A "fun" and unintended byproduct of doing the association analysis (see the "Best Associations" thread) is that I now have a system in place to rank all teams. To that end, I thought I might as well publish these results in this fashion (since this allows people to thump their chests over how "good" their kid's team is). To me, the more important numbers are the ones that equate how good the team is relative to what they should be. But whatever.
For all the "whiners" out there that complained "this team is a B1 or B, not a B2", I broke them down into THREE categories: B1, B, and B2. Can't really see why it matters, I guess this way everybody can somehow feel better about themselves. I only posted some of those 'B' teams as B2 because, competitively, that is exactly what they are.
The point of posting this, as with the MNHockey Rankings site, is to gauge which teams are close to one another and will give each other the best game.
1 Moorhead B Black 16-8-1 34.54
2 Duluth East B Black 10-2-0 33.43
3 East Grand Forks B Federal 16-3-1 32.37
4 Mankato B 21-6-1 30.67
5 St. Michael Albertville B 18-8-4 30.3
6 Brainerd B 13-5-3 29.97
7 Mesabi East B 10-0-0 29.8
8 Alexandria B Black 14-6-1 29.32
9 Duluth East B Red 7-10-1 29.28
10 Crow River B Black 13-7-3 29.12
11 Little Falls B 3-5-1 28.5
12 Sartell B 15-4-2 28.39
13 Crow River B Orange 18-6-1 28.35
14 Cloquet B White 13-11-0 28.35
15 East Grand Forks B Legion 17-5-0 28.19
16 Sleepy Eye B 11-4-1 27.94
17 Superior B White 8-6-0 27.9
18 Moorhead B Orange 18-7-0 27.79
19 Buffalo B 12-11-2 27.7
20 Crow River B White 10-12-0 27.55
21 Duluth Lakers B Black 16-13-2 27.48
22 Mound Westonka B 16-14-2 27.41
23 Red Lake Falls B 10-8-0 27.23
24 Hermantown B Blue 14-13-2 27.1
25 Cloquet B Purple 4-6-0 26.95
26 Worthington B 11-5-1 26.64
27 Leech Lake B 6-3-2 26.55
28 Hibbing B 7-2-1 26.22
29 Duluth Lakers B Red 17-11-3 26.16
30 Morris Benson B Blue 5-3-0 26.08
31 Faribault B 15-12-1 25.87
32 Hermantown B White 3-8-1 25.51
33 Hutchinson B 5-13-2 25.32
34 Redwood Falls B 12-7-0 25.29
35 Two Harbors B 5-3-1 25.07
36 Mason City B 7-3-3 24.56
37 Detroit Lakes B 5-10-0 24.39
38 Monticello Annandale Maple Lake B 6-25-2 24.33
39 Superior B Blue 2-7-0 24.31
40 Bemidji B Blue 8-14-1 24.12
41 Roseau B 3-15-0 23.9
42 Fairmont B 6-9-2 23.82
43 Dodge County B 7-12-1 23.73
44 Red Wing B 0-18-1 23.43
45 Proctor B 6-13-0 23.36
46 Bemidji B White 9-9-0 23.31
47 Luverne B 3-8-3 23.1
48 Thief River Falls B 6-10-1 23.05
49 Owatonna B 8-11-2 22.86
50 Fergus Falls B 6-17-0 22.65
51 Moose Lake B 0-7-0 22.37
52 Windom B 4-9-2 22.31
53 New Ulm B White 4-13-3 22.26
54 Northern Lakes B 0-8-0 22.25
55 Ashland B 2-6-0 22.1
56 New Ulm B Purple 4-15-1 22.02
57 River Lakes B 2-16-0 21.99
58 International Falls B 3-3-0 21.84
59 Silver Bay B 0-8-0 21.76
60 Crookston B 0-12-0 21.33
61 Alexandria B White 1-10-0 21.23
62 Albert Lea B 8-15-0 21.2
63 Austin B 5-14-0 20.88
64 Morris Benson B Silver 2-8-0 20.84
65 Northfield B 5-6-0 20.63
66 Virginia B 6-8-0 20.08
67 St. Peter Le Sueur B 2-14-0 18.92
68 Marshall B 2-14-0 18.61
69 Eveleth B 5-11-1 17.92
70 Greenway B 4-7-0 16.36
71 Wadena B 0-10-0 16.07
72 Ely B 1-15-0 13.75
73 Waseca B 0-14-0 12.68
The only flaw in your rankings is that if you have bad data then the rankings are flawed. As they say, "bad data in bad data out."
