Mike Fink - Poster Boy For Questionable Early Departure?

[nopuckluck]

Mike Fink, the Hopkins power forward who left high school hockey after his sophomore year for Juniors and verbally committed to the University of North Dakota ... has since been de-committed by UND ... and recently committed to Bowling Green.

[breakout]

Mike Fink, the Hopkins power forward who left high school hockey after his sophomore year for Juniors and verbally committed to the University of North Dakota ... has since been de-committed by UND ... and recently committed to Bowling Green.

Michael Fink was a very good youth hockey player and seemed poised to be a very good high school hockey player. Hopkins High School would have been a scary team with him on it through his senior year. Due to injuries, Michael and his family might agree that he should have stuck around his hometown school.

I know there have been plenty of discussion about player development and leaving early from high school to play Jr. Players and families should think long and hard about moving on to junior. Coaches are paid to win and it's all business.

[LASERBLUE135]

I think that the kid was chasing his dream. He thought that this would be the best way to do that. Will he regret it for a LONG time? Maybe/maybe not, but we all live and learn. Can't put any blame in the situation really.

I played with a kid back in the day, Tim Branham, his parents shipped him all over the place to play elites/juniors etc. Never went to a "normal" high school. Ended up being drafted by Vancouver in the 2nd/3rd round. He was a bust. It didn't work out and he never made it to the NHL, but because he was in the "system" for years and years he got his name out there to people he would never had otherwise. Probably the sole reason he was drafted at all. His biggest mistake was he didn't go to college. At least this kid is getting an education and a scholarship.

[mulefarm]

Fink was not a power forward. Very skilled player with a knack for scoring. Had about 50 pts his soph year. Seemed to get lost at the next level. Maybe didn't have the grit needed to score at the higher levels. Thought he would be a very good college player, but time will tell?

[nickel slots]

How about Ryan Walters? He's in his third full season in the USHL. Granted, he's committed to the Gophers, BUT, if he plays in the USHL again next year, did he really gain anything? Was it worth being away from home and missing out on the high school experience?

I know it's a hard decision for these families to make, but my opinion is that unless you are a first or second round NHL draft pick type of player, leaving home early might not be the best option all the time.

Can anybody come up with some names of kids that AREN'T first or second round NHL draft picks (or potentially) that left home early and it paid off for them? Let's leave NTDP departures off this list as those kids are playing for country and spending their time with kids their own age - and almost all of us would encourage our kids to do it. And a lot of them are first or second round picks.

Maybe we should ask the same question in the "Early Departure" thread?

[flatontheice]

How about Ryan Walters? He's in his third full season in the USHL. Granted, he's committed to the Gophers, BUT, if he plays in the USHL again next year, did he really gain anything? Was it worth being away from home and missing out on the high school experience?

I know it's a hard decision for these families to make, but my opinion is that unless you are a first or second round NHL draft pick type of player, leaving home early might not be the best option all the time.

Can anybody come up with some names of kids that AREN'T first or second round NHL draft picks (or potentially) that left home early and it paid off for them? Let's leave NTDP departures off this list as those kids are playing for country and spending their time with kids their own age - and almost all of us would encourage our kids to do it. And a lot of them are first or second round picks.

Maybe we should ask the same question in the "Early Departure" thread?

How about Kristo, Raboin, Parenteau?

[Gopher Blog]

Watching Fink back in HS, I always thought he was a kid that needed to move on. He seemed to float a lot and I thought being forced to play an all around game in the USHL against better players would help him in the long run. Certainly we can debate things in hindsight... but I can't say I blame him for making a move he felt would be beneficial to his future.

Ultimately, he has a scholarship to a quality hockey program so it's not like he flamed out and did nothing after leaving. Just because he didn't necessarily pan out as well as the UND coaches thought he might doesn't mean he is a failure.

[davey]

How about Ryan Walters? He's in his third full season in the USHL. Granted, he's committed to the Gophers, BUT, if he plays in the USHL again next year, did he really gain anything? Was it worth being away from home and missing out on the high school experience?

