THE VARSITY HYPE

[GREEN MONSTER]

Ok, so your bragging to me that your kid plays Varsity as a seventh or eighth grader!

I say "what association are you from?"

You say whatever you say

I say "are you carrying a 14A or 12A squad in youth hockey?"

You say "not enough kids"

I say "huh"

Stop bragging your kid plays Varsity Hockey when there is a lack of numbers or lack of options! And why would you submit a 12 and 13 year old to that environment? I understand the lack of options at the youth level or that you were seeking different/better coaching, but don't sit there on your bar stool and tell me how awesome your kid is. And how it is a waste of her time to play in age appropriate levels against upper squads, and the fact that she hasn't been invited to any Selects tournaments or sought after to play on an upper level AAA squad is due to some misplaced nepotism and favoritism from coaches! When the truth is that should she step out on the ice against players of the same level, she is constantly getting lit up and missing passes and shots. Put her against the top girls in the state, we all know who they are and see what happens! I know a lot of coaches who participate in Selects and Elite tournaments, THEY WANNA WIN!! They don't go to play favorites and lose! Get over yourself and get real!

Am I what I think I am!!

[luckyEPDad]

Ok, so your bragging to me that your kid plays Varsity as a seventh or eighth grader!

I say "what association are you from?"

You say whatever you say

I say "are you carrying a 14A or 12A squad in youth hockey?"

You say "not enough kids"

I say "huh"

Stop bragging your kid plays Varsity Hockey when there is a lack of numbers or lack of options! And why would you submit a 12 and 13 year old to that environment? I understand the lack of options at the youth level or that you were seeking different/better coaching, but don't sit there on your bar stool and tell me how awesome your kid is. And how it is a waste of her time to play in age appropriate levels against upper squads, and the fact that she hasn't been invited to any Selects tournaments or sought after to play on an upper level AAA squad is due to some misplaced nepotism and favoritism from coaches! When the truth is that should she step out on the ice against players of the same level, she is constantly getting lit up and missing passes and shots. Put her against the top girls in the state, we all know who they are and see what happens! I know a lot of coaches who participate in Selects and Elite tournaments, THEY WANNA WIN!! They don't go to play favorites and lose! Get over yourself and get real!

Am I what I think I am!!

Gee, I thought the competition was supposed to be on the ice. When someone wants to tell me how great their payer is I listen politely, say "Good for her!" or "That's too bad." at the appropriate times and turn my eyes back to what is happening on the ice.

BTW My daughter has been working out with the varsity squad. I'm sure she'll be a starter. Her AAA team isn't doing all that well, but the coach is a joke and the other girls don't belong on the team. She really should be playing on this other team, but that roster was set when she was 8.

[SECoach]

Ok, so your bragging to me that your kid plays Varsity as a seventh or eighth grader!

I say "what association are you from?"

You say whatever you say

I say "are you carrying a 14A or 12A squad in youth hockey?"

You say "not enough kids"

I say "huh"

Stop bragging your kid plays Varsity Hockey when there is a lack of numbers or lack of options! And why would you submit a 12 and 13 year old to that environment? I understand the lack of options at the youth level or that you were seeking different/better coaching, but don't sit there on your bar stool and tell me how awesome your kid is. And how it is a waste of her time to play in age appropriate levels against upper squads, and the fact that she hasn't been invited to any Selects tournaments or sought after to play on an upper level AAA squad is due to some misplaced nepotism and favoritism from coaches! When the truth is that should she step out on the ice against players of the same level, she is constantly getting lit up and missing passes and shots. Put her against the top girls in the state, we all know who they are and see what happens! I know a lot of coaches who participate in Selects and Elite tournaments, THEY WANNA WIN!! They don't go to play favorites and lose! Get over yourself and get real!

Am I what I think I am!!

I would submit that "that environment" will vary from program to program and it's shortsighted to imply that it is unhealthy for a younger player across the board.

[calm down]

I in fact have a daughter who played varsity hockey as a 7th grader, and I will be the first to admit it is a function of where you reside and what your options are. We did our due diligence as parents and it all worked out. To each their own....

