Girls Participating in Boy AAA Tourneys

woodstick · Post by **woodstick** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:21 pm

This past weekend my son participated in a 97 tourney that had four boy teams and 1 girls team. The girls team was very solid. Fun to watch and probably the best girls team I have seen for a particular level. In pool play the girls won 3 and lost 1 and played in the final and lost 1-8.

However, I did not feel it was right for the girls to be there. I had a short conversation with a parent of the girls team and it stayed short because our views differed and I didn't want to make a big deal about it. Basically the point was they were all "97's". But after thinking about it on the way home, I couldn't get it out of my head so thought I could use this board.

I don't feel it is right to have girls play against boys. Our boys were not aware of a girls team being in the tourney as did the coaches. Obviously, the organizing group feels it is okay as they allowed the team to come. I just don't understand the thinking why parents, coaches feel having girls participate is beneficial to their development. There is no checking allowed in girls play so why have them check? I was left shaking my head when hearing a parent tell their daughter how the physical play was lacking. There is definitely a place to showcase the talent of a gifted team but a boys tourney is not the place, in my opinion. I also felt the refs favored the girls team, allowing non-calls while calling our team for penalties because they were playing girls. This of course would be argued by my take and others would agree with me.

I have not looked at any national comments or discussions regarding this matter but curious what other peoples thoughts are. Boys are boys and girls are girls.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:48 pm

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 6:52 am

It's hard to read this without thinking that you're whining about getting your butts kicked by a bunch of girls. Please tell me there's another reason for this thread.

DMom · Post by **DMom** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:27 am

InigoMontoya wrote:It's hard to read this without thinking that you're whining about getting your butts kicked by a bunch of girls. Please tell me there's another reason for this thread.

No, I saw one of their games this weekend. It was painful to watch, though they did win because they were a very good skating team. I would think they are dominating gir'ls teams and were looking for a challenge. Unfortunately it was like watching a very good, very tall squirt team take on a Bantam B team, in that one team was slower but hit more and the other was very fast but resorted to a lot of tripping because they didn't know how to bring down the other players any other way. And I guess if a boy checks you, it's okay to whack him in the head and neck with your stick. In girl's hockey, there must be nothing anyone can do if someone repeatedly ices your goalie's face. I know my 14 year old would never stand for what was happening on the ice but he probably would have been ejected from the game with those refs. At some point hockey becomes a very different game, something this forum is devoted to pointing out to squirt parents, same thing applies to girl's.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:03 am

Wouldn't that be a problem with the refs? I watched a game this spring between a talented 99 team and a less talented 98 team that probably looked a lot like what you've described - the 99 team, however, was not retaliating by slashing heads and ankles (ref issue).

DMom · Post by **DMom** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:27 am

InigoMontoya wrote:Wouldn't that be a problem with the refs? I watched a game this spring between a talented 99 team and a less talented 98 team that probably looked a lot like what you've described - the 99 team, however, was not retaliating by slashing heads and ankles (ref issue).

I don't like to blame things on the refs, people know the rules, and make a choice whether to break them or not, in life and in hockey. I'm a rule follower and if my kid hits another kid over the head with a stick he may not get a penalty but he'll get punished by me after the game. You are supposed to follow rules whether someone is watching or not.

woodstick · Post by **woodstick** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:41 am

The reasons are stated. Not whining about losing because we beat them twice. A good comparison by DMom on the Bantam B vs Squirt A team.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:46 am

I feel like something is missing from this story so to speak. I mean above he mentions this team got to the finals ( I assume that means they got to the championship game). I am not aware of any team making the championship game of any AAA tourney if they weren't good enough to be there. And if they are good enough to make the championship then I don;t see the problem. If they were there and got beat 15-0 every game and got beat up then I get it but it sound sliek this did not happen so what's the issue??? Also, I agree that overall people should follow rules no matter who is watching, on the flip side alot happens in the heat of the momentum of hottly contested compeition and that is why we have refs and if the refs were not calling the game by the rules then that is a ref problem. Otherwise why would we need refs to ebgin with????

Benito Juarez · Post by **Benito Juarez** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:00 am

Girls playing in a boys tournament? Ridiculous.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:15 am

Benito Juarez wrote:Girls playing in a boys tournament? Ridiculous.

Girls beating 3 of the 4 teams of boys they played? Priceless.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:17 am

woodstick wrote:The reasons are stated. Not whining about losing because we beat them twice. A good comparison by DMom on the Bantam B vs Squirt A team.

You're right; if my kids' Bantam B team lost to a Squirt A team, I'd be as embarrassed. In the finals, would you have rather played the boys teams that they beat?

Benito Juarez · Post by **Benito Juarez** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:20 am

InigoMontoya wrote:
Benito Juarez wrote:Girls playing in a boys tournament? Ridiculous.
Girls beating 3 of the 4 teams of boys they played? Priceless.

They should be in the kitchen learning to cook.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:43 am

Benito Juarez wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:
Benito Juarez wrote:Girls playing in a boys tournament? Ridiculous.
Girls beating 3 of the 4 teams of boys they played? Priceless.
They should be in the kitchen learning to cook.

