Lakeville Hockey Board Questions

[maristar]

I was reading through the minutes of the LHA Board for the past few months and talking to other people in the association and had some questions that don't seem to make sense:


Why would the board remove the audio portion of the board meetings? For those who could not attend the meetings, it was a good way to find out what was being said at the meetings.

Why did the board vote to remove the Past President and President Elect positions?

Is this Gus Barger guy really getting paid $35k a year. Isn't he the one who has been kicked out of multiple associations and removed from teaching?

Is the Treasurer getting paid, I heard $8000 a year, where is that in the minutes if it is true.

Is the association going to Total Hockey this year, isn't one of the board members the owner of this?

Was the Gambling manager fired and replaced with one of the President's friends without the board knowing about it?

Why is the season starting so late this year, the kids will be a month behind other associations, and the cost is the same as last year for one month less of skating. That does not make sense-less ice, same cost.

Is this true?

[OnFrozenPond]

I was reading through the minutes of the LHA Board for the past few months and talking to other people in the association and had some questions that don't seem to make sense:


Why would the board remove the audio portion of the board meetings? For those who could not attend the meetings, it was a good way to find out what was being said at the meetings.

Why did the board vote to remove the Past President and President Elect positions?

Is this Gus Barger guy really getting paid $35k a year. Isn't he the one who has been kicked out of multiple associations and removed from teaching?

Is the Treasurer getting paid, I heard $8000 a year, where is that in the minutes if it is true.

Is the association going to Total Hockey this year, isn't one of the board members the owner of this?

Was the Gambling manager fired and replaced with one of the President's friends without the board knowing about it?

Why is the season starting so late this year, the kids will be a month behind other associations, and the cost is the same as last year for one month less of skating. That does not make sense-less ice, same cost.

Is this true?

You might want to attend a board meeting in person and ask these questions. If they are not answered to your liking run for the board next year.

[High Off The Glass]

I was reading through the minutes of the LHA Board for the past few months and talking to other people in the association and had some questions that don't seem to make sense:


Why would the board remove the audio portion of the board meetings? For those who could not attend the meetings, it was a good way to find out what was being said at the meetings.

Why did the board vote to remove the Past President and President Elect positions?

Is this Gus Barger guy really getting paid $35k a year.

Isn't he the one who has been kicked out of multiple associations and removed from teaching?

Is the Treasurer getting paid, I heard $8000 a year, where is that in the minutes if it is true.

Is the association going to Total Hockey this year, isn't one of the board members the owner of this?

Was the Gambling manager fired and replaced with one of the President's friends without the board knowing about it?

Why is the season starting so late this year, the kids will be a month behind other associations, and the cost is the same as last year for one month less of skating. That does not make sense-less ice, same cost.

Is this true?

Are you kidding me!

[cooper26]

You might want to attend a board meeting in person and ask these questions. If they are not answered to your liking run for the board next year.

Maybe he (or she) works 60 hours per week and can't run. Maybe he's just trying to inspire others to run. It sure seems like the questions he asked are fair points for discussion in this forum!

[HeShootsHeScores]

You might want to attend a board meeting in person and ask these questions. If they are not answered to your liking run for the board next year.

Maybe he (or she) works 60 hours per week and can't run. Maybe he's just trying to inspire others to run. It sure seems like the questions he asked are fair points for discussion in this forum!

I aggree. I think everyone can agree that most hockey associations are not "transparent". There is a common fear that if you ask questions you will be labled "on of those parents". Even the hockey experts on this board make muliple comments about "it's the parents that screw the kids chance of getting on an A team" They even say that about AAA teams. I think they are legitimate questions, why not ask here, maybe someone knows something more. And this is more interesting than beating the dead horse Teir 1/Fire thread.

[OnFrozenPond]

You might want to attend a board meeting in person and ask these questions. If they are not answered to your liking run for the board next year.

Maybe he (or she) works 60 hours per week and can't run. Maybe he's just trying to inspire others to run. It sure seems like the questions he asked are fair points for discussion in this forum!

I aggree. I think everyone can agree that most hockey associations are not "transparent". There is a common fear that if you ask questions you will be labled "on of those parents". Even the hockey experts on this board make muliple comments about "it's the parents that screw the kids chance of getting on an A team" They even say that about AAA teams. I think they are legitimate questions, why not ask here, maybe someone knows something more. And this is more interesting than beating the dead horse Teir 1/Fire thread.

