Minnesota HS players not producing at the D1 level anymore??

[nipe 6]

Is it just me...Or does it seem like many of the players that are really hyped up playing high school hockey are just not puting up the numbers they used to? It seems like the hockey Mr. hockey winner to actually put together a decent college career and move on to a succesful pro career is Paul Martin. Not only the mr hockey winners, but along with many other players

Ya, its a completely different level and playing a year or 2 of juniors is no longer realistic anymore if your a "stud". But why do you think that is? Or am I just completely wrong with my assessment?

[HockeyMN1]

^ Blasphemy, shenanigans I tell you.

[The New One]

This subject is ridiculous. MN HS hockey players are doing great. Look at the WCHA schools in the state they are loaded with HS players who contribute significantly to their teams success.
There are HS kids playing significant roles in other D-1 leagues, and if you want to watch some great college games with MN HS players check out the smaller college games in the Metro.
Its possible that their are many extremely talented players in the state who do not receive as much notoriety as some others but when given the opportunity, they standout!

[LASERBLUE135]

I have to PARTIALLY agree with the OP. A lot of the big name guys aren't putting out jaw dropping numbers, BUT we have seen a pretty good crop of MN guys putting up good numbers...just not off the charts. I think a better statement would be that we haven't seen a big name MN HS star break out of the pack and go crazy in the college game in quite a while. Although this MIGHT be because some of our big name studs went PRO early on?!

[nipe 6]

Ya, lets not be neive. Take a look at the numbers. Also, we all know that the gophers mainly recruit the "top notch" players in Minnesota and look at how they have been doing in recent years. Heres a little research on the passed Mr. Hockey finalists:

Nick Leddy 2009 (U of M Freshman)- 3 pts
Aaron Ness 2008 (U of M Sophomore)- 9 pts this year
Ryan McDonagh 2007 (Wisconsin Juior)- 12 pts this year
David Fischer 2006 (U of M Senior)- 4 pts this year
Brian Lee 2005 (University of North Dakota)- Great 2 years at UND
Tom Gorowsky 2004(Wisconsin)- Not really a factor until his senior year
Nate Dey 2003 (St Cloud)- OK college career

And Lets throw in some of the passed hyped about players not doing so great at D1.

Patrick White- supposed to be a stud
Joey Miller- Awesome high school career not so much for the gophers
Ryan Flynn- 8 pts right now in his senior year
Tyler Johnson- 22 pts in 76 games
Jordy Christain- 3rd line
Aaron Marvin- 5 pts this year
Jon Ammerman- rarely gets playing time
Jordan Fulton- 7 pts senior year
Justin Jokinen- Bust

This list is merely just off the top of my head. I mean Minnesota Mr hockey is supposed to be the best of the best. But after Paul Martin won it in 2000 they have been like...eh so-so.

If you stop being biased and took a look at it you will notice this as well. And I'm asking why is this? Could it have something to do with not going to play Juniors for at least a year after high school? I mean this used to be a must and now we are advancing high schoolers in high school so they can play college a year earlier. Are we not as good as we think we are and maybe leaving to the Developement team, prep hockey, midgets, or juniors during high school is the way to go now?

[Slap Shot]

Last time I checked, the state has put out more than 10 players into Div I and beyond that past 10 years, but way to cherrypick the names that haven't done well and not those that have.

[tourneytickssince59]

Ya, lets not be neive. Take a look at the numbers. Also, we all know that the gophers mainly recruit the "top notch" players in Minnesota and look at how they have been doing in recent years. Heres a little research on the passed Mr. Hockey finalists:

Nick Leddy 2009 (U of M Freshman)- 3 pts
Aaron Ness 2008 (U of M Sophomore)- 9 pts this year
Ryan McDonagh 2007 (Wisconsin Juior)- 12 pts this year
David Fischer 2006 (U of M Senior)- 4 pts this year
Brian Lee 2005 (University of North Dakota)- Great 2 years at UND
Tom Gorowsky 2004(Wisconsin)- Not really a factor until his senior year
Nate Dey 2003 (St Cloud)- OK college career

And Lets throw in some of the passed hyped about players not doing so great at D1.