[GREEN MONSTER]

I was as cordial and positive as any man would be. My point was to say that maybe he should stop crying and bragging and focus in on reality. It was an over-the-top conversation.
LUCKY- You may be nice to the man's face but as soon as you walk away, your thoughts and opinions among your friends would have betrayed your delicate sensibilities. Don't portray yourself the saint and then become the sinner behind closed doors! Atleast I am up front and honest! The game is always played and decided on the ice. But don't get caught up in the Garden of Eden you live in. As always, you're opinion and fasination with your coaches borders on the obsessive stalker. I think you may have developed a hankering for your daughters hockey coach. And CUT, I think you could get in on the action if you wanted to, seeing how you're lips are already chapped from kissing unlucky's hind-quarter! Maybe you two have never spent time among real people, and faults lie in everyone (except Lucky's Coach).

SE and Calm, I agree that every situation is different, and it is not always a bad thing. PArent involvement and as you say, due diligence are always needed in those situations. The point of my rant was to call out those who become obnoxious on the points of their daughter's abilities. It is never looked upon well in any circle you associate in. The bragger is always awkward and as soon as the conversation begins, you all want it to end.

Go GREEN

Am I what I think I am!

[luckyEPDad]

I was as cordial and positive as any man would be. My point was to say that maybe he should stop crying and bragging and focus in on reality. It was an over-the-top conversation.
LUCKY- You may be nice to the man's face but as soon as you walk away, your thoughts and opinions among your friends would have betrayed your delicate sensibilities. Don't portray yourself the saint and then become the sinner behind closed doors! Atleast I am up front and honest! The game is always played and decided on the ice. But don't get caught up in the Garden of Eden you live in. As always, you're opinion and fasination with your coaches borders on the obsessive stalker. I think you may have developed a hankering for your daughters hockey coach.

Definately no saint. Just a matter of not caring. Why should someone being proud of their kid get me all worked up. Is it tedious, sure, but harmless. Why let someone you don't really care for have so much power over you.

Now that I've responded I think I'll forget this ever happened.

[Bighead]

Hey Lucky.... I am curious what level AAA team you are referring to? What level did your daughter play at last year for association? As my daughter would say...just askin????

[D6 Girls Fan]

I think you must be some kind of bit, Greenie.

Is it harder to make the Varsity at a large school when you're an 8th or 9th grader? Damn right it is. So, those programs create very competetive U14 programs. Problem is, there are only 4 or 5 of them.

Talent is like water. It seeks its own level. In the better High School programs, there just aren't as many spots available.

[GREEN MONSTER]

[quote="D6 Girls Fan"]I think you must be some kind of bit, Greenie.

Is it harder to make the Varsity at a large school when you're an 8th or 9th grader? Damn right it is. So, those programs create very competetive U14 programs. Problem is, there are only 4 or 5 of them.

Talent is like water. It seeks its own level. In the better High School programs, there just aren't as many spots available.[/quote]

Of course it is harder, of course those associations put out better 14U teams. Again, my only point was to insite a conversation towards the inconsistency in telling a person that your child is some super star because she made varsity in an assocaition that cannot put out a strong, or any for that matter, 14U team. I appologize if I offended anyone, but isn't it a fairly common occurence? Have none of you experienced this?

[InigoMontoya]

GM, I completely agree with your assessment of Lucky's rose-colored glasses. However, I believe his point was that any time a parent leads with how great his kid is, you can discount the fact that the kid is great.

[luckyEPDad]

GM, I completely agree with your assessment of Lucky's rose-colored glasses. However, I believe his point was that any time a parent leads with how great his kid is, you can discount the fact that the kid is great.

Funny how context colors all. In the real world I'm considered a curmudgeon. In this virtual forum world full of pessimists and doomsayers I'm suddenly a Pollyanna.

No IM, my point is not that I automatically discount any claims of greatness. My point is that I don't care. It doesn't matter. All will be made clear on the ice.

Hey Inigo Montoya. You killed my online reputation. Prepare to die.

[luckyEPDad]

Of course it is harder, of course those associations put out better 14U teams. Again, my only point was to insite a conversation towards the inconsistency in telling a person that your child is some super star because she made varsity in an assocaition that cannot put out a strong, or any for that matter, 14U team. I appologize if I offended anyone, but isn't it a fairly common occurence? Have none of you experienced this?

You start by going all nuclear on someone who commits the sin of being a little too proud of their kid (like that isn't the most common thing at a hockey rink). You follow this up calling people hypocrites and butt kissers and sprinkle your post with insulting and inappropriate innuendo and are surprised that it may offend some? Mind if I punch you in the face and follow that up with a half hearted apology? C'mon GM, think. I've never had reason to question the civility of Edina hockey parents, but maybe I just haven't run across you.

