Congrats Hornet Girls!

[areaman]

Cake Eater Tourney

First 10A
First 12A
Took top three spots at 12B

Fun tournament, some very good games.

[hockeyfan87]

Cake Eater Tourney

First 10A
First 12A
Took top three spots at 12B

Fun tournament, some very good games.

That is fantastic that they all played so well! It is unfortunate that they didn't go with two 12A teams this year with 5 teams at the 12U level.

[centennialhockey]

Based on that succes it sure sounds like they should have had two A teams, but I guess winning a U12A state championship is more important, like it was for us. Seems like that at most associations, winning before developing is the priority. I bet if the HS coach was involved they would want two A teams to develop the largest pool of girls.

[dynamo]

Centennialhockey, what does having two A teams have to do with developing a larger pool of girls???? Are you saying that if a girl makes a B team she is NOT going to develop into a good player?

[Lace'emUp]

Based on that succes it sure sounds like they should have had two A teams, but I guess winning a U12A state championship is more important, like it was for us. Seems like that at most associations, winning before developing is the priority. I bet if the HS coach was involved they would want two A teams to develop the largest pool of girls.

As we know, “Development” has many different factors and definitions. In my opinion, you need to group girls/kids together on a team that have similar abilities. It makes the coaches’ job easier, and it shrinks the skill separation between the players. It’s easier to develop technique (skating, speed, shooting, passing) and hockey strategy (positioning, back/fore checking) when you have similar abilities and experience on the same team. Good coaching is the difference maker – someone who can develop technique and strategy, but can also give confidence to the kids. Confidence also can come from winning (it’s not a bad thing).

Even as big as Edina is, to make two Equal A-team would involve having two coaches that have the same coaching philosophies, and will draft equally from the A-pool of players (don’t play favorites). Then, they need to be prepared to deal with larger skill/experience separation between the top players and the bubble players. Lastly, you hope the coaches can hold off the urge to over play their top line in close or big games. All the above is a tall order. The chances of players getting left behind is greater in this situation.

From looking at Edina’s teams, it appears they tried to separate their teams – Green was slight better than White, but White finally got them and won the championship; Gold is somewhere in the middle (still good); Black appears to be below the other teams. Centennial and Blaine did the same thing. Both had enough players at the 12U level to fill out 3 teams, and both felt that it was better to put groups of similarly skilled girls on each team. The difference is that Blaine decided to go with two A’s (one upper, and one lower), and Centennial decided to with two B’s (one upper, and one lower). Why, only the girl’s director from each association can really tell us why. Does it matter? No, not really.

[centennialhockey]

The issue at hand is when you have a wide spread of abilities. Girls will still develop on a B team. But usually on a B team you have 5 girls that will play throughout the summer and the rest do not or wish to take hockey as serious. Nothing wrong with that as hockey is not their focus and should not be. But for those players who do want hockey to be a focus are stuck trying to make a pass or catch a pass from a player who probably is not as skilled. Slows the game down, stops the flow. I am sure everyone agrees if you are with players who posses similiar abilities they should develop more.

Just an observation. If you are lucky to be in a community with five U12 teams, I am sure they could have supported two A teams versus spreading the top players between teams. If there were 3 top players on each B team that would be 12 girls for a second A team, just need two more and you have a team of girls with similiar abilities and goals for hockey development and probably a very good A team. I looked up District 6 U12B team scores and it appears they are pretty lopsided in Edina's favor at this level. Why? Are the top three girls always scoring? Are the U12 B games not as challenging for them? Probably a little of both. The scores show they could have had two A teams. The same site shows little competition for the A team. Beating Minnetonka 13-0? Is that a correct score? Why not have two A teams equally spread out. Would they each beat Minnetonka 13-0? Not only would these girls have to be challenged more, but I am sure they would learn more and develop more. When you have both A and B teams having this kind of success it demonstrates they could have had two balanced A teams. Anyone disagree

[hockey121330]

I bet if the HS coach was involved they would want two A teams to develop the largest pool of girls.

Our HS coach was adamant of putting 15 skaters on our A team but because of overall numbers our director didn't want B teams to have 12 skaters so our A team took 14 skaters even against our HS coaches opinion. Obviously some of you still have not taken your modules where ADM even talks about whenever you have the chance to make more than one A team, try to do that, for sure at 12U and below. I'm not going to bash Edina for their decisions because we don't know all the dynamics involved but with 5 teams at 12U in my humble opinion fielding another 12UA team certainly appears was do-able in Edina plus it should help the overall development of not only those players but the association and pool of players as a whole (not that Edina needs any more help with that). We are already discussing next year having two 12UA teams and one 12UB team in our association. Oh and if your 12UB team/coach is more worried about forecheck systems, breakouts and systems in general than skill development there is a problem there. They have to know how to skate well before they start worrying about catching a pass, shooting and stick handling, that doesn't mean you don't spend a little time on it. Am I saying B players won't develop into good players? Absolutely not but playing up against better players should most of the time make that player a better player because the speed of A vs B is one of the bigger differences. Now if you go upper team and lower team, then that lower team can expect a tougher road but they should develop IMO faster than a bubble player playing down a level.