Patrick White- supposed to be a stud
Joey Miller- Awesome high school career not so much for the gophers
Ryan Flynn- 8 pts right now in his senior year
Tyler Johnson- 22 pts in 76 games
Jordy Christain- 3rd line
Aaron Marvin- 5 pts this year
Jon Ammerman- rarely gets playing time
Jordan Fulton- 7 pts senior year
Justin Jokinen- Bust

This list is merely just off the top of my head. I mean Minnesota Mr hockey is supposed to be the best of the best. But after Paul Martin won it in 2000 they have been like...eh so-so.

If you stop being biased and took a look at it you will notice this as well. And I'm asking why is this? Could it have something to do with not going to play Juniors for at least a year after high school? I mean this used to be a must and now we are advancing high schoolers in high school so they can play college a year earlier. Are we not as good as we think we are and maybe leaving to the Developement team, prep hockey, midgets, or juniors during high school is the way to go now?

Ever hear of this guy?
Marty Sertich - Hobey Baker winner 2005 182 career college pts. oh forgot 2001 Mr Hockey

[25 sheet power]

TJ Oshie----------------------------------GP G A PTS PIM
2005-06 U. of North Dakota NCAA 44 24 21 45 33
2006-07 U. of North Dakota NCAA 43 17 35 52 30
2007-08 U. of North Dakota NCAA 42 18 27 45 57
2008-09 St. Louis Blues NHL 57 14 25 39 30
2009-10 St. Louis Blues NHL 50 11 17 28 26

Matt Niskin
2005-06 U. of Minnesota-Duluth NCAA 38 1 13 14 40
2006-07 U. of Minnesota-Duluth NCAA 39 9 22 31 42
2007-08 Dallas Stars NHL 78 7 19 26 36
2008-09 Dallas Stars NHL 80 6 29 35 52
2009-10 Dallas Stars NHL 49 2 9 11 12

Blake Wheeler
2005-06 U. of Minnesota NCAA 39 9 14 23 41
2006-07 U. of Minnesota NCAA 44 18 20 38 42
2007-08 U. of Minnesota NCAA 44 15 20 35 72
2008-09 Boston Bruins NHL 81 21 24 45 46
2009-10 Boston Bruins NHL 51 12 17 29 32

Alex Goligoski
2004-05 U. of Minnesota NCAA 32 5 15 20 44
2005-06 U. of Minnesota NCAA 41 11 28 39 63
2006-07 U. of Minnesota NCAA 44 9 30 39 51
2007-08 Wilkes-Barre/Scranton AHL 70 10 28 38 53
2007-08 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 3 0 2 2 2
2008-09 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 45 6 14 20 16
2008-09 Wilkes-Barre/Scranton AHL 26 2 16 18 16
2009-10 Pittsburgh Penguins NHL 43 6 17 23 18

Maybe the wrong guy is winning MR Hockey

[nungitchida]

why are you people going by points , alot you named are defensemen alot rack up alot of playing time on the penalty kill, look up there plus minus ratio there playing time and games played, in my book there are no disappointments in D1, there doing something they love and getting a good education , and we are writing on a high school hockey board. enough said.

[25 sheet power]

I don't think that was enough? I have no clue what you just said?

[nipe 6]

Last time I checked, the state has put out more than 10 players into Div I and beyond that past 10 years, but way to cherrypick the names that haven't done well and not those that have.

Pretty sure I said those were names off the top of my head. Am I not correct? How about my list of Mr. Hockey winners as well.

[nipe 6]

And how is Marty Sertich's NHL career looking? Exactly. It just seems like in the 90's Mr. Hockey winners were not so much hit and miss at the D 1 level and they all produced, and went on to pretty good NHL career. And the WCHA has dropped (specifically the gophers) recently and these teams recruit hard in Minnesota.

And the list of the 5 good players in the last 5-6 years...I'm not saying none or succeeding, but it seems like the numbers have dropped off a lot for the number of players succeeding.

[ALSECORD]

It's simple. It's because there is alot more taltented kids nationwide than there ever use to be. The better MN players are starting to realize that If they want to get to the next level and do something other than be a role player or just fit in, 22 games against average to below average competion in most games isn't going to get you there.
The kids who opt for The Olympic Develpment program, Shattuck, OHL/WHL are doing much better than those who have taken the MN high school hockey route. The problem is the MN hockey fan still thinks no one else but us knows how to play the game. That's not the case anymore ( look no further than Goldies boys)(Pathetic by the way)! and i grew up ln MN being very proud of Mn high school hockey. So many of the Gopher players are so over rated.
So i for one give Mr Nipe credit for bringing the subject up because Minnesota hockey fans think they invented the game and just because you grew up playing MN high school hockey that gives you a free pass to The hobey Baker and The Stanley Cup. I'm here to tell you things are changing.
In my opinion this is only a sign of things to come. In 10 -15 years MN high School hockey won't be at all the same as we have grown up with.