As an example - The Edina Pee Wee B1 White team has 2 losses that their team manager has decided not list on the team web site.
They lost on November 13th to OMG and January 18th to Wayzata.
I do not know if there are other managers that are so obsessed with their child's team looking better than they really are that would not list team losses, but I suspect they are out there.
With that that said, I really like our rankings, thank you very much for the time and effort that you have put in.
I suppose one challenge is finding all scores. One poster mentioned purposely leaving off scores from the website, but some teams don't post any scores on their team website, so you're left with their district page and perhaps a few scraps from tournaments, opponents' websites that you can match up, etc. However, it's still not complete. I think the model used here helps in that regard (dealing mathematically with "incompleteness"), but it's not optimum if you don't have complete data for all teams.
It would be interesting to see how the rankings would change for a D6 team, using this as an example of a traditionally strong disctrict, where the team may be .500 in D6, but .800 - .900 outside of D6. How might things change when adding 10 non-D6 games to the mix?
Thanks for your work on this. My son is a Bantam now, but I still keep stats for his team and records for all of his team's opponents, but this is interesting stuff. It still would be great to have some sort of momentum indicator to reward/punish end-of-season results.
1 Moorhead B Black 19-8-1 34.13
2 Duluth East B Black 11-2-0 33.31
3 East Grand Forks B Federal 25-4-1 31.15
4 St. Michael Albertville B 25-11-4 30.7
5 Mankato B 24-6-1 30.62
6 Brainerd B 16-6-3 30.05
7 Mesabi East B 12-2-1 29.83
8 Duluth East B Red 7-10-1 29.35
9 Alexandria B Black 16-6-1 29.32
10 Crow River B Black 24-9-4 29.22
11 East Grand Forks B Legion 24-5-0 28.65
12 Cloquet B White 14-15-0 28.51
13 Red Lake Falls B 17-11-0 28.41
14 Sartell B 17-5-2 28.41
15 Little Falls B 6-6-1 28.13
16 Superior B White 8-6-0 28.12
17 Crow River B Orange 24-10-1 28.11
18 Duluth Lakers B Black 19-17-3 27.95
19 Buffalo B 14-12-2 27.92
20 Sleepy Eye B 14-4-1 27.92
21 Moorhead B Orange 22-9-0 27.85
22 Crow River B White 12-14-0 27.73
23 Hermantown B Blue 18-17-3 27.32
24 Mound Westonka B 19-19-3 27.32
25 Leech Lake B 7-4-2 27.23
26 Cloquet B Purple 5-6-0 27.18
27 Worthington B 17-5-1 26.93
28 Hibbing B 9-6-1 26.72
29 Duluth Lakers B Red 17-12-3 26.3
30 Morris Benson B Blue 8-3-0 26.24
31 Hutchinson B 8-16-2 25.82
32 Faribault B 19-13-1 25.8
33 Hermantown B White 3-8-1 25.67
34 Two Harbors B 5-3-1 25.28
35 Redwood Falls B 13-9-1 25.28
36 Bemidji B Blue 9-19-3 25.15
37 Mason City B 9-3-3 24.85
38 Thief River Falls B 7-14-2 24.79
39 Monticello Annandale Maple Lake B 6-28-3 24.54
40 Roseau B 5-21-1 24.47
41 Superior B Blue 2-7-0 24.46
42 Bemidji B White 13-15-0 24.32
43 Detroit Lakes B 6-14-0 23.97
44 Dodge County B 7-15-2 23.82
45 Fairmont B 7-11-2 23.65
46 Proctor B 6-14-0 23.64
47 Owatonna B 10-13-2 23.47
48 Fergus Falls B 8-21-0 23.4
49 Luverne B 4-8-3 23.19
50 Crookston B 1-17-0 23.06
51 Moose Lake B 0-7-0 22.57
52 New Ulm B White 4-17-3 22.43
53 Alexandria B White 3-12-0 22.31
54 River Lakes B 2-20-0 22.3
55 Windom B 4-10-2 22.29
56 Ashland B 2-6-0 22.28
57 New Ulm B Purple 5-18-3 22.02
58 Silver Bay B 0-8-0 21.95
59 Northfield B 5-8-0 21.87
60 Albert Lea B 10-19-0 21.71
61 Morris Benson B Silver 2-12-0 21.21
62 Northern Lakes B 2-10-0 21.09
63 Austin B 5-20-0 20.97
64 International Falls B 3-7-0 20.78
65 Virginia B 6-8-0 20.08
66 St. Peter Le Sueur B 3-20-0 19.68
