A & AA classification starting at Pee Wee in 2012-13

itsjustkidshockey · Post by **itsjustkidshockey** » Mon May 09, 2011 11:29 pm

I just heard at our hockey board meeting tonight that MN Hockey took their eyes off ADM and no PW Checking for a minute to pass a new classification for regional and state tournaments.

Starting in 2012-13 season, teams will play their normal district schedule and then get seeded into two separate classes based on where the association high school is classified - A or AA.

I'm not a fan of a system that potential could never see the two best teams in the state face off during playoffs. I'm not a fan that allows and promotes districts to have AA and A teams play all year only to find that playing weaker competition means a tougher road when they get seeded into AA regions.

If this is this case, then MNHOC should redistrict teams so that we have true A and AA districts and teams can compete at the same level throughout the year.

Bottom line is that this is very disappointing to hear and i feel sorry for the A schools because when when they win their tournament, they will still be labeled "A" and not considered as a top team. Poor judgment on MN Hockey and poor judgement on how they weaseled a vote in on this.

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Tue May 10, 2011 12:01 am

Do you really think the kids will care weather its A or AA?? You are just letting 8 more teams get a shot that most associations will never get with the current system anyways. The only thing the current system shows is you just need the right zip code if you want to play for the State title. And that is at any one of the levels weather its B peewee to A bantams.

Air Force 1 · Post by **Air Force 1** » Tue May 10, 2011 7:57 am

Here is s clip from an e-mail sent out by John Perry, VP Maroon Coordinator.

We presented this at the Maroon Directors meeting last night for review. The idea behind this is to have associations lined up with the High School they feed into. For example if your from White Bear Lake your HS is a AA team so your bantams teams would be AA for the pilot. If your at AA and you want to have another AA team you can or if you want to have a A team you can. These teams would play in the same league as Bantam A's. You would declare if your second team is A for district, region and state tournaments only. The associations next Bantam team would be their B team. So you could have 1-15 skaters AA and 16-31 either AA or A and then 32-47 your B team. The same would apply if your HS is a A school.

What it looks like is associations like Edina, Wayzata, and such will now have what we currently know as their "A" teams play "AA", then their top "B1" will now play "A" or can opt up to also play "AA". I think it is bigger news that what we know as "B1" in the mega associations will now be at least an "A".

I see this working in the metro where there is a concentration of potential "AA" teams but I do not fully understand it yet and am curious how it will affect the outstate programs where the school is "AA", will Bemidji, Roseau, Moorhead, Grand Rapids, Cloquet play "AA" in youth hockey and move their "B" teams to "A"?

Kids or adults, the new state tournament structure will immediately be viewed much like the high school tournament, "AA" is the true champion, "A" is the Jr Varsity Championship.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Tue May 10, 2011 8:40 am

What a joke!!! Another example of "everyone gets to win".

Wildcathcky · Post by **Wildcathcky** » Tue May 10, 2011 8:59 am

youngblood08 wrote:Do you really think the kids will care weather its A or AA?? You are just letting 8 more teams get a shot that most associations will never get with the current system anyways.

Those additional 8 teams won't really be getting the same shot (experience) that the current state tourney teams are getting. Part of the current allure is that only 8 teams out of the entire state make it. There is no question that people will view the "A" tourney as a lesser event, even if the top "A" team(s) are better than the "AA" teams. If the goal is simply to allow more kids to say they played in a state tourney, then why stop at two divisions. You could create three or four. I come from a medium size association that will make it to state very rarely, but we often have teams that compete well at the regional tourney. IMO, competing well at regions under the current model is a better experience for the kids than making it to a watered down state tourney format.

black sheep · Post by **black sheep** » Tue May 10, 2011 9:53 am

Air Force 1 wrote:I see this working in the metro where there is a concentration of potential "AA" teams but I do not fully understand it yet and am curious how it will affect the outstate programs where the school is "AA", will Bemidji, Roseau, Moorhead, Grand Rapids, Cloquet play "AA" in youth hockey and move their "B" teams to "A"?

The outstate teams can field teams that can compete at the current "A" level, but rarely at the "B1"

I can see most of these tradition towns wanting to play "AA" for their top group and "B" for the second group. The talent just falls off too quickly for them.

I wonder if that is possible?

AlterEagle · Post by **AlterEagle** » Tue May 10, 2011 11:27 am

youngblood08 wrote:Do you really think the kids will care weather its A or AA?? You are just letting 8 more teams get a shot that most associations will never get with the current system anyways. The only thing the current system shows is you just need the right zip code if you want to play for the State title. And that is at any one of the levels weather its B peewee to A bantams.

What's wrong with the current model youngblood? Or are e just trying to follow suit with today's "more trophies" philosophy??? and kids will care if it's A vs AA over time as AA will become supreme status and A will be the lesser. JUST LIKE IN HS.....