I know it's a hard decision for these families to make, but my opinion is that unless you are a first or second round NHL draft pick type of player, leaving home early might not be the best option all the time.

Can anybody come up with some names of kids that AREN'T first or second round NHL draft picks (or potentially) that left home early and it paid off for them? Let's leave NTDP departures off this list as those kids are playing for country and spending their time with kids their own age - and almost all of us would encourage our kids to do it. And a lot of them are first or second round picks.

Maybe we should ask the same question in the "Early Departure" thread?

This topic gets beat to death every year. My guess is Ryan Walters is a much better hockey player now than he would have been staying at STA. Each situation is different. How many of us know kids will be 1st or 2nd round pick before being faced with this decision.l I bet Nate Schmidt is much better prepared to go to the Gophers both on and off the ice next year after playing in Fargo. The grind they go through in Jrs. prepares them for the challenges they will face in college in both these areas. Now does it work out for every kid...absolutely not, much the same way not every first round pick is successful in the NHL or for that matter any pro sport. These tough decisons are being made by teenaged kids, give them a break, hell I wish every decision I made worked out as intended.

[nickel slots]

Watching Fink back in HS, I always thought he was a kid that needed to move on. He seemed to float a lot and I thought being forced to play an all around game in the USHL against better players would help him in the long run. Certainly we can debate things in hindsight... but I can't say I blame him for making a move he felt would be beneficial to his future.

Ultimately, he has a scholarship to a quality hockey program so it's not like he flamed out and did nothing after leaving. Just because he didn't necessarily pan out as well as the UND coaches thought he might doesn't mean he is a failure.

GB - An opportunity to play DI hockey ANYWHERE certainly doesn't qualify as a failure. And I'm not saying that Ryan Walters, Mike Fink, or anybody that leaves home early is a failure AT ALL... I'm only asking if it was really worth it to leave home. I could certainly see Ryan Walters playing his first year in the USHL next year and still contributing to the Gophers the year after. Same with Mike Fink & Bowling Green.

foti - Kristo went to the NTDP, so I would like to exclude him from this conversation.

I don't think Raboin left early, did he? He's a little ahead of my time, but according to hockeydb.com, he's a March '85 birthday (which would be an '03 grad), and his first year in the USHL was '03-04, so I don't know if he even left home early?

Same with Parenteau... I believe he graduated with his class at Chisago Lakes, then went to Alaska to play junior hockey. Am I mistaken?
http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/20 ... 203698.txt

[nickel slots]

How about Ryan Walters? He's in his third full season in the USHL. Granted, he's committed to the Gophers, BUT, if he plays in the USHL again next year, did he really gain anything? Was it worth being away from home and missing out on the high school experience?

I know it's a hard decision for these families to make, but my opinion is that unless you are a first or second round NHL draft pick type of player, leaving home early might not be the best option all the time.

Can anybody come up with some names of kids that AREN'T first or second round NHL draft picks (or potentially) that left home early and it paid off for them? Let's leave NTDP departures off this list as those kids are playing for country and spending their time with kids their own age - and almost all of us would encourage our kids to do it. And a lot of them are first or second round picks.

Maybe we should ask the same question in the "Early Departure" thread?

This topic gets beat to death every year. My guess is Ryan Walters is a much better hockey player now than he would have been staying at STA. Each situation is different. How many of us know kids will be 1st or 2nd round pick before being faced with this decision.l I bet Nate Schmidt is much better prepared to go to the Gophers both on and off the ice next year after playing in Fargo. The grind they go through in Jrs. prepares them for the challenges they will face in college in both these areas. Now does it work out for every kid...absolutely not, much the same way not every first round pick is successful in the NHL or for that matter any pro sport. These tough decisons are being made by teenaged kids, give them a break, hell I wish every decision I made worked out as intended.