Fair point on the time commitment and I will concede that board positions may not be for everyone. However, board meetings are open to the public. Why not attend and at least listen, if you have legitimate questions or concerns.

While it can be an interesting read, very little will be resolved on these gossip pages except starting a rant session.

[hockeyover40]

Almost every time someone comes on hear and has a question about an association, they are told to go to the meetings and run for the board. Get a clue guys, THAT'S NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE. Does that mean they can't ask a question and expect an honest answer.

Let me ask you, who are the board members accountable to? Only to other board members? To association members? Nobody?

[cooper26]

Almost every time someone comes on hear and has a question about an association, they are told to go to the meetings and run for the board. Get a clue guys, THAT'S NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE. Does that mean they can't ask a question and expect an honest answer.

Let me ask you, who are the board members accountable to? Only to other board members? To association members? Nobody?

That's correct and their smug answer will be that they are accountable "only to the kids", which is nuts! The parents are their kid's advocates (legally and morally) and that is the way it should be. Association boards do some crazy things and deserve to be "outed" sometimes. I don't care if this guy got this stuff from friends, or someone else who DID "attend a meeting" or whether he's a frustrated board member himself with no other way to air his concerns.(?) It is all legitimate fodder for discussion by those of us who care about where kid's hockey is headed. Even if no one from Lakeville jumps on here to attempt to clarify anything, it is a valuable discussion for others to consider what our own boards are doing or not doing.

[OnFrozenPond]

Almost every time someone comes on hear and has a question about an association, they are told to go to the meetings and run for the board. Get a clue guys, THAT'S NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE. Does that mean they can't ask a question and expect an honest answer.

Let me ask you, who are the board members accountable to? Only to other board members? To association members? Nobody?

Again, I will concede that running for the board is not for everyone. I don't think attending a meeting that takes place once a month is too difficult (if you truly interested in the process and/or the issues). Several years ago, in our association, a number of parents became dissatisfied with the direction the board was taking the program. Many attended the meetings. Some ran for the board and others got behind alternative candidates that they felt best represented their views. Seems to me that would be a better approach.

So far we have an anonymous poster throwing out mostly gossip. If you think this it going to go anywhere positive...have at it.

[HeShootsHeScores]

Almost every time someone comes on hear and has a question about an association, they are told to go to the meetings and run for the board. Get a clue guys, THAT'S NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE. Does that mean they can't ask a question and expect an honest answer.

Let me ask you, who are the board members accountable to? Only to other board members? To association members? Nobody?

Again, I will concede that running for the board is not for everyone. I don't think attending a meeting that takes place once a month is too difficult (if you truly interested in the process and/or the issues). Several years ago, in our association, a number of parents became dissatisfied with the direction the board was taking the program. Many attended the meetings. Some ran for the board and others got behind alternative candidates that they felt best represented their views. Seems to me that would be a better approach.

So far we have an anonymous poster throwing out mostly gossip. If you think this it going to go anywhere positive...have at it.

i will concede also, because, you are right regarding the gossp. Might as well lock the tread now before it gets out of control

[sinbin]

Having served on a youth hockey board for 5 years, I know that not everything is as transparent as it should be. Even though I was on the board and constantly asked, it was very difficult and took a long time to receive financial numbers. Also, many decisions were made by "committees" with the board then providing approval, as opposed to the full board delving into the minutae of each issue. However, the board did review nearly all of these decisions and that was the board's due dilligence. I presume that LYHA is a 501(c)(3) organization and is thereby subject to audit in order to maintain their tax-exempt status. Anything untoward would likely come out in such an audit. Of course, the goal is to prevent such results.

I, too, would recommend that people attend board meetings and/or run. I worked 60+ hours a week and on top of that was on the board, coached, managed, and did other volunteer work. There's absolutely no excuse for not attending meetings and at least listening (other than perhaps a serious health issue). There is always that risk, at least perceived, of asking unpleasant questions and your kids suffering the consequences. That's a tougher call if you want to stick your neck out. There are very few excuses for not running for the board. Of course, if there's a strong cabal of board members and you raise issues, you may never get elected. For our association of over 500 families, we generally have only 30-40 people attend the annual meeting - and half of those are board members or those running for the board. So, those who don't vote (and we have a proxy voting system so you don't even need to be present) have no excuse. As for board members, it's a mix of those with jobs and those stay-at-home parents and a mix of those who are there only for their own kids and those who are there for all kids.