[royals dad]

I have heard the 7th grade varsity story at the rink before, seems just as common to hear about a 3rd liner at a giant association who would be the top player anywhere else. Both parents are probably wrong (9 out of 10 times the parents of the real top players talk about something other than their daughter). Just based on the Advanced 15s this year some of those 7th grade varsity players are at the top and some are way off. There were 2 year varsity kids who made it to Rochester and some that didn't make Mankato.

I try not to hold it against a parent who is proud of their kid, I just might look for different bar stool next time.

[luckyEPDad]

I have heard the 7th grade varsity story at the rink before, seems just as common to hear about a 3rd liner at a giant association who would be the top player anywhere else. Both parents are probably wrong (9 out of 10 times the parents of the real top players talk about something other than their daughter). Just based on the Advanced 15s this year some of those 7th grade varsity players are at the top and some are way off. There were 2 year varsity kids who made it to Rochester and some that didn't make Mankato.

I try not to hold it against a parent who is proud of their kid, I just might look for different bar stool next time.

My favorite is the unfair advantage small associations have when they only field a "B" team. Fewer kids, fewer coaches, less money, poor facilities, many times more travel during the season. Yep, they have so many unfair "advantages".

As for a 3rd line player for a giant association being a starter in a smaller, that all depends on giant and small. In some cases ANY kid from ANY association would play in the top team of a small association that has trouble filling the roster. Last year's Edina, Centennial, Wayzata and EP U14 teams weren't carrying any dead weight. Being in the top 12 of 60 is the same percentage as being in the top 3 of 15.

[InigoMontoya]

My favorite is the unfair advantage small associations have when they only field a "B" team. Fewer kids, fewer coaches, less money, poor facilities, many times more travel during the season. Yep, they have so many unfair "advantages".

That's pretty insightful for a cake eater.

[Cut Above]

Am I what I think I am!!

Nothing too insightful here either. But when I first read your post my first reply to this was, "an ass?".

Then last night I heard it too. Small program, numbers issue, young skater, etc. "My daughter is playing HS this year blah blah blah". I must say, one does want to give a reflexive "shut up". Can't help it.

Now I'm one too.

[SS729]

and the fact that she hasn't been invited to any Selects tournaments or sought after to play on an upper level AAA squad is due to some misplaced nepotism and favoritism from coaches!

That is crap about select and AAA teams. They are just coaches looking to have certain kids on their team to play.. Look at the last Midwest selects 12u.. The north team was coached by a guy from the Northern Icebreakers and all the kids were out of that orginization. What a joke!!

If it bothers you that much that somebody elses kid is ahead of yours just move to a town with smaller numbers so your superstar can play..

[Hard water fan]

and the fact that she hasn't been invited to any Selects tournaments or sought after to play on an upper level AAA squad is due to some misplaced nepotism and favoritism from coaches!

That is crap about select and AAA teams. They are just coaches looking to have certain kids on their team to play.. Look at the last Midwest selects 12u.. The north team was coached by a guy from the Northern Icebreakers and all the kids were out of that orginization. What a joke!!

If it bothers you that much that somebody elses kid is ahead of yours just move to a town with smaller numbers so your superstar can play..

Disagree SS- my kid played on that team. Two kids were from the Icebreakers. The coach of the 98 North was late in getting a team together, therefore many of the kids that had been on that team in the past, including some from TRF, GF, etc. ended up going to Elites instead. He ended up having kids on the team who have never even played A hockey. That doesn't mean that I don't agree with your point, though. Picks are often political.

[luckyEPDad]

and the fact that she hasn't been invited to any Selects tournaments or sought after to play on an upper level AAA squad is due to some misplaced nepotism and favoritism from coaches!

That is crap about select and AAA teams. They are just coaches looking to have certain kids on their team to play.. Look at the last Midwest selects 12u.. The north team was coached by a guy from the Northern Icebreakers and all the kids were out of that orginization. What a joke!!

If it bothers you that much that somebody elses kid is ahead of yours just move to a town with smaller numbers so your superstar can play..

Disagree SS- my kid played on that team. Two kids were from the Icebreakers. The coach of the 98 North was late in getting a team together, therefore many of the kids that had been on that team in the past, including some from TRF, GF, etc. ended up going to Elites instead. He ended up having kids on the team who have never even played A hockey. That doesn't mean that I don't agree with your point, though. Picks are often political.