Post by **karl(east)** » Tue May 10, 2011 11:55 am

What strikes me about this new arrangement--much like the recent decision to make associations line up with high school attendance areas--is how much the once moderately independent youth systems are now being tied to public high schools. From the perspectives of the public high schools, this makes all the sense in the world.

Some people see the new class as "trophy chasing." I'm afraid I see a different motive--I think it's an effort to further separate youth hockey into dofferent tiers. I'm not sure I like that, though I think it requires more thought. There's a lot going on behind the scenes here, and good or bad, it deserves our scrutiny.

frederick61 · Post by **frederick61** » Tue May 10, 2011 5:38 pm

Explain how this benefits peewee kids and their development. This year, Eagan and Duluth East had top AA teams and their peewee A's were marginal at best. Those kids could develop by high school, but not by playing AA peewee against the Edinas. Sometimes kids need time to develop and the coaches behind this need to take a chill pill.

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Wed May 11, 2011 12:29 am

What wrong with letting a few more kids have fun playing hockey? Look at the Association Tournaments, why is it always the same teams in the Edina, Duluth East, WBL and a few other touneys during the season? Because the really strong programs want it that way. So why not make it the same for the State Touney, let the very large associations that have a huge advantage, play for the AA. It hurts no one and it fools no one.

The best teams will play the BEST teams for the right to be the TOP team........and everyone will still know it. They will still be able to play district schedules and tournaments all season long at the end put the best with the best.

Do you think its right that a team from D1 gets in when there is only 3-4 teams in that District? Yet D8 has 16 teams going for 2-3 spots in Regionals? How about the Southern Districts some of these areas that are historically weaker they arent giving the current system much credit either. You think its enjoyable for them to show up and get blown out in 4 games?? No trophy chasing or Getting a trophy when you walk in the door or at sign-ups, but lets be real some teams will never have a shot and others will every year. I dont think it will hurt any of the kids playing, only give a few more a shot at wining a trophy that will shortly be long forgotten.

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Wed May 11, 2011 12:30 am

frederick61 wrote:Explain how this benefits peewee kids and their development. This year, Eagan and Duluth East had top AA teams and their peewee A's were marginal at best. Those kids could develop by high school, but not by playing AA peewee against the Edinas. Sometimes kids need time to develop and the coaches behind this need to take a chill pill.

Your talking about 4-6 games not a whole season.

frederick61 · Post by **frederick61** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:13 am

youngblood08 wrote:
frederick61 wrote:Explain how this benefits peewee kids and their development. This year, Eagan and Duluth East had top AA teams and their peewee A's were marginal at best. Those kids could develop by high school, but not by playing AA peewee against the Edinas. Sometimes kids need time to develop and the coaches behind this need to take a chill pill.
Your talking about 4-6 games not a whole season.

No, I am talking about 6th grade kids being compared to 12th grade kids. Why should a high school rule be applied to kids learning to play hockey? As most parents know, the 6th grade kids who are A will immediately feel less of a hockey player then kids who are AA. Further it will split the 100 or so peewee teams playing A level dramatically during playoffs.

At the District level playoffs, the each district will have to split their 5-13 or so A level teams into AA and A, the regionals would have to be replicated at some level just to get to two state tourneys unless one simply seeds the top AA teams into one AA tourney.

And how does this help the kids learn to play hockey? Please answer the question?

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Wed May 11, 2011 9:27 am

Fred- I agree w/ what you said. Let me add how about the kids in programs like Forest Lake, who will be stuck playing only thr "big boys" and never have a shot. We are AA but not in that same group as the successful programs AA progams.

frederick61 · Post by **frederick61** » Wed May 11, 2011 11:48 am

The list below should provide some food for thought. It basically says that based on last March’s 32 peewee A regional teams, 21 would be AA teams and 11 would be A teams.

Of the 100 or so peewee A teams last year, 61 teams would be designated AA and the remaining 40 designated A. Based on last year’s high school designation, Dodge County, Sibley, St. Francis, MALM, and River Lakes peewee A teams would become AA teams. In addition peewee B teams Winona, Cottage Grove, North St. Paul, Cambridge/Isanti, and Becker/Big Lake would become peewee AA teams.

Nobody has answered the question as to how this move helps the 6th grade kid develop as a hockey player.

North Regional (3-AA teams and 5-A teams)
Grand Rapids-AA
Fergus Falls-A
Bemidji-AA
Virginia-A
Moorhead-AA
East Grand Forks-A
Thief River Falls-A
Hibbing-A
Note that all eight associations support a single high school.

East Regional (6-AA teams and 2-A teams)
White Bear Lake-AA
Duluth East-AA
Elk River-AA
Tartan-AA
Hermantown-A
Anoka-AA
Blaine-AA
Mahtomedi-A
Note that all eight associations support a single high school.