Your guess is the same as mine, davey. I'm sure he's a better hockey player now than he would have been had he stayed at STA. The point I'm offering for consideration isn't that at all, it's this: how much did it affect their development and was it worth the trade off of not having a "normal" high school experience? If Walters had stayed in high school, would he still have to play a year in the USHL? Of course. He's played 3 already and it looks like he may have to play one more. Would he be better one way or the other? Who knows? It's impossible to answer that question. Would Schmidt have been better off in the long run had he stayed home his senior year, or will the USHL pay off? Don't know... how would we ever know? All I do know is that there is proof that staying home can work. Just look at the MN kids in last year's NHL draft - Leddy, Hanowski, Budish, Delisle, Hesketh, Oliver, Lee, Tardy - all these kids finished their high school careers and graduated with their respective classes. Schroeder went NTDP, Lee & Birkholz went to Fargo USHL.

I'm only saying that the trend lately is to hurry up and ship the kids off before their time - and I'm just not convinced that they can't get to the same destination while also graduating with their buddies. If a kid's got it, he's got it.

[puckhouse27]

Casey I believe left breck after his sophmore year played at greenbay his junior year then decided to come back to minnesota his senior year to his hometown of whitebear lake had to sit out half the year for the transfer rule after highschool played a little bit at st johns decided he still had a shot at d1 went back to the ushl for sioux falls then went onto st lawerence

[mngopherfan]

How about Ryan Walters? He's in his third full season in the USHL. Granted, he's committed to the Gophers, BUT, if he plays in the USHL again next year, did he really gain anything? Was it worth being away from home and missing out on the high school experience?

I know it's a hard decision for these families to make, but my opinion is that unless you are a first or second round NHL draft pick type of player, leaving home early might not be the best option all the time.

Can anybody come up with some names of kids that AREN'T first or second round NHL draft picks (or potentially) that left home early and it paid off for them? Let's leave NTDP departures off this list as those kids are playing for country and spending their time with kids their own age - and almost all of us would encourage our kids to do it. And a lot of them are first or second round picks.

Maybe we should ask the same question in the "Early Departure" thread?

This topic gets beat to death every year. My guess is Ryan Walters is a much better hockey player now than he would have been staying at STA. Each situation is different. How many of us know kids will be 1st or 2nd round pick before being faced with this decision.l I bet Nate Schmidt is much better prepared to go to the Gophers both on and off the ice next year after playing in Fargo. The grind they go through in Jrs. prepares them for the challenges they will face in college in both these areas. Now does it work out for every kid...absolutely not, much the same way not every first round pick is successful in the NHL or for that matter any pro sport. These tough decisons are being made by teenaged kids, give them a break, hell I wish every decision I made worked out as intended.

Your guess is the same as mine, davey. I'm sure he's a better hockey player now than he would have been had he stayed at STA. The point I'm offering for consideration isn't that at all, it's this: how much did it affect their development and was it worth the trade off of not having a "normal" high school experience? If Walters had stayed in high school, would he still have to play a year in the USHL? Of course. He's played 3 already and it looks like he may have to play one more. Would he be better one way or the other? Who knows? It's impossible to answer that question. Would Schmidt have been better off in the long run had he stayed home his senior year, or will the USHL pay off? Don't know... how would we ever know? All I do know is that there is proof that staying home can work. Just look at the MN kids in last year's NHL draft - Leddy, Hanowski, Budish, Delisle, Hesketh, Oliver, Lee, Tardy - all these kids finished their high school careers and graduated with their respective classes. Schroeder went NTDP, Lee & Birkholz went to Fargo USHL.

I'm only saying that the trend lately is to hurry up and ship the kids off before their time - and I'm just not convinced that they can't get to the same destination while also graduating with their buddies. If a kid's got it, he's got it.

He's played 2, his first was before and after the season. i'm sure he's improved a lot, and by all accounts he looks like he's going to be a great player. Bjugsted and Ambroz took his spot this season. he's committed to the U, and with those 2 being first roudners (NB in 10, and SA in 11) his spot would be in and out of the line up...

[nickel slots]

How about Ryan Walters? He's in his third full season in the USHL. Granted, he's committed to the Gophers, BUT, if he plays in the USHL again next year, did he really gain anything? Was it worth being away from home and missing out on the high school experience?

I know it's a hard decision for these families to make, but my opinion is that unless you are a first or second round NHL draft pick type of player, leaving home early might not be the best option all the time.