Boards are not immune from politics, self-interest, and backroom deals, but at least attend meetings, serve on committees, ask questions (good start in this thread, but take it to the next level) - just get involved somehow. Get your friends involved, too. Take action to fix things; don't merely complain. I'll admit that I'm one who complains about things when they're not working as they should, but it's much easier for me to look myself in the mirror if I act to try to fix things (even though not everything can be fixed) then it is to complain about it and nothing changes.

[maristar]

Actually I travel about 4 out of 5 days out of town and am not in town to attend meetings-trying to pay for the kids hockey. Sitting in an airport right now and have some down time.

From my discussion with other members who attended the board meetings, you are allowed 2 minutes to ask a question-look at the agenda. The questions are not answered at the meeting and you are told you will get a response which usually does not happen. You are also not allowed to participate in the discussion at the board meetings. I have also sent emails to board members asking a question and the only response I get is to ask someone else- its an endless loop.

So if a person cannot attend a meeting because of work, and if they do, you get two minutes of the boards time and you don't get an answer back, what is the reason a person should attend the meeting? I must be missing something.

That is why I started this. Just looking for some answers if anyone knows them.

[InigoMontoya]

You might want to attend a board meeting in person and ask these questions. If they are not answered to your liking run for the board next year.

That's awesome advice. If any of this is true, board members and/or friends and/or family are profiting from their position on the board of a non-profit organization.

[hockeyover40]

Almost every time someone comes on hear and has a question about an association, they are told to go to the meetings and run for the board. Get a clue guys, THAT'S NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE. Does that mean they can't ask a question and expect an honest answer.

Let me ask you, who are the board members accountable to? Only to other board members? To association members? Nobody?

Again, I will concede that running for the board is not for everyone. I don't think attending a meeting that takes place once a month is too difficult (if you truly interested in the process and/or the issues). Several years ago, in our association, a number of parents became dissatisfied with the direction the board was taking the program. Many attended the meetings. Some ran for the board and others got behind alternative candidates that they felt best represented their views. Seems to me that would be a better approach.

So far we have an anonymous poster throwing out mostly gossip. If you think this it going to go anywhere positive...have at it.

Oh I agree that's the only way things will get changed. My problem is that you can't find out what really went on. Granted this might not be the best place to discuss things, but maybe it will draw out a response from the board. They need to let their members know what happened. Through this forum, or privately to their members via e-mail, etc. If they want to dispel the rumors then put out the facts.

I doubt very much anyone from Lakeville will come on here, but they could put out the facts to their membership. Look at the Storm may dissolve issue. SW Prez states he can't talk about it, but will send out a notice to the membership. The problem is that the e-mail didn't address what happened, only what will be happening this year, and how we will be moving on. If the rumor of an ultimatum e-mail to SLP is untrue, then share the e-mail with the membership and put the rumors to rest. My money is on, this will not happen. Are they hiding something? Great question. What irks me is the question will more than likely go unanswered.

[InigoMontoya]

I presume that LYHA is a 501(c)(3) organization and is thereby subject to audit in order to maintain their tax-exempt status. Anything untoward would likely come out in such an audit.

How many times has your organization been audited?

That's a tougher call if you want to stick your neck out.

Why should it be considered sticking your neck out if you ask questions like:
Why are our fees higher?
Why is our ice time less?
Why is our development decreasing?
Why are our numbers down?
Why do our volunteer hours increase?
Those are fair questions that should have fair answers that don't need to be researched. Anyone who has actually spent the time they say they have working at the business of an association board will know those answers.

but it's much easier for me to look myself in the mirror if I act to try to fix things (even though not everything can be fixed) then it is to complain about it and nothing changes

A good number of folks that have "complained" on this forum have done just what you said - there are flat spots on their skulls from banging them against the wall. In a good number of associations, the days of "nobody else is stepping up to do it" are over; still these board members grasp onto control and will not let it go - I've even heard of by-laws being rewritten in the middle of the night to secure elections.

[cooper26]

Good post, and I too would recommend serving when it's possible. But it's not for everyone and I think 500+ families in an association and 30 to 40 at the annual meeting is pretty average around the state. We could debate why that's so for a year.