[Goldfishdude]

Speaking on this thread.... Do we know what has happened to Roseville's Michael Doer, Dorr or however you spell it... he was a stud in the SEC vs Jake Hansen, and went to the Gophs, but left the team last year, and was transferring???

[theoneandonly1]

Speaking on this thread.... Do we know what has happened to Roseville's Michael Doer, Dorr or however you spell it... he was a stud in the SEC vs Jake Hansen, and went to the Gophs, but left the team last year, and was transferring???

He is at Mankato State. He has 6 points, 3 goals, in 9 games.

[east hockey]

Speaking on this thread.... Do we know what has happened to Roseville's Michael Doer, Dorr or however you spell it... he was a stud in the SEC vs Jake Hansen, and went to the Gophs, but left the team last year, and was transferring???

Initially he was committed to UMD, and bailed. Then he went to the Gophers, and later bailed. He's with Minnesota-Mankato now.

Lee

[O-townClown]

One of the reasons the Mr. Hockey sample is skewed is because of age. (Another that was mentioned is that some of these guys are defensemen.)

Bemidji State went to the Final Four last year with several players that turned 23 and 24 during the college season. Every now and then you can find a 25 year old college player.

Mr. Hockey is 18 years old and turns 19 in his freshman year. (These players aren't going the Junior-start-college-at-20 route.) It isn't like the days of Tim Harrer, Aaron Broten, and Pat Micheletti when a guy can tear up the WCHA at 18. To play and get by at that level at 18 means you are an exceptional player.

[rookie]

Ryan flynn is out with a knee injury and has missed almost all of the season i believe

[sorno82]

This is not a black and white issue. When Paul Martin wins it, he is the best player in his age group bar none. Who won it when Jorden Schroeder was at the U of M and Kristo was in the USHL (Leddy). Some years, the best player of the age group plays high school, some year they are playing elsewhere. I am sure Parise may have had a shot if he played at Jefferson instead of Shattuck.

If the best player of the age group is in high school, he will probably be Mr. Hockey and a good NHLer. If thebest player is playing USHL, WHL, college, or NTDP, then the 3rd or 4th best player may win it and they may not be star caliber.

[Slap Shot]

Last time I checked, the state has put out more than 10 players into Div I and beyond that past 10 years, but way to cherrypick the names that haven't done well and not those that have.

Pretty sure I said those were names off the top of my head. Am I not correct? How about my list of Mr. Hockey winners as well.

Who gives a rip? There are plenty of MN kids producing right now in Div I and the NHL so I'm not worried if a few here and there don't. Mr. Hockey isn't an award for, "Most promsing Div I and NHL prospect" it's an award for the perceived best senior in the state that year. That some don't go on to bigger and better things might have more to do with the voting than MN hockey in total. How many Heisman trophy winners never do squat in the NFL? Does that mean the NCAA isn't putting out quality players?

[nipe 6]

Ya, but i'm comparing the mr hockey of the 2000's vs previous winners. Saying theres a difference.

[behonestbenice]

It is always an interesting subject and lots of scenarios. It will be interesting to watch the next to 4 years to see if any more validation can be put to the arguement or not with past MN High school guys that have played in the USHL,NDTP or Shattuck or are there now.
Player; leave early;exceleration;USHL; college performance
Kristo 2yrs NDTP; no exceleration; 1 yr USHL; outstanding at ND
Ness no ; yes; no; solid
Schroeder yes ; yes ; no; outstadning 2yrs
Stepan Shattuck ; no; no; outstanding at WI
Gaardinar no; no; no ; very solid 2 years WI

So as you can see 5 of the top MN players in the past 2 years have all taken totally different routes to D1 hockey`to 3 of the top teams in the country.