Can anybody come up with some names of kids that AREN'T first or second round NHL draft picks (or potentially) that left home early and it paid off for them? Let's leave NTDP departures off this list as those kids are playing for country and spending their time with kids their own age - and almost all of us would encourage our kids to do it. And a lot of them are first or second round picks.

Maybe we should ask the same question in the "Early Departure" thread?

This topic gets beat to death every year. My guess is Ryan Walters is a much better hockey player now than he would have been staying at STA. Each situation is different. How many of us know kids will be 1st or 2nd round pick before being faced with this decision.l I bet Nate Schmidt is much better prepared to go to the Gophers both on and off the ice next year after playing in Fargo. The grind they go through in Jrs. prepares them for the challenges they will face in college in both these areas. Now does it work out for every kid...absolutely not, much the same way not every first round pick is successful in the NHL or for that matter any pro sport. These tough decisons are being made by teenaged kids, give them a break, hell I wish every decision I made worked out as intended.

Your guess is the same as mine, davey. I'm sure he's a better hockey player now than he would have been had he stayed at STA. The point I'm offering for consideration isn't that at all, it's this: how much did it affect their development and was it worth the trade off of not having a "normal" high school experience? If Walters had stayed in high school, would he still have to play a year in the USHL? Of course. He's played 3 already and it looks like he may have to play one more. Would he be better one way or the other? Who knows? It's impossible to answer that question. Would Schmidt have been better off in the long run had he stayed home his senior year, or will the USHL pay off? Don't know... how would we ever know? All I do know is that there is proof that staying home can work. Just look at the MN kids in last year's NHL draft - Leddy, Hanowski, Budish, Delisle, Hesketh, Oliver, Lee, Tardy - all these kids finished their high school careers and graduated with their respective classes. Schroeder went NTDP, Lee & Birkholz went to Fargo USHL.

I'm only saying that the trend lately is to hurry up and ship the kids off before their time - and I'm just not convinced that they can't get to the same destination while also graduating with their buddies. If a kid's got it, he's got it.

I would also like to add that each and every family that decides to send their kids off to play hockey have their reasons... whether those reasons are due to their options at home (i.e. smaller Class A program, etc), or their upside potential. It's a major decision not to be taken lightly. I should also clarify that I'm talking more about 15 and 16 year olds than those that are 17 or 18 years old. I would put Schmidt leaving for his senior year in a different category than Fink or Walters leaving after their sophomore years. Of course, it has a lot to do with a kid's maturity level and their comfort in going to a new environment... for some it works, for some it might be too much, too soon.

[Moose Jaw, SK]

Watching Fink back in HS, I always thought he was a kid that needed to move on. He seemed to float a lot and I thought being forced to play an all around game in the USHL against better players would help him in the long run. Certainly we can debate things in hindsight... but I can't say I blame him for making a move he felt would be beneficial to his future.

Ultimately, he has a scholarship to a quality hockey program so it's not like he flamed out and did nothing after leaving. Just because he didn't necessarily pan out as well as the UND coaches thought he might doesn't mean he is a failure.

GB - An opportunity to play DI hockey ANYWHERE certainly doesn't qualify as a failure. And I'm not saying that Ryan Walters, Mike Fink, or anybody that leaves home early is a failure AT ALL... I'm only asking if it was really worth it to leave home. I could certainly see Ryan Walters playing his first year in the USHL next year and still contributing to the Gophers the year after. Same with Mike Fink & Bowling Green.

foti - Kristo went to the NTDP, so I would like to exclude him from this conversation.

I don't think Raboin left early, did he? He's a little ahead of my time, but according to hockeydb.com, he's a March '85 birthday (which would be an '03 grad), and his first year in the USHL was '03-04, so I don't know if he even left home early?

