goal directed in by skate

[Mitch Hawker]

What is the high school rule?

Is it the same as higher levels (in that unless there is a distinct kicking motion the goal should stand)?

There was a goal disallowed in the tournament that seemed to me would have been good by that criteria.

Can't recall for sure, but I think the non-goal was against HM or Breck.

[BarTender3035]

I thought it was a good goal too.

[blueblood]

Tonka scored a goal against Hill when when of their players "turned" his skate and the puck went off the skate into the net.

From the video replay it appeared it was directed in by the player.

[WBLHockeyfan04]

That is correct. It occured in the 1st OT that would have given Minnetonka the victory. Maybe they would have had fresher legs against Edina if the goal would have stood? I guess we'll never know.

[ref101]

What is the high school rule?

Is it the same as higher levels (in that unless there is a distinct kicking motion the goal should stand)?

There was a goal disallowed in the tournament that seemed to me would have been good by that criteria.

Can't recall for sure, but I think the non-goal was against HM or Breck.

ART. 3 . . . A goal shall NOT be allowed if:
a. the puck is kicked, thrown, carried or otherwise deliberately directed into the goal by any means other than by a stick, or propelled illegally with the stick, even if the puck bounds or deflects off the person or equipment of any defensive player into the net;
b. the puck hits an official and goes directly into the net;
c. the puck is between the goalkeeper’s pads or lodged in his equipment and is carried over the goal line by an opponent pushing the goal keeper into the cage. (But, if it is so carried over by a teammate pushing the goalkeeper, or if the goalkeeper himself propels it over the goal line, the goal is allowed);
d. the attacking team commits a foul which assists in the making of a goal;
e. the attacking team has too many players on the rink at the time the goal is made;
f. the goal is contributed to by anyone other than an actual player;
g. any member of the attacking team (other than the player in possession of the puck) is in, skating through or has his stick in the goal crease when the goal is made from outside the crease, unless the goalkeeper is outside the crease when the play is made (in which case, the goal is allowed) or the attacking player has been pushed into the crease by a defensive player (in which case the goal is allowed);
h. a goal is made after a referee or timekeeper has signaled play to stop; or i. the goal is made by a member of a team which has an illegal player on the ice (e.g., a penalized player returns to the ice from the penalty bench before his penalty has expired by his own error or the error of the penalty timekeeper).

[pioneers]

In High School it does not need to be a kicking motion. Just a intentional redirect. In the Minnetonka vs H-M situation, the player turned his skate and intentioanally redirected the puck. Therefore no goal.

[ilbok]

g. any member of the attacking team (other than the player in possession of the puck) is in, skating through or has his stick in the goal crease when the goal is made from outside the crease, unless the goalkeeper is outside the crease when the play is made (in which case, the goal is allowed) or the attacking player has been pushed into the crease by a defensive player (in which case the goal is allowed)

This must not have been the wording in 2009, when during the first quarterfinal game an opposing player skated into the crease blocking the goaltender's path to the open part of the net. Then an overtime game-winning shot was taken from just outside the crease and reviewed for over seven minutes. Do they not have copies of the rules at MSHSL state tournaments?

[ilbok]

ART. 3 . . . A goal shall NOT be allowed if:
a. the puck is kicked, thrown, carried or otherwise deliberately directed into the goal by any means other than by a stick, or propelled illegally with the stick

This must not have been the wording in 2002, when during the state final game an opposing player clearly knocked the puck in the net from over the crossbar. Then the momentum-changing goal was allowed to stand even after photographic review. Do they not have copies of the rules at MSHSL state tournaments?

[inthestands]

directed = no goal

deflected = goal

Easiest way to determine.

[ref101]

g. any member of the attacking team (other than the player in possession of the puck) is in, skating through or has his stick in the goal crease when the goal is made from outside the crease, unless the goalkeeper is outside the crease when the play is made (in which case, the goal is allowed) or the attacking player has been pushed into the crease by a defensive player (in which case the goal is allowed)

This must not have been the wording in 2009, when during the first quarterfinal game an opposing player skated into the crease blocking the goaltender's path to the open part of the net. Then an overtime game-winning shot was taken from just outside the crease and reviewed for over seven minutes. Do they not have copies of the rules at MSHSL state tournaments?

This wasn't the intention of my previous post, but since you asked....

Minnesota Goal Crease Rule

The NFHS Ice Hockey Rules Committee has approved for use in all games played in Minnesota an experimental rule relating to goals scored when a player is illegally in the goal crease. This rule will count those goals which are scored when an offensive player or player's stick is illegally in the goal crease but, in the opinion of the referee, the player or stick illegally in the goal crease had no impact on the goalkeeper's ability to defend the goal when the puck entered the goal.

A player illegally in the goal crease impacts the goalkeeper's ability to defend the goal when:

1. The player makes physical contact with the goalkeeper; or

2. The player prevents the goalkeeper from moving freely in the goal crease; or

3. The player screens the goalkeeper or otherwise interferes with the goalkeeper's ability to defend the goal, even though no physical contact is made with the goalkeeper.

A goal may not be scored by a shot, deflection off, or tip-in by a player who is initially illegally in the goal crease.

This rule does not allow players to position themselves in the goal crease, skate through the goal crease, or otherwise interfere with the goalkeeper in the goal crease. In those situations, the referee should still blow the whistle to stop play and conduct a neutral zone face-off. This rule is NOT the same as similar NHL and NCAA rules, which do permit offensive players to position themselves in the goal crease.

This rule only addresses situations where a player is illegally in the goal crease. It is important to remember that the following are all situations where a player may legally be in the goal crease:
1. The puck is in the goal crease;
2. The goalkeeper is out of the goal crease;
3. The offensive team does not have possession of the puck; or
4. A defensive player has pushed the offensive player into the goal crease and the offensive player has not had sufficient time or ability to get out of the goal crease.

[ilbok]

Thank you, ref101.

Where were you in 2002 and 2009?

We need to get you email access to the replay booth.

[Gov78]

directed = no goal

deflected = goal

Easiest way to determine.

Ah but was the player directing the puck into the goal or attempting to direct it into his posession? I could make the argument that he was trying to control a pass with his skate and inadvertently directed it toward the net.

[inthestands]

directed = no goal

deflected = goal

Easiest way to determine.

Ah but was the player directing the puck into the goal or attempting to direct it into his posession? I could make the argument that he was trying to control a pass with his skate and inadvertently directed it toward the net.

Same answer.
Directed = no goal
As always up to the discretion of the official at the time.

[halla]

directed = no goal

deflected = goal

Easiest way to determine.

Ah but was the player directing the puck into the goal or attempting to direct it into his posession? I could make the argument that he was trying to control a pass with his skate and inadvertently directed it toward the net.

Same answer.
Directed = no goal
As always up to the discretion of the official at the time.

I agree with inthestands. The wording is subject to a degree of interpretation, so it kinda depends on the official. In my opinion (and I'd actually like to see a revised wording of the rule to make this explicit), a goal should not be allowed anytime a player deliberately plays a puck with anything other than the stick. Shouldn't matter (cuz how can you really tell?) whether or not he is actually trying to direct the puck into the net.

The Tonka player deliberately tried to play the puck with his skate. Probably he was not trying to direct the puck into the net with his skate. But it would just be better to say that is always no goal end-of-story rather than give officials the job of saying whether or not he tried to put it on net.

We would need a lie detector test in addition to instant replay. ("I swear I didn't deliberately try to put it in!")