It will be interesting also as there are several other talented products of MN high school hockey currently in the USHL who are doing outstanding before moving on to college;
Currently there are 4 palyers in the top 7 in scoring in the USHL and leaders on thier teams; Also will put another Mr. Hockey candidate currently in USHL before going to college who was a stud in high school and anothe who left HS early.Also one who left early NDTP.

Player ; leave HS early; Mr.Hockey Candidate; yrs USHL
A. Lee no yes 1 so far
JT Brown no yes 2 so far
T Barnes no yes 2
R. Walters after soph yr N/A b4&after and 2yr

D.Mattson no yes 1 so far
M. Fink after soph yr N/A 3 so far
N. Matson NDTP N/A 1 so far

So who knows but it will continue to interesting who finishes where in thier college careers based upon 12 different very talented players that came form MN hockey. Lots of different routes based.
The only thing that I see that stands out is all but two played or are playing against higher competition and more wearing schedules menatlly and physically at some point leaving early or after HS in the USHL,NDTP or at the hockey factory Shattuck.

The other is the first group have all been drafted and only one player from the second group has with N. Mattson probably being drafted this year.

It will be fun to sit back and watch all of these young men represent MN as thier careers advance.

Also if you ever have a chance go to some NDTP, USHL or Shattuck games or just check out thier rosters yo will see it truly is becoming more tha a midwest and northeast game for talent as it was in the past.

Let's Play Hockey!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its the best sport of all time!!!!!!!!

PS anyone ever hear of Dan Sexton until late. Look at what he did since leaving AV. Got the opportunity and is taking full advantage with the Ducks.

My Conclusion: Many different routes, personal choice better just work hard, excel and develop at every level no matter what the choice.

[MNHockeyFan]

Great research and very interesting! Makes a clear case that there is not any one path that you need to take in order to achieve success.

[newsguy35]

[quote="O-townClown"]One of the reasons the Mr. Hockey sample is skewed is because of age. (Another that was mentioned is that some of these guys are defensemen.)

Bemidji State went to the Final Four last year with several players that turned 23 and 24 during the college season. Every now and then you can find a 25 year old college player.

Mr. Hockey is 18 years old and turns 19 in his freshman year. (These players aren't going the Junior-start-college-at-20 route.) It isn't like the days of Tim Harrer, Aaron Broten, and Pat Micheletti when a guy can tear up the WCHA at 18. To play and get by at that level at 18 means you are an exceptional player.[/quote]

I believe nobody has used the name "KASTO"!!! You brought up the "highly touted" players who went to the U but missed out on quite a few top end players from smaller schools (UND is not one but others) that are contributing... Sexton (Apple Valley) had a great college career for Bowling green, Festler looks good, Kasto is unreal up at UND and those are just a few. Yes, Jr's is the way to go for most but like I wrote in another page somewhere... "Do you think Ness would have gone to Jr's to play for the U if UND was offering him a scholarship out of hs?" Alot of it has to do with the rush from HS to college instead of mentally being ready for the game. Alot of ego hurts kids, I saw first hand for a certain Eastview grad who got drafted by Buffalo and went to UND and doesnt play much....

[BodyShots]

One of the reasons the Mr. Hockey sample is skewed is because of age. (Another that was mentioned is that some of these guys are defensemen.)

Bemidji State went to the Final Four last year with several players that turned 23 and 24 during the college season. Every now and then you can find a 25 year old college player.

Mr. Hockey is 18 years old and turns 19 in his freshman year. (These players aren't going the Junior-start-college-at-20 route.) It isn't like the days of Tim Harrer, Aaron Broten, and Pat Micheletti when a guy can tear up the WCHA at 18. To play and get by at that level at 18 means you are an exceptional player.

I believe nobody has used the name "KASTO"!!! You brought up the "highly touted" players who went to the U but missed out on quite a few top end players from smaller schools (UND is not one but others) that are contributing... Sexton (Apple Valley) had a great college career for Bowling green, Festler looks good, Kasto is unreal up at UND and those are just a few. Yes, Jr's is the way to go for most but like I wrote in another page somewhere... "Do you think Ness would have gone to Jr's to play for the U if UND was offering him a scholarship out of hs?" Alot of it has to do with the rush from HS to college instead of mentally being ready for the game. Alot of ego hurts kids, I saw first hand for a certain Eastview grad who got drafted by Buffalo and went to UND and doesnt play much....

Who is KASTO? Do you mean Kristo!