Same with Parenteau... I believe he graduated with his class at Chisago Lakes, then went to Alaska to play junior hockey. Am I mistaken?
http://www.frontiersman.com/articles/20 ... 203698.txt

Parenteau is a great kid with a great story. He played and graduated from Chisago Lakes HS in 07 then he couldn't catch on with an NA team so he played for the St. Paul Lakers of the MJHL for a full season (07-2008). Now he is in his second full season playing for the Alaska Avalanche in the NAHL. He is the team captain as far as I know in Alaska and has recently committed to the U of M. It took him 3 years of juniors after high school but it is unheard of to go from the MJHL to the U. Most kids in the MJ never even make it to D-3.

[muckandgrind]

I know it's a hard decision for these families to make, but my opinion is that unless you are a first or second round NHL draft pick type of player, leaving home early might not be the best option all the time.

I disagree....every situation is different. What if you are a very good player with D1-potential...but, because of where your address is, you don't have access to a decent HS program? And when I mean "program", I mean "coaching".

In that case, you could make an argument that playing Juniors might be the best way to develop to your full potential.

[rinkrat555]

i don't know much about parenteau's past, but he is leading the avalanche in points this year as a D, and he is at +25,,,have seen him play alot this year, jake is a great player and fun to watch

[wbmd]

Casey I believe left breck after his sophmore year played at greenbay his junior year then decided to come back to minnesota his senior year to his hometown of whitebear lake had to sit out half the year for the transfer rule after highschool played a little bit at st johns decided he still had a shot at d1 went back to the ushl for sioux falls then went onto st lawerence

You happen to be talking about a different Parenteau.

[hipcheck]

The problem is two fold. First we are telling players at a much younger age that they are great. Some are, some are just good, not great. They believe that if they stay where they are at, it will hurt their development. In some cases possibly, but in most, the program that developed a players skills will continue to develop those skills.

Secondly, we are having college and junior coaches jumping all over these young players and filling their heads that in order to succeed they must do what they tell you to do.

We have all seen good players plateau at the highschool level. Many make it to college and plateau there. A few get drafted, some make it, many flourish in the minors.

My point is, players develop at various stages, and if they are truly great, then they will be great no matter how they proceed in their choices.

[muckandgrind]

The problem is two fold. First we are telling players at a much younger age that they are great. Some are, some are just good, not great. They believe that if they stay where they are at, it will hurt their development. In some cases possibly, but in most, the program that developed a players skills will continue to develop those skills.

Secondly, we are having college and junior coaches jumping all over these young players and filling their heads that in order to succeed they must do what they tell you to do.

We have all seen good players plateau at the highschool level. Many make it to college and plateau there. A few get drafted, some make it, many flourish in the minors.

My point is, players develop at various stages, and if they are truly great, then they will be great no matter how they proceed in their choices.

That's true much of the time, but not all of the time. There are cases where a player's development can be hampered by staying home and the best thing for them, hockey-development-wise, is to leave. But those are rare cases.

[mulefarm]

Off the top of my head.
1990 goalies: Crandall-not good, Hellji-jury still out, Lee-worked out great, Howe-worked out great. Schmidt-looks like good decsion, Jensen- good decision, Walters-probably will work out.

[Lakeviewing]

I know Ryan Walters and his family. He needs to be a member of the Gophers team in 2010. This kid can score goals, something the Gophers are lacking and he will probably play four years here.

How about Ryan Walters? He's in his third full season in the USHL. Granted, he's committed to the Gophers, BUT, if he plays in the USHL again next year, did he really gain anything? Was it worth being away from home and missing out on the high school experience?

I know it's a hard decision for these families to make, but my opinion is that unless you are a first or second round NHL draft pick type of player, leaving home early might not be the best option all the time.

Can anybody come up with some names of kids that AREN'T first or second round NHL draft picks (or potentially) that left home early and it paid off for them? Let's leave NTDP departures off this list as those kids are playing for country and spending their time with kids their own age - and almost all of us would encourage our kids to do it. And a lot of them are first or second round picks.

Maybe we should ask the same question in the "Early Departure" thread?

[nickel slots]

I know Ryan Walters and his family. He needs to be a member of the Gophers team in 2010. This kid can score goals, something the Gophers are lacking and he will probably play four years here.

I don't disagree one bit... I'd much rather see them give a kid like Ryan a crack at it instead of sticking with guys like White or Larson.