections (or regions), or vice versa, it made sense, but that changed to get more Lake Conference teams to state! At that time only one Lake Conference team could get to state, now three can (counting the old Classic Lake which teams were part of the old old Lake).

[karl(east)]

Drop conferences all together and align by section, Iowa does it and Wisconsin is moving to it next year.

Yaay, I'm glad someone said this.

Conferences serve no purpose in MN HS sports, other than making scheduling a bit easier. I don't think the state will lose a thing by getting rid of them. Old rivalries won't go anywhere.

And if the Section was the conference, scheduling wouldn't be that difficult either. It would make some teams stronger, playing their section foes they usually don't before the playoffs. I remember a time when conferences were more aligned with sections (or regions), or vice versa, it made sense, but that changed to get more Lake Conference teams to state! At that time only one Lake Conference team could get to state, now three can (counting the old Classic Lake which teams were part of the old old Lake).

Whatever the origins, the current system just doesn't make much sense.

Duluth East has been an independent for a decade now. Instead of playing deadweight local class A teams, they play practically every team in 7AA, keep the local rivals they have a good history with, and load up the rest of the schedule with some excellent Metro teams. Not only does it make sense for where they're trying to get, it also makes for an awful lot of fun hockey games.

[breakout]

Yaay, I'm glad someone said this.

Conferences serve no purpose in MN HS sports, other than making scheduling a bit easier. I don't think the state will lose a thing by getting rid of them. Old rivalries won't go anywhere.

And if the Section was the conference, scheduling wouldn't be that difficult either. It would make some teams stronger, playing their section foes they usually don't before the playoffs. I remember a time when conferences were more aligned with sections (or regions), or vice versa, it made sense, but that changed to get more Lake Conference teams to state! At that time only one Lake Conference team could get to state, now three can (counting the old Classic Lake which teams were part of the old old Lake).

Whatever the origins, the current system just doesn't make much sense.

Duluth East has been an independent for a decade now. Instead of playing deadweight local class A teams, they play practically every team in 7AA, keep the local rivals they have a good history with, and load up the rest of the schedule with some excellent Metro teams. Not only does it make sense for where they're trying to get, it also makes for an awful lot of fun hockey games.

Seems like it works well for Duluth

[summer]

And if the Section was the conference, scheduling wouldn't be that difficult either. It would make some teams stronger, playing their section foes they usually don't before the playoffs. I remember a time when conferences were more aligned with sections (or regions), or vice versa, it made sense, but that changed to get more Lake Conference teams to state! At that time only one Lake Conference team could get to state, now three can (counting the old Classic Lake which teams were part of the old old Lake).

Whatever the origins, the current system just doesn't make much sense.

Duluth East has been an independent for a decade now. Instead of playing deadweight local class A teams, they play practically every team in 7AA, keep the local rivals they have a good history with, and load up the rest of the schedule with some excellent Metro teams. Not only does it make sense for where they're trying to get, it also makes for an awful lot of fun hockey games.

Seems like it works well for Duluth

But I don't think it would work for every school. Most schools are more focused on academics, it is just plain easier to be in a conference and play the teams you have always played. There are too many distractions for educators these days. I still agree there is no need for conferences that are different than sections, not that sections would need to be what they are now...

[karl(east)]

But I don't think it would work for every school. Most schools are more focused on academics, it is just plain easier to be in a conference and play the teams you have always played. There are too many distractions for educators these days. I still agree there is no need for conferences that are different than sections, not that sections would need to be what they are now...

I'm not sure that a focus on academics would have anything to do with it. The scheduling would be done by the coach and/or AD, whose roles don't have much to do with academics.

Yes, I suppose sticking with a conference is a bit easier when it comes to building a schedule, but I don't think it's caused anyone any undue stress at East; once people get used to it I suspect it isn't all that hard.

[summer]

But I don't think it would work for every school. Most schools are more focused on academics, it is just plain easier to be in a conference and play the teams you have always played. There are too many distractions for educators these days. I still agree there is no need for conferences that are different than sections, not that sections would need to be what they are now...

I'm not sure that a focus on academics would have anything to do with it. The scheduling would be done by the coach and/or AD, whose roles don't have much to do with academics.

Yes, I suppose sticking with a conference is a bit easier when it comes to building a schedule, but I don't think it's caused anyone any undue stress at East; once people get used to it I suspect it isn't all that hard.

Most coaches are teachers and have teaching as their first priority, that's all I meant.