It appears that comment should be directed at 75% of the boys at that tourney.

Night Train · Post by **Night Train** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:48 am

I'll guess the tournament was short a team to fill the field and added the girls team as a solution to help with scheduling.

What tournament?
Was the girls team local?

A little confused about your sons team beating them twice but they were in the championship. It sounds like your son's 97 boys team was the champion. Also, sounds like a small field. If the girls all played PeeWee A with the boys then they are used to the checking. At 97 it wouldn't be entirely uncommon for some of the girls to have a physical advantage over some of the boys. Not a great idea though. Fortunately no one got hurt except for the boys feelings.

A lot of girls AAA teams are very good as they haven't been diluted to the same extent as most boys teams, yet. The strong girls teams have a single top player, or two, from any one association. That's where boys AAA started too. Now boys AAA organizers think they can take 5-6 players from a single association which generally, unless we're talking about the strongest associations, isn't AAA.

Benito Juarez · Post by **Benito Juarez** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:02 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:
Benito Juarez wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote: Girls beating 3 of the 4 teams of boys they played? Priceless.
They should be in the kitchen learning to cook.
It appears that comment should be directed at 75% of the boys at that tourney.

True.

HockeyDad2016 · Post by **HockeyDad2016** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:31 pm

Anybody have score's ?

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:18 pm

What tourny was this??

woodstick · Post by **woodstick** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:26 pm

There were five teams. Each team played each other once. In pool play we (Fighting Loons) beat the girls team 8-1, the Lakers 11-3, FCA Owls, 15-0 and SC Grizzlies 10-4. The girls team (Reebox Express mostly city girls and on girl from MHD I guess) beat the Lakers 7-4, FCA Owls, 4-3 and Grizzlies 6-1. We were seeded 1 and girls seeded 2. The 3rd and 4th seeded teams played each other for third place. The fifth seeded team was done. In the final we beat the girls by the same score, 8-1. Third place the Lakers beat the Grizzlies 4-2.

Tournament was at Breezy Point.

Like I said, the girls team was a solid club with some strong skaters, moved the puck nicely but a boys tourney is not the place, imo, and we should not of been there. Our fault for not knowing the weaker tournament. Some of the Loons players are from Canada and it is a 6 hour trek one way. Live and learn.

So far, I get the feeling it is more about the girls beating the boys. I guess the bottom line on this, if you are going to a tourney with a boys team and don't feel it is right playing a girls team, check with the organizers before signing up.

I think the diluting of AAA teams on the boys side is starting to happen. Less kids going to hockey camp and more playing AAA hockey but probably shouldn't.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:03 pm

woodstick wrote:There were five teams. Each team played each other once. In pool play we (Fighting Loons) beat the girls team 8-1, the Lakers 11-3, FCA Owls, 15-0 and SC Grizzlies 10-4. The girls team (Reebox Express mostly city girls and on girl from MHD I guess) beat the Lakers 7-4, FCA Owls, 4-3 and Grizzlies 6-1. We were seeded 1 and girls seeded 2. The 3rd and 4th seeded teams played each other for third place. The fifth seeded team was done. In the final we beat the girls by the same score, 8-1. Third place the Lakers beat the Grizzlies 4-2.

Tournament was at Breezy Point.

Like I said, the girls team was a solid club with some strong skaters, moved the puck nicely but a boys tourney is not the place, imo, and we should not of been there. Our fault for not knowing the weaker tournament. Some of the Loons players are from Canada and it is a 6 hour trek one way. Live and learn.

So far, I get the feeling it is more about the girls beating the boys. I guess the bottom line on this, if you are going to a tourney with a boys team and don't feel it is right playing a girls team, check with the organizers before signing up.

I think the diluting of AAA teams on the boys side is starting to happen. Less kids going to hockey camp and more playing AAA hockey but probably shouldn't.

Exactly what caliber team did you expect to find at Breezy Point?

redarmydad · Post by **redarmydad** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:10 pm

It was a AAA 97 tournament in Breezy Point. I am a father of one of the girls on that team and am surprised at the comments. Here are the facts.

Fact#1 They were a team of 98 and 97 girls. Not solely 97

Fact#2 It was pool play so we all played each other and the girls won 3 and lost to the Fighting Loons, very solid team, twice. Once in pool play and then again in the championship. Both times the score was 8 - 1

Fact #3 The girls team was the ONLY TEAM to keep the Loons from scoring double digits.

Fact #4 There was no bias from the referees, and to say there was proves ignorance and frustration are leading your post!

Fact #5 All the girls made the decision themselves to play and we simply facilitated them.

What is the rational here? Do you not agree it best to find and play the best competition you can? Are you suggesting that girls have no business playing in the tournament simply because they were girls.

Woodstick, I spoke with a parent from your team and was told they were impressed with our girls and in-fact said they were the best team they faced this weekend. You cry favoritism by the refs! Get real! There were very few penalties called in either game. But penalties were called on both sides.