South Regional (6-AA teams and 2-A teams)
Farmington-AA
Lakeville South-AA
Rochester-AA
Lakeville North-AA
Luverne-A
Owatonna-AA
Northfield-A
Rosemount-AA
Note Lakeville is one association (Lakeville South and Lakeville North). Rochester supports three public AA high schools (Rochester John Marshall, Rochester Century, and Rochester Mayo) and one private school (Rochester Lourdes).

West Regional (6-AA teams and 2-A teams)
St. Cloud-AA/A
OMG-AA
Edina-AA
Sartell-A
Wayzata-AA
Eden Prairie-AA
Burnsville-AA
St. Michael/Albertville-A
Note St. Cloud supports one AA high school (St. Cloud Tech), one A high school (St. Cloud Apollo) and one private school (St. Cloud Cathedral). OMG support two AA high schools (Maple Grove and Osseo).

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Wed May 11, 2011 1:25 pm

old goalie85 wrote:Fred- I agree w/ what you said. Let me add how about the kids in programs like Forest Lake, who will be stuck playing only thr "big boys" and never have a shot. We are AA but not in that same group as the successful programs AA progams.

The details haven't been released yet, but it's my understanding that associations will have an opportunity to "appeal" their AA/A designation and that some weaker teams that feed into a "AA" high school will be able to compete in the "A" postseason tournaments. Conversely, teams that would fall under the "A" designation will have an opportunity to play up at the "AA" level (ie Roseau).

Concerned Hockey Coach · Wed May 11, 2011 1:52 pm

I've struggled with a reaction to this but have settled into conditional satisfaction with this new system because it places the decision for where a team should play with the local association, AND it only applies to the post-season.

From what I can tell from the posts (thus possibly we shouldn't be too surprised if somethings are less than accurate), the real change is that the top notch programs' B1 teams will now play an "A" district schedule because its only at the post season where teams get "seeded".

It will be interesting to see what associations decide to do because the reason most associations don't have A2 teams is because they don't want their A team playing their B1 team - its regarded as not good for the program (something that I think is true.) However, since the two unequal teams won't be competing in the post-season, associations may no longer have a problem with having two "A" teams.

I'm strangely liking this proposal the more I think about it....

57special · Post by **57special** » Wed May 11, 2011 11:04 pm

I grew up playing this way many years ago in Quebec. I lived in a small city of 20.000, and even though we played all size of cities or towns during the regular season schedule , in most of the big tournaments there were AA(over 25,000 pop.) and A(15,000-25,000 pop), and B (under 15,000) sections. Some of the cities we played against during the regular season had 5 times the population, others 1/2.

It was still REALLY tough to win the big tournaments in your own section, and a couple of times we had the opportunity to play for the Grand Championship against the big boys.

I don't see what's wrong with leveling out the playing field. Would it really be so bad to have two different Champions strutting around during the summer instead of one?

TTpuckster · Post by **TTpuckster** » Thu May 12, 2011 2:31 pm

muckandgrind wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:Fred- I agree w/ what you said. Let me add how about the kids in programs like Forest Lake, who will be stuck playing only thr "big boys" and never have a shot. We are AA but not in that same group as the successful programs AA progams.
The details haven't been released yet, but it's my understanding that associations will have an opportunity to "appeal" their AA/A designation and that some weaker teams that feed into a "AA" high school will be able to compete in the "A" postseason tournaments. Conversely, teams that would fall under the "A" designation will have an opportunity to play up at the "AA" level (ie Roseau).

So, if this is the case, then just leave it as is.
You will basically end up with the same thing.

TTpuckster · Post by **TTpuckster** » Thu May 12, 2011 2:32 pm

And, by the way, Fred is correct.
It has nothing to do with helping 6th graders develop.
Leave it alone.

SECoach · Post by **SECoach** » Thu May 12, 2011 2:53 pm

Fred is correct. It had nothing to do with development. Go ahead and change it.

youngblood08 · Post by **youngblood08** » Thu May 12, 2011 8:06 pm

It will change a few things. 8 more teams will get a little longer season, a few more games and more experience. Isn't that part of development??

2legit2quitguy · Post by **2legit2quitguy** » Fri May 13, 2011 7:33 am

I suspect $ played a part in all this (typically does). Rather than 1 site hosting a state Tournament, you will have 2. That means more hotels & restaurants will be making money for the host area. Not a bad idea. also, more kids will receiving awards, which always makes everyone happy.

observer · Post by **observer** » Fri May 13, 2011 9:55 am

There was also a discussion of dropping B level State Tournaments a year ago. Possibly related?

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Fri May 13, 2011 10:16 am

If it is about $. Why would they drop the B tournys?

frederick61 · Post by **frederick61** » Fri May 13, 2011 11:07 am

youngblood08 wrote:It will change a few things. 8 more teams will get a little longer season, a few more games and more experience. Isn't that part of development??

What eight teams?