I don't see there being much politics involved. However, the process is often very personal. From what I've seen many (most?) girls playing AAA are recruited. Coaches are most likely to contact girls they are familiar with. Girls are most likely to try out for teams coached by someone they are familiar with. Geography is another big factor.

Politics and Political get tossed around this forum way too often. Most of the problems we label "political" are really "personal". Occasional a hockey parent will venture into the political realm and actively try to influence the selection process, but most of what people complain about is the result of personal bias and familiarity.

Come to think of it, most of what we complain about in politics is personal in nature too.

[Tigers33]

Folks...Hockey is political. Life is! Teach your children that a young age. Its more than just hockey, right? Oh wait...it probably isnt.

Who is affected more by the team a certain kid makes; the parent or the player? IALTO

[hockeydad2010]

Memo to all girls hockey parents: Let The Kids Develop In Youth Hockey!!

I do not want my 12 year old in a locker room full of 18 year olds talking about god knows what. Unless your daughter is a no doubt contributer to a quility varisty program(and this happens every 3-5 years), let them play at least 1 year of 14's so they can develop on the ice but more importantly off of the ice.

Take one look at Roseville's team this year. Guess what they did as 14's???? Won a state title, they didn't play JV or third line varsity so their dad could go to work and brag about little Suzie. So parent's, slow down and let your kids be kids. Last time I checked there is no NHL for girls....

[InigoMontoya]

Memo to all girls hockey parents: Let The Kids Develop In Youth Hockey!!

I do not want my 12 year old in a locker room full of 18 year olds talking about god knows what. Unless your daughter is a no doubt contributer to a quility varisty program(and this happens every 3-5 years), let them play at least 1 year of 14's so they can develop on the ice but more importantly off of the ice.

Take one look at Roseville's team this year. Guess what they did as 14's???? Won a state title, they didn't play JV or third line varsity so their dad could go to work and brag about little Suzie. So parent's, slow down and let your kids be kids. Last time I checked there is no NHL for girls....

What are there, about 500 girls playing 14U hockey? I think it's great that Roseville, Edina, etc. have the numbers to field a 14U team; a vast majority of associations do not have that luxury. Their 13 year olds will be in the locker room full of 18 year olds talking about God knows what. I'm sure those parents appreciate your advice, though.

[topshelfblue]

Memo to all girls hockey parents: Let The Kids Develop In Youth Hockey!!


Take one look at Roseville's team this year. Guess what they did as 14's???? Won a state title, they didn't play JV or third line varsity so their dad could go to work and brag about little Suzie. So parent's, slow down and let your kids be kids. Last time I checked there is no NHL for girls....

No sure what happened here. Time warp of some kind? Delayed email? I think Minnetonka won the state championship this year...over Roseville??...and for the second year in a row. 2010 email??

Anyway, regardless of that, to take it a step further to what hockeydad says, I would keep em at 14's is preferred. BUT... If you do have a 14 team(s), then play all the kids equally (actually from U8's through U14's). You will keep kids longer and you will have better contribution from ALL kids in the association. E.g. Two impact players in this years champ game from Tonka were 2nd year 14's last year and one was a 14 B player the year before. Go figure. If they had been sat in previous youth years, they would not even be there. We KNOW what teams typically shorten benches at youth and that is the more serious problem that leads to low numbers down the line in a program. One negative leads to another. Increase the numbers via good marketing and keep playing time equal to keep all the kids engaged from 8's to 14's. Let the stars take their talents to private programs if they so choose...but if you developed correctly, that impact should be minimal. Promise good development and equal playing time and kids will stick with programs and have some hope of playing high school some day.

In sum...if a HS team needs younger kids to fill a roster in order for the HS program to survive, then what is wrong with that provided the kid and parents are ok with it. Just do the right things with the rest of the kids from 8's to 14's and you'll have some happy kids left to keep the shelves full.

[old goalie85]

I hope my daughter plays highschool sooner because it's cheaper. I have 5 that play every little bit helps. When my oldest went to highschool [boy]hockey it was great.[$$$$$] Only have one daughter so it might be nice for her to give her brothers crap for a change.

[observer]

Not sure what happened here.

I think he's saying look at this year's Roseville high school varsity team and what were those seniors doing in 8th and 9th grade, 3-4 years ago.

14s is such a mixed bag it's very hard to generalize, Lots of peaks and valleys in numbers even in some large associations. One thing we do know is it's all based on your associations success recruiting 5 year olds.