Here come the girls

Burnbabyburn · Post by **Burnbabyburn** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:59 am

Despite it being more fun socially for the girls, I think the no check rule will flood Pee Wee programs across the state with not only the Top girls, whose parents want them competing against tougher competition, but even the medium-to-good players, who will see an opportunity to play faster. Because when the top girls leave U12, (and they will), the near-top girls have no incentive to stay. And when they leave, so goes the next level.

I can see Girls surviving, but without the most competitive girls, it will be much harder to go through U12 to get to High School. And with many girls leaving at U14, will all the gains made these last few years just go away?

I'll post this on both the Youth and Girls boards, see what people think.

O-townClown · Post by **O-townClown** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:23 pm

Minnesota's hockey culture is much different from what you see in competitive youth soccer. Girls are separated out by age 9 and are never seen playing with boys past age 11.

Minnesota has enough girls playing youth hockey. A cultural shift that saw travel coaches cut all girls that try out would eliminate your concerns.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 12:57 pm

Maybe they should call it "Boys hockey" .

luckyEPDad · Post by **luckyEPDad** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:27 pm

O-townClown wrote:Minnesota's hockey culture is much different from what you see in competitive youth soccer. Girls are separated out by age 9 and are never seen playing with boys past age 11.

Minnesota has enough girls playing youth hockey. A cultural shift that saw travel coaches cut all girls that try out would eliminate your concerns.

Nice clean illegal solution just itching for a lawsuit.

ActingManager · Post by **ActingManager** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:28 pm

Well played, old goalie85, well played.

Intheslot · Post by **Intheslot** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:44 pm

Devil's advocate here. Seems we have a few people here that need a little diversity training,(won't name names, you know who you are). Things might be seen differently if your little Johnny was a little Jane and you were just looking to get your kid the best level of play and the best coaching.

Cdale · Post by **Cdale** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:59 pm

old goalie85 wrote:Maybe they should call it "Boys hockey" .

Seriously- Novel idea. Boys play boy hockey, girls play girl hockey, (peewees play peewee, squirts play squirts, mites play mites), boys play boy soccer, girls play girl soccer..basketball...baseball/softball...gymnastics...etc... or do we just make it hockey/bball/soccer and anyone can play on any team. What's the point of having 'boys' and 'girls' leagues if girls are allowed to cross over. And I'm not trying to be a sexist here.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:18 pm

I have both. I have never seen a girl run boys track.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:33 pm

Intheslot wrote:Devil's advocate here. Seems we have a few people here that need a little diversity training,(won't name names, you know who you are). Things might be seen differently if your little Johnny was a little Jane and you were just looking to get your kid the best level of play and the best coaching.

I know some outstanding coaches that only coach girls teams...... They have daughters. What would happen if a bulk of talented boys switched over for the great coaching? If a girl needs to be challenged they should simply be moved up to a higher level of GIRLS Hockey.

Don't you have a protest to be at?

Intheslot · Post by **Intheslot** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:38 pm

To clarify, I'm only talking of youth hockey. There is usually a dramatic separation of physical abilities by the time HS comes around in all sports. There is always an exception to the rule in regards to special athletes though. I don't think the BP little league team minded having Krissy on their team or the bantam hockey team for that matter.
In any event most female athletes that play with the boys earn their spots and in most cases, are respected by their peers. It's the parents with all the beefs.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:04 pm

Intheslot wrote:To clarify, I'm only talking of youth hockey. There is usually a dramatic separation of physical abilities by the time HS comes around in all sports. There is always an exception to the rule in regards to special athletes though. I don't think the BP little league team minded having Krissy on their team or the bantam hockey team for that matter.
In any event most female athletes that play with the boys earn their spots and in most cases, are respected by their peers. It's the parents with all the beefs.

Ringette is a thing of the past.

Krissy didn't have the options in girls Hockey that are around today.

hockeyover40 · Post by **hockeyover40** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:07 pm

Don't forget the 7th grader in Rochester that played on the boys HS tennis team. That team was called "Boy's Tennis". IHO, there's no way you're going to legally keep girls from playing, and if you try, you're going to open yourself up to a lawsuit.

luckyEPDad · Post by **luckyEPDad** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:13 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:Ringette is a thing of the past.

You ever try playing ringette? It's really hard. Floor hockey I understand, but what's the sense behinde ringette? Baseketball makes more sense than ringette.

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:16 pm

Until USA Hockey changes their registration rules, girls can roster on both youth and girls teams. In USA Hockey that could be a 12A and a Peewee A team, at least Mn Hockey has the rule but allows a girl rostered on a girls traveling can only play on a youth C team. Or a girl can just roster on a youth team in Mn Hockey.
Get the mountain to change but until then we have to abide.

