Ref Consistency

[hero12]

I know a lot of people will scoff at this thread, but in the past 4 years, I have noticed quite a difference between the refs in southwest mn and the rest of the state. For those of you who aren't familiar with swmn hockey I'll do my best to explain. With refs like Ethan Anderson, it is not uncommon for games to have upwards of 20-30 penalties. The thing is, these aren't chippy penalties, they are roughing, charging, boarding, and elbowing calls that would be considered normal hits in any other part of the state. There is no such thing as finishing a check, I have been told during captain meetings that two hands must be on the stick and the stick must be on the ice otherwise its a penalty, and if both players fall down after a hit, one of the two are headed to the box. Now many of you may think I'm just some kid who has grievances about a recent game or am exaggerating, but I have been out of high school for several years and am just pointing out something I have noticed.

I guess my question is if anybody else feels more consistent reffing could help the southwest start to improve their hockey. I don't think anybody can disagree with me when the only team from the southwest was blown out in their first game. SWMN is on a completely lower level of hockey, anything could help.

[ref101]

I know a lot of people will scoff at this thread, but in the past 4 years, I have noticed quite a difference between the refs in southwest mn and the rest of the state. For those of you who aren't familiar with swmn hockey I'll do my best to explain. With refs like Ethan Anderson, it is not uncommon for games to have upwards of 20-30 penalties. The thing is, these aren't chippy penalties, they are roughing, charging, boarding, and elbowing calls that would be considered normal hits in any other part of the state. There is no such thing as finishing a check, I have been told during captain meetings that two hands must be on the stick and the stick must be on the ice otherwise its a penalty, and if both players fall down after a hit, one of the two are headed to the box. Now many of you may think I'm just some kid who has grievances about a recent game or am exaggerating, but I have been out of high school for several years and am just pointing out something I have noticed.

I guess my question is if anybody else feels more consistent reffing could help the southwest start to improve their hockey. I don't think anybody can disagree with me when the only team from the southwest was blown out in their first game. SWMN is on a completely lower level of hockey, anything could help.

Quite the opposite in the Minnetonka/Hill game - 7 periods no penalties.... Northern crew working the game. Were there penalties to be called - yep, did they get called - nope, did the players police themselves - yep, were the coaches upset - nope, did it change the outcome - probably not, was it a good game - GREAT game...

[bulldog14411]

I know a lot of people will scoff at this thread, but in the past 4 years, I have noticed quite a difference between the refs in southwest mn and the rest of the state. For those of you who aren't familiar with swmn hockey I'll do my best to explain. With refs like Ethan Anderson, it is not uncommon for games to have upwards of 20-30 penalties. The thing is, these aren't chippy penalties, they are roughing, charging, boarding, and elbowing calls that would be considered normal hits in any other part of the state. There is no such thing as finishing a check, I have been told during captain meetings that two hands must be on the stick and the stick must be on the ice otherwise its a penalty, and if both players fall down after a hit, one of the two are headed to the box. Now many of you may think I'm just some kid who has grievances about a recent game or am exaggerating, but I have been out of high school for several years and am just pointing out something I have noticed.

I guess my question is if anybody else feels more consistent reffing could help the southwest start to improve their hockey. I don't think anybody can disagree with me when the only team from the southwest was blown out in their first game. SWMN is on a completely lower level of hockey, anything could help.

Played youth hockey for a time and had a tournament in SWMN. Inconsistency is definitely very common not just at the high school level. The game is not at the same level as it is in the rest of the state and because of that the refs are not at the same level either. Hopefully both will be able to pick up and become more popular but I do not believe this is a new problem.

[Zamman]

You cannot criticize refs, unless you strap them on and grab a whistle. Otherwise, our opinion does not matter.

That is what I have heard from other refs.

[starmvp]

You cannot criticize refs, unless you strap them on and grab a whistle. Otherwise, our opinion does not matter.

That is what I have heard from other refs.

Exactly, put yourself in their shoes "skates"

[NippenTopChed08]

As a current Ref, and now former High School Player from the region of SW MN I can vouch for the inconsitency. We are a more "northern" southern team and often have the officials come to our home ice from the Suburban Officials Association..They do a great job calling the game both ways and consistent. Obviously there will be erred calls due to human nature, but for the most part consistent. What I personally saw when we traveled south for our games down there, the referees did a mediocre job at best. They often say one call is a hooking, and then the same thing happens (to either team) and they do not make consistent calls. They also do not seem to watch the game as closely. Watching the NP vs Lourdes section semifinal is a great example. A waved off goal, due to referees being out of position and having to rely on what the goal judge saw. Now watching video replay of this, it is still inconclusive but many would lean towards a goal call rather than no goal. Also one point in the game, one team had 6 people on the ice for well over 8 seconds and no referee or linesman seemed to notice, let alone care.

We also traveled north for a tourney this year. We saw refereeing that was much more consistent. One call made early, that was a hook, was the standard for the rest of the hooking calls....or boarding or whatever the penalty to be.