I think the crux of this issue is that boards often seem to go to great lengths to hide information. Elected board members are unaccessable. Meaningful participation is restricted. Real information (not censored mtg. minutes) needs to be available to all members all the time, and easily. That alone would help in getting people to become interested in getting involved.

And I think the legality of the issues the original poster raised are secondary to the question of whether or not they were good decisions for his association. So he's asking the questions, like you say, it's a good start and someone should start trying to answer them openly.

Having served on a youth hockey board for 5 years, I know that not everything is as transparent as it should be. Even though I was on the board and constantly asked, it was very difficult and took a long time to receive financial numbers. Also, many decisions were made by "committees" with the board then providing approval, as opposed to the full board delving into the minutae of each issue. However, the board did review nearly all of these decisions and that was the board's due dilligence. I presume that LYHA is a 501(c)(3) organization and is thereby subject to audit in order to maintain their tax-exempt status. Anything untoward would likely come out in such an audit. Of course, the goal is to prevent such results.

I, too, would recommend that people attend board meetings and/or run. I worked 60+ hours a week and on top of that was on the board, coached, managed, and did other volunteer work. There's absolutely no excuse for not attending meetings and at least listening (other than perhaps a serious health issue). There is always that risk, at least perceived, of asking unpleasant questions and your kids suffering the consequences. That's a tougher call if you want to stick your neck out. There are very few excuses for not running for the board. Of course, if there's a strong cabal of board members and you raise issues, you may never get elected. For our association of over 500 families, we generally have only 30-40 people attend the annual meeting - and half of those are board members or those running for the board. So, those who don't vote (and we have a proxy voting system so you don't even need to be present) have no excuse. As for board members, it's a mix of those with jobs and those stay-at-home parents and a mix of those who are there only for their own kids and those who are there for all kids.

Boards are not immune from politics, self-interest, and backroom deals, but at least attend meetings, serve on committees, ask questions (good start in this thread, but take it to the next level) - just get involved somehow. Get your friends involved, too. Take action to fix things; don't merely complain. I'll admit that I'm one who complains about things when they're not working as they should, but it's much easier for me to look myself in the mirror if I act to try to fix things (even though not everything can be fixed) then it is to complain about it and nothing changes.

[greybeard58]

Maristar,
If you get a chance go to the LHA web site and download the articles on In-corporations, By-laws and anything pertaining to policies and procedures such as a handbook. See if they are actually doing things according to their stated policies, and if copies are in hand this can help prevent any games that might be tried later, most association have rules dealing with by-law changes or changes to governing documents.

You say they have a 2 minute spot, is there a policy where a specific question can be added to the agenda either in advance or by a motion at the meeting. Regular meetings can be governed by different rules but annual meetings are supposed for the general participation, but this you need to check the governing documents of your association.
Another place to look is on either the Sec of state or the Attorney General web sites. I am not sure of the threshold limit but when an association pays a salary above a certain level papers must be filed with the state and this information is posted on-line. Not for a specific individual but the total paid. I believe the section would be non-profits.
You can also check with someone who is familiar with the state laws regarding the gaming laws for non-profits.

Sometimes a trusted friend can attend and take notes and report back and then compare with the posted minutes.

[cooper26]

All good points, but I would still point out. They may very well have done everything (technically) "legally" and "by the book".

The fair questions remain: Were the actions taken in the best interests of organization members? Were they prudent? And is a good effort being made to get all the relevant information to members so that members can formulate their own opinions and give feedback to the board in a timely fashion?

Maristar,
If you get a chance go to the LHA web site and download the articles on In-corporations, By-laws and anything pertaining to policies and procedures such as a handbook. See if they are actually doing things according to their stated policies, and if copies are in hand this can help prevent any games that might be tried later, most association have rules dealing with by-law changes or changes to governing documents.

You say they have a 2 minute spot, is there a policy where a specific question can be added to the agenda either in advance or by a motion at the meeting. Regular meetings can be governed by different rules but annual meetings are supposed for the general participation, but this you need to check the governing documents of your association.
Another place to look is on either the Sec of state or the Attorney General web sites. I am not sure of the threshold limit but when an association pays a salary above a certain level papers must be filed with the state and this information is posted on-line. Not for a specific individual but the total paid. I believe the section would be non-profits.
You can also check with someone who is familiar with the state laws regarding the gaming laws for non-profits.

Sometimes a trusted friend can attend and take notes and report back and then compare with the posted minutes.