NotEasyBeingGreen · Post by **NotEasyBeingGreen** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:39 pm

I think parents will put their kids where they think they can get the best coaching AND the best competition. If a girl won't get hit until the 14's now, the very best girls WILL come to the boys program. Will they beat out the best boys? Probably not, but if your kid's on the bubble, you might have just moved down a level.

luckyEPDad · Post by **luckyEPDad** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:08 pm

NotEasyBeingGreen wrote:I think parents will put their kids where they think they can get the best coaching AND the best competition. If a girl won't get hit until the 14's now, the very best girls WILL come to the boys program. Will they beat out the best boys? Probably not, but if your kid's on the bubble, you might have just moved down a level.

Girls playing PW hockey will get hit. Not full blown checking, but a lot of body contact. There will also be more contact at squirt level. Are we going to see the end of girls playing squirts?

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:50 pm

At PeeWee a lot of the girls are bigger and stronger than the boys. That changes at bantam.

I was not in favor of the rule change. Boys are nice at the PeeWee age and that's the correct time to start checking. Lots of bantam aged boys start to get mean (new found maturity, strength and speed) and love to hit. It will be a disaster as you'll have the haves (experienced and willing physical players) and the have nots (scared and not willing). This will get interesting.

I’m still confused if there will any checking anywhere before bantam. Tier 1 AAA winter hockey is part of USA Hockey and will not have checking. AAA summer?

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:55 pm

old goalie85 wrote:I have both. I have never seen a girl run boys track.

Rochester Mayo just won the state AA Boys Tennis title with a girl playing 3rd singles.

In bigger associations this is a non issue but in smaller ones even the defection of two girls to the boys program could kill the girls program, especially if one of those is a goalie. I've seen girls teams with one goalie, there is little question that a girl goalie will get better competition in a boys setting.

spin-o-rama · Post by **spin-o-rama** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:45 pm

goldy313 wrote:
old goalie85 wrote:I have both. I have never seen a girl run boys track.
Rochester Mayo just won the state AA Boys Tennis title with a girl playing 3rd singles.

In bigger associations this is a non issue but in smaller ones even the defection of two girls to the boys program could kill the girls program, especially if one of those is a goalie. I've seen girls teams with one goalie, there is little question that a girl goalie will get better competition in a boys setting.

She played some at #2. And she's in 7th grade.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/123428624.html

If an association is stable at the U10 level, they'll be fine at U12. There won't be more girls playing PeeWee than Squirts. The girl angle of the new rule is a non issue.

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:58 pm

The girl angle of the new rule is a non issue.

Totally wrong. The impact will vary widely based on the association, their numbers, location and culture.

spin-o-rama · Post by **spin-o-rama** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:03 pm

observer wrote:
The girl angle of the new rule is a non issue.
Totally wrong. The impact will vary widely based on the association, their numbers, location and culture.

Explain how there will be a move from U10 to PW.

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:59 pm

Explain how there will be a move from U10 to PW.

There won't be. Currently many girls skate with boys at the Squirt level. Most opt to move to U12 when checking starts. That's changed now. Most girls that skate successfully at the Squirt level will stick with the boys game and play PeeWee. Never a big number but a very important one as they are often the 2-3 girls that could make a huge impact on a U12 team but now they're not there. It will hurt many, mostly smaller, associations.

spin-o-rama · Post by **spin-o-rama** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:15 pm

observer wrote:
Explain how there will be a move from U10 to PW.
There won't be. Currently many girls skate with boys at the Squirt level. Most opt to move to U12 when checking starts. That's changed now. Most girls that skate successfully at the Squirt level will stick with the boys game and play PeeWee. Never a big number but a very important one as they are often the 2-3 girls that could make a huge impact on a U12 team but now they're not there. It will hurt many, mostly smaller, associations.

So the key is having a stable U10 program. It's unrealistic to expect a U12 level to thrive when there isn't a viable U10 level. U10 numbers are not affected by the new rule and have everything to do with U12 success. So, on paper, there should be no girl program issues with the new rule.

Feel free to quote me in a year if I'm wrong. It's happened lots before.

NotEasyBeingGreen · Post by **NotEasyBeingGreen** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:36 pm

Parents want the best competition for their kids, no matter what their sex is. There is no question that the massively larger number of kids will lead to faster, better hockey for girls, no matter their playing level. It will be great for girls hockey at the high school level, but I think if will cause tremendous harm to it at the association level.

What posslible upside is there for playing with all girls anymore?

The #1 reason for playing U10 was that you were coming back at U12. Now you won't be. Why play with slower competition?

O-townClown · Post by **O-townClown** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:06 pm

luckyEPDad wrote:
O-townClown wrote:Minnesota's hockey culture is much different from what you see in competitive youth soccer. Girls are separated out by age 9 and are never seen playing with boys past age 11.

Minnesota has enough girls playing youth hockey. A cultural shift that saw travel coaches cut all girls that try out would eliminate your concerns.
Nice clean illegal solution just itching for a lawsuit.

Nothing illegal about it. Sue away. Coach: I routinely cut players to get down from the 45 registered to form a team with 12 skaters. Association: We provide B teams and girls teams for those that don't make the A team. Everyone that wants to play is allowed.