Being a Ref/Ex Player/ Spectator/ Growing up in a family of refs (With one being a higher level ref) gives me a pretty good grasp on the rules of the game, and how officials should preform their jobs.

I am not saying ALL southern refs are bad, but I think that some, if not most, could work on the consistency of their calls.

But, I do give them credit for lacing up the skates and calling the game to the best of their ability. Been there, done that, bottom line is the first call or none call for that matter, sets the tone of the game, and how it should be called.

[ref101]

As a current Ref, and now former High School Player from the region of SW MN I can vouch for the inconsitency. We are a more "northern" southern team and often have the officials come to our home ice from the Suburban Officials Association..They do a great job calling the game both ways and consistent. Obviously there will be erred calls due to human nature, but for the most part consistent. What I personally saw when we traveled south for our games down there, the referees did a mediocre job at best. They often say one call is a hooking, and then the same thing happens (to either team) and they do not make consistent calls. They also do not seem to watch the game as closely. Watching the NP vs Lourdes section semifinal is a great example. A waved off goal, due to referees being out of position and having to rely on what the goal judge saw. Now watching video replay of this, it is still inconclusive but many would lean towards a goal call rather than no goal. Also one point in the game, one team had 6 people on the ice for well over 8 seconds and no referee or linesman seemed to notice, let alone care.

We also traveled north for a tourney this year. We saw refereeing that was much more consistent. One call made early, that was a hook, was the standard for the rest of the hooking calls....or boarding or whatever the penalty to be.

Being a Ref/Ex Player/ Spectator/ Growing up in a family of refs (With one being a higher level ref) gives me a pretty good grasp on the rules of the game, and how officials should preform their jobs.

I am not saying ALL southern refs are bad, but I think that some, if not most, could work on the consistency of their calls.

But, I do give them credit for lacing up the skates and calling the game to the best of their ability. Been there, done that, bottom line is the first call or none call for that matter, sets the tone of the game, and how it should be called.

Probably has to do more with the newness of hockey in the area. Lot more schools showing up on the hockey map in the last 5 years or so... "New" officials are showing up as a result of the coverage needed. Without a mature referee organization in the area, you will get an inconsistent outcome.

[The51]

You cannot criticize refs, unless you strap them on and grab a whistle. Otherwise, our opinion does not matter.

That is what I have heard from other refs.

maybe not but if they are calling penalties like he is describing here, they aren't doing a very good job

[h-m fan]

I was talking to an ex-ref at the 3rd place game at state and we were talking about the night before when hill and tonka went 7 periods without a penalty. He said that that kind of officiating is admirable because both teams got away with an equal number of calls and the refs just swallowed their whistles. However he also said that it would have impressed him the same if not more had the refs called a good amount of penalties that were consistant throughout the game. I guess I personally liked not having any pp and pk units out on the ice for most of the game, but I guess what I'm trying to say is you can not fault a ref for saying if this that or another thing happens it is a penalty. That is consistant. I dont know if it is hurting SW MN hockey, but I don't think the refs are completely at fault unless the mshsl steps in and tells them otherwise.

[hockeyfan893]

I thought that Hill vs Tonka game was the best officiated game of the tournament.

No penalties, let the teams play. No coaches / players got upset or got chippy. They just played a pure game of hockey. In addition to the no penalties, it should also be noted that they did a great job with all the other "minor" calls; offsides, icing, as well as the ref that signaled no goal right way on the 'kick in', all the refs seemed 'in the zone' so to speak to me.

[NippenTopChed08]

a thought just came to my mind...

Do you think that since the teams, tonka and hill, were that good of teams that it makes it easier for the officials to swallow their whistle? IMO yes it does...but what are your thoughts?

I think taking this into consideration could be why Southern MN has a problem with consistency..Not saying that all southern teams are bad (the rest of the state has their fair share) but in the south there are more teams and programs that are being developed...see what im getting at?

so i can see where both the teams can be blamed for inconsitency (this post) and where the refs can be blamed (last post)

thoughts?

[h-m fan]

a thought just came to my mind...

Do you think that since the teams, tonka and hill, were that good of teams that it makes it easier for the officials to swallow their whistle? IMO yes it does...but what are your thoughts?

I think taking this into consideration could be why Southern MN has a problem with consistency..Not saying that all southern teams are bad (the rest of the state has their fair share) but in the south there are more teams and programs that are being developed...see what im getting at?

so i can see where both the teams can be blamed for inconsitency (this post) and where the refs can be blamed (last post)

thoughts?

Another thing that needs to be considered (to be honest I don't know much about the programs in SW MN so I may be way off here) is that some kids are "goons" and go out on the ice to hack and take cheap shots all game. If this is the case during the game, a ref NEEDS to make MANY calls to keep from losing control of the game. The refs in the Tonka/Hill game had the luxury of officiating two teams that were at the rink to play the game of hockey for the chance to go to the state championship. The chances of that game getting out of hand is about zero, which cannot be said about many regular season lopsided games.