DMom, don't say they won but it was hard to watch. The referees were fair and just. I didn't see anything that justifies your comments. Your reference of tall Squirts vs Slow bantams is completely wrong. They are a very talented and aggressive bunch of HOCKEY PLAYERS! It is only a small point that they are girls. Would you not agree that the boys should have the advantage since they have been checking for a while and our girls have never. They took hit after hit and still drove that puck home. What heart, what drive, facing such things in life breeds excellence and confidence. You're a fool to think otherwise

DMom · Post by **DMom** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:11 pm

I think it's most interesting because it isn't every day that an all girl's team plays all boys teams, at least not in the cities, it may happen more out-state. I guess I would wonder what the girl's parents thought of it. Obviously they knew they were headed for a checking tournament. Again though I agree with woodstick, what is the point? To prove they are better than some boys teams? No doubt they were. To get used to checking so they could play on a Wayzata boy's team? I doubt it. For the competition? That I could see, except that most of the games were not competitive for them, one way or the other. What difference does it make if you have four or five teams in a tournament, it was a free tournament. Free ice could have been the draw.

DMom · Post by **DMom** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 2:22 pm

Redarmydad- I wrote my post and didn't hit enter for awhile--I have to work. To be honest I have never watched an entire girl's game before, so I don't know what girl's hockey looks like but I can tell you that that wasn't boys Bantam hockey during the game I watched, nor was it boy's peewee hockey because there there is a lot of senseless hitting.

The girls did take a lot of hits, why? As a lot of pre-peewee and peewee parents know, playing in a checking tournament or two does not indicate anything. Returning for a limited run is nothing compared to a full season of checking. The kids who will still take a and give a hit in January is going to make it, the one who starts to duck is in for a long season. My sons have played with girls on their teams and they have been great teammates. Girl's can play boys hockey, just not sure a girl's team played boy's hockey

Bighead · Post by **Bighead** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:11 pm

I want to thank Breezy and many of the realistic parents for a great weekend for our girl's! Our team of 10 skaters and a goalie (that wore some old jerseys from my garage) had a blast.
Our team was a team that was made up of some metro girls that have played together or against each other at some point in the summer or winter over the years. We put the team together to have a great weekend with great parents & kids at Breezy and expose our daughters to a different style of hockey.
You ask...What's the point????? It is hockey in the middle of July at a great resort!!! That's it!! A little hockey and alot of fun!
Did we think we could win....maybe....did we think we would make it to the championship game...no...but give the girl's some credit! We had numerous comments from unbiased observers that were shocked at the level at which our girls played! You can blame the refs, the pony tails, or whatever other excuse you can come up with, but the fact is they had a great time, won some games, and made some new friends!
Some notes from the weekend:
Red team dad running down the bleachers and punching the glass when a flagerant knee-to-knee is a penalty....his team was already down by multiple goals....tough guy!
Moms yelling at their 12-13 yr old boys to "take them out" .....use the body is sufficient (Mom...wish you could have played when you were young!)
Parents cheering when a girl was ran from behind.....cheer when it is a clean, hard check
My favorite was some of the boys from the Loons jumping in the picture on Sunday with the girls after the game! That team had class and skills....very fun to watch!
DMom....you better get back to work...35 pages of comments on the forum is scary....I would have fired you long ago!

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:17 pm

woodstick wrote:There were five teams. Each team played each other once. In pool play we (Fighting Loons) beat the girls team 8-1, the Lakers 11-3, FCA Owls, 15-0 and SC Grizzlies 10-4. The girls team (Reebox Express mostly city girls and on girl from MHD I guess) beat the Lakers 7-4, FCA Owls, 4-3 and Grizzlies 6-1. We were seeded 1 and girls seeded 2. The 3rd and 4th seeded teams played each other for third place. The fifth seeded team was done. In the final we beat the girls by the same score, 8-1. Third place the Lakers beat the Grizzlies 4-2.

Tournament was at Breezy Point.

Like I said, the girls team was a solid club with some strong skaters, moved the puck nicely but a boys tourney is not the place, imo, and we should not of been there. Our fault for not knowing the weaker tournament. Some of the Loons players are from Canada and it is a 6 hour trek one way. Live and learn.

So far, I get the feeling it is more about the girls beating the boys. I guess the bottom line on this, if you are going to a tourney with a boys team and don't feel it is right playing a girls team, check with the organizers before signing up.

I think the diluting of AAA teams on the boys side is starting to happen. Less kids going to hockey camp and more playing AAA hockey but probably shouldn't.

No offense but based on the scores it sounds like the Loons were the ones not appropriate for this particular tourney, not the girls. Also, based on the scores it sounds liek the girls gave the Loons the best game, thank god they were there or it would have been worse.

I don't know, maybe because we have to face all girls teams regularly in association hockey down here it is not a big deal to me. Though the girls gernerally play down a level (ie a U12 girls team will normally play Squirt A boys teams etc....) but you get used to it pretty quickly.

Cut Above · Post by **Cut Above** » Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:32 pm

redarmydad wrote: Fact#1 They were a team of 98 and 97 girls. Not solely 97

Nearly all of them were very mature 1997 talented young ladies. Very few 98's (I can think of maybe 2?).