67 Marshall B 2-18-1 19.02
68 Wadena B 0-17-0 17.94
69 Eveleth B 5-12-1 17.71
70 Greenway B 4-7-0 16.35
71 Ely B 3-16-0 14.12
72 Waseca B 0-18-0 13.45
The only flaw in your rankings is that if you have bad data then the rankings are flawed. As they say, "bad data in bad data out."
As an example - The Edina Pee Wee B1 White team has 2 losses that their team manager has decided not list on the team web site.
They lost on November 13th to OMG and January 18th to Wayzata.
I do not know if there are other managers that are so obsessed with their child's team looking better than they really are that would not list team losses, but I suspect they are out there.
With that that said, I really like our rankings, thank you very much for the time and effort that you have put in.
correction: edina has never lost to omg after playing them many times, closest going into overtime at thier tourny. and the 'loss' to wazatya was a tie. they have only lost to shakopee, sauk rapids, edina white, and EP
The only flaw in your rankings is that if you have bad data then the rankings are flawed. As they say, "bad data in bad data out."
As an example - The Edina Pee Wee B1 White team has 2 losses that their team manager has decided not list on the team web site.
They lost on November 13th to OMG and January 18th to Wayzata.
I do not know if there are other managers that are so obsessed with their child's team looking better than they really are that would not list team losses, but I suspect they are out there.
With that that said, I really like our rankings, thank you very much for the time and effort that you have put in.
correction: edina has never lost to omg after playing them many times, closest going into overtime at thier tourny. and the 'loss' to wazatya was a tie. they have only lost to shakopee, sauk rapids, edina white, and EP
Pioneer is correct, Edina White has lost to OMG and Wayzata. These are some of the scrimmages they did not post on their website. Your losses are for the Green team.
observer wrote:Remember, no such thing as a scrimmage. If there's a ref, a clock, and a score it's a game.
Exactly. They are "scrimmages" by rule I beleive. We all know they are games. Youth hockey only has district play, tournament play, and playoffs that are officially games I guess. All other games are "scrimmages" in technical terms only. We all know they count. Although certain teams don't count them when losing. Whatever.....
Read something in an article once, but can't recall who said it but the Coach said he wants his team to get beat or lose at one point or another. That way you build character and get to really see what your team is made of. Also it allows you to work on things that otherwise you wouldn't really focus on. Thought it was pretty cool. Same goes for HS, its nice to have that perfect season but by not losing an entire game you don't really learn from any mistakes.
League Games
Tourney Games
Non League Games
District, Region and State playoff games
The term scrimmage should no longer be used officially. Some associations have historically used the term to describe their non league games, and even have a category on their Web sites for "scrimmages", but should stop using that term.
If there is a ref, a clock, and score is kept, it's a game. Period.
C-dad wrote:So Edina Green beat Edina White 3-0 in the State final. Must have been because of those scrimmage losses the White team failed to post on their site.
No, C-Dad. They lost because yesterday, they were not as good a team. The fact that they lost should not diminish an excellent season by a great group of kids and coaches.