[greybeard58]

Thank you Cooper 26 for the additional points.

[hockeyover40]

The fair questions remain: Were the actions taken in the best interests of organization members? Were they prudent? And is a good effort being made to get all the relevant information to members so that members can formulate their own opinions and give feedback to the board in a timely fashion?

EXACTLY!!!

[cooperclutterbuck]

Just a couple of points. The first thing to remember is that everyone on the board is a volunteer. The majority of people don't volunteer to go to the dark side, they were just plain interested, upset or whatever and wanted to participate. The answer to some of the questions are as follows.

The board started audio in Dec of 09. While it sounds neat and techy, it didn't always work so well. The batteries failed, you couldn't hear what people said and the quality wasn't so great. So we voted and it stopped.

The Past President position wasn't removed, just the voting. The President elect position was removed because people felt it was not helpful to the process.

The treasurer was voted to get paid $8500. That will be in minutes posted in October.

The Association is going to Total Hockey this year. That board member was not at the meeting where that was decided and did not vote. Per the conflict of interest policy any board member with a conflict recuses themself from voting.

Research was done with all the associations and significant review before deciiding on the date to start the season. Much thought went into that. The kids will not be behind. Just because we started earlier last year does not mean kids were on the ice 24/7.

I suggest you come to a board meeting even if you are busy. We all are. Everyone works....Run for the board, come and present, or just plain listen to what goes on.

[MrBoDangles]

Don't ruffle too many feathers, you might mess up your kids with the politics. Your family is stuck playing where you live. Good luck with your issues....

[trippedovertheblueline]

email the whole board of the LHA, CC a few of your friends. Request a when you reasonably plan to hear back from them. If enough people want answers get on the agenda. Request to meet with a board member for coffee.

[maristar]

Just a couple of points. The first thing to remember is that everyone on the board is a volunteer. The majority of people don't volunteer to go to the dark side, they were just plain interested, upset or whatever and wanted to participate. The answer to some of the questions are as follows.

The board started audio in Dec of 09. While it sounds neat and techy, it didn't always work so well. The batteries failed, you couldn't hear what people said and the quality wasn't so great. So we voted and it stopped.

The Past President position wasn't removed, just the voting. The President elect position was removed because people felt it was not helpful to the process.

The treasurer was voted to get paid $8500. That will be in minutes posted in October.

The Association is going to Total Hockey this year. That board member was not at the meeting where that was decided and did not vote. Per the conflict of interest policy any board member with a conflict recuses themself from voting.

Research was done with all the associations and significant review before deciiding on the date to start the season. Much thought went into that. The kids will not be behind. Just because we started earlier last year does not mean kids were on the ice 24/7.

I suggest you come to a board meeting even if you are busy. We all are. Everyone works....Run for the board, come and present, or just plain listen to what goes on.

According to the Nov 09 minutes $750 was approved for the purchase of audio recording equipment. "Kent made a motion to approve up to $750 for audio recording equipment, second by Bart
Winkler. Motion carried (8 yes, 5 no)". I find it hard to believe that $750 of audio recording equipment in not sufficient enough to produce a quality audio recording for members to hear, especially when others are doing it. Doesn't make sense the batteries ran out- was Rosemary Woods running this?

The Board felt that the President Elect position is not helpful to the process, is like saying a Dr. doesn't need training before he/she starts practicing. Also why would you take a past president vote away?

Why is a motion that is passed in August, not recorded in the August minutes and now takes until someone questions it to post it in the October minutes?

Since you seem to know about the conflict of interest rule, and I have heard in the past that there is a 3 vendor bid process, who where the other vendors invited to participate in the process? Who cares if one person does not vote on a vendor if no one else is given a chance to bid on it?

So of the seven original questions, you did not give a rational answer to three of them and did not answer two and then you wonder why people don't run for positions!

Is Gus Berger the person who was let go from New Prague, Burnsville and St. Louis Park programs to name just a few? Why would the Board hire and then pay him 35k a year when the position was created as a non-paying job per the Dec 09 audio (didn't have a problem hearing it on the website-batteries must have been good that day)?

Was the gambling manager removed by the President without the
Boards prior knowledge and approval?

[interestedbystander]

Don't ruffle too many feathers, you might mess up your kids with the politics. Your family is stuck playing where you live. Good luck with your issues....

That boat has long done sailed