Failing to post scrimmage losses, while posting scrimmage wins on your web site, is a completely unrelated issue. These postings are being done by an over zealot parent who was intent on trying to make themselves and there child’s team look better than they were. Over zealot parents are not new to hockey or exclusive to your community (or even your PWB1 team) however this is a perfect example of what is wrong with parental involvement in hockey, and a very correctable example.
No one on this ever made a derogatory remark directed at the players, nor implied that these white lies had any impact on their on ice performance. Perhaps instead of chastising the messenger, you as a parent or other parents should have stepped up and corrected this foolish behavior instead of being part of it.
Ok so now that the seasons over and the Edina PA team takes 1st, the Wayzata PA takes 4th and the top 4 teams in PB are 2 Edina and 2 Wayzata squads, where does the conversation of should these 2 associations step up and do the unthinkable of having 2 A teams?
C-dad wrote:So Edina Green beat Edina White 3-0 in the State final. Must have been because of those scrimmage losses the White team failed to post on their site.
No, C-Dad. They lost because yesterday, they were not as good a team. The fact that they lost should not diminish an excellent season by a great group of kids and coaches.
Failing to post scrimmage losses, while posting scrimmage wins on your web site, is a completely unrelated issue. These postings are being done by an over zealot parent who was intent on trying to make themselves and there child’s team look better than they were. Over zealot parents are not new to hockey or exclusive to your community (or even your PWB1 team) however this is a perfect example of what is wrong with parental involvement in hockey, and a very correctable example.
No one on this ever made a derogatory remark directed at the players, nor implied that these white lies had any impact on their on ice performance. Perhaps instead of chastising the messenger, you as a parent or other parents should have stepped up and corrected this foolish behavior instead of being part of it.
Did you notice the in my post?
I am not associated with any of these teams (other than knowing some players and parents). I just thought all the concern over whether a team has posted every scrimmage result was a bit over the top. It's 12-year-olds playing B hockey for heaven's sake, it isn't like anything really depends on the accuracy of a scrimmage result. If this is the worst result of problem parents then I think we have no problem parents.
Edit to add: puckfan, This was clearly the year Edina should have had two A teams for peewees. This 2-year cohort is the really deep and strong one, not next year. In addition to what you cited, the District 6 PWC final was Edina Green beating Edina White. There were about 200 kids in this group of 12 teams. I feel the board should have had two balanced A teams this past season, not next season.
puckfan wrote:...where does the conversation of should these 2 associations step up and do the unthinkable of having 2 A teams?
I couldn't agree more, puckfan! When 2 teams from the same association (namely Edina) are beating teams in the state tournament semi-finals by 6 goals? Face it... the talent is there for 2 solid A teams.
The Edina PWB teams met up with very little competition this season. Well, except for each other. For the betterment of the players, you'd think Edina would consider forming 2 A teams. I guess we'll see if it's about improving players' abilities or about collecting hardware.
puckfan wrote:...where does the conversation of should these 2 associations step up and do the unthinkable of having 2 A teams?
I couldn't agree more, puckfan! When 2 teams from the same association (namely Edina) are beating teams in the state tournament semi-finals by 6 goals? Face it... the talent is there for 2 solid A teams.
The Edina PWB teams met up with very little competition this season. Well, except for each other. For the betterment of the players, you'd think Edina would consider forming 2 A teams. I guess we'll see if it's about improving players' abilities or about collecting hardware.
Given that 2 years ago it was like that for the squirts, I think we know the answer already.
Wow what a program! Congrats to the cake eaters, and the yaht owners in blue and gold. I'm glad they don't play in D2. Great JOB kids, coaches, and whoever.
old goalie85 wrote:Wow what a program! Congrats to the cake eaters, and the yaht owners in blue and gold. I'm glad they don't play in D2. Great JOB kids, coaches, and whoever.
Or Yacht. LOL. Yes, Edina Green...congrats. Heck of a team. Wow. Probably could have been very competitive in "A" level....could have wong 75%+ of games maybe.