[Lace'emUp]

CentennialHockey - As for your analysis of Edina's situation, we can only speculate that they might have 12 additional A-level girls. I'm not going to say you're wrong since I haven't seen any of their games. But as you have pointed out, and hockey121330 also stated, it appears they very well might be able to have 2 equal A-teams - or like Blaine, have upper and lower A-teams.

As for having 5 AAA players on a B-team, I'm assuming you're talking about a small association with only one B-team (or A-team for that matter). Initially there will be separation between the players, but what can you do? You hope that the less skilled players are pushed by the faster play of the more skilled players, and they get better as the year goes on.

In the end, I still support grouping similar skilled players together. That doesn't mean I think there should only be one A-team per association. Blaine is a good example of this (having upper and lower A-teams) and maybe Edina, Centennial (from their 'Red' B-team's 11 goal wins lately), REV, OMGHA, WBL, Stilwater, and many other multi-B-team associations will look at that as an example - they might follow in their footsteps.

[Gymnast]

So, let me get this ...if Edina wins, they need more higher level teams to prove they know how to develop hockey players.

Taking the top 3-5 off B teams will make a good A team

There seems to be a history of coaches with SHORT benches.

Edina only cares about a state championship " like centennial" last year.

I'm a parent of a B/A player. Every other year, tryouts are difficult and to this point prove to be life lessons for her. We finally have a coaching staff that understands the word so over used. They ROLL all 3 lines like clock work and run practice like those girls have never skated in their lives.

The Minnetonka game was an oddity where all went Edina way (13-0). I watched that game and it just seemed strange..everything went in! They played
to a 3-2 during the Cake.
Big picture.. A bunch of girls playing hockey in Edina. You want participation
or Success? Can't have both? Yes you can.

If you take the top 3 off the B you loose the majority of girls next year because no wins.
Some girls play on an A2 team and get crushed....they still play but question it.
The perfect storm..
If the PARENTS want to play on an A team, tell your kids to get better at playing hockey which is life lesson #2... behind "not everyone gets a present at the birthday party"
The A team had a 9 goal differential in 4 games....hardly dominant. Oh, and the last time Edina won the Cake Eater??? Anyone know?
The last time Edina won state at 12A??? Anyone know??
My kids B coach could coach any association A team. Happy to be here.

[C-dad]

So they should do with 12U like they did for 14U? Two unbalanced A teams and Green went 2-1-1 and White went 0-4 in the Cakeater. I'm sure that would make the other teams happy, but not sure it's best for the development of the Edina girls. I understand the 12U group may be stronger than the 14U, but doubt it's all that different.

[NotEasyBeingGreen]

Edina's 14 Group WAS one of the strongest, but we lost 7 A kids to various HS programs. Had that group stayed, the 14s would probably be the best in the state.

[peterthepuck]

From all the banter on this post it is a simple fix - 2 U12 balanced A teams. Both would do pretty well from what people are saying here

[GumpFace]

From all the banter on this post it is a simple fix - 2 U12 balanced A teams. Both would do pretty well from what people are saying here

Balance is the key. Upper/Lower is never a good idea -- at any level. If the teams play the same competition they have to be balanced. Maybe girls need to go to a B1/B2 situation like the boys have -- at least in the metro area where the numbers could support it.

[RealisticRonnie]

I think the way I would sum it up is as follows:
The Edina girls program is as strong as ever! They won the 12's and 10's at the Cake Eater! The girls and families are committed to being good hockey players. They have obviously worked hard and therefore they deserve the accolades they are getting.

My advice for the "people" who don't like it....WORK HARDER or PLAY BASKETBALL! Obama might run the country, but in Minnesota Hockey the rules aren't the same and he is NOT in charge. Edina has hockey tradition and the expectation is to win! If Edina had two equal A teams then these same "people" would just be complaining about the next program that stepped up and dominated. Please remind me, but didn't everyone hate Centennial last year?

Development is the term everyone uses and, quite frankly, it is a bunch of mumbo jumbo. I'd argue a borderline A player who doesn't make the A team in Edina can develop just as much as any girl on the Edina A team. She can play B hockey and learn how to score. Every true girls hockey fan knows the game could use as many goal scorers as possible. She can play B's and dominate her opponent; she can be a leader and develop more confidence in her game. All of these things would only help her in her "development".

I would also argue that just because your daughter is on the A team doesn't mean she is getting the best coaching. There are tons of great hockey coaches that coach B teams. Who knows if the A coach in Edina or (any other dominate program) is any good anyways. I hear parents complain about A coaches more often than I hear complaints about the B coaches.

The bottom line is stop the chitter chatter about development and whining about this or that. The players that want to be good will be good in the end...A, B or whatever team.

For anybody to tell Edina or any other program for that matter to have two equal A teams is full of it. They obviously don't know that they play for a 12U State Champion. I believe you are taking an experience away from a kid winning a State Championship when you do this, don't the kids who have worked the hardest to be the best deserve a once in a lifetime opportunity to be the best.

It hurts me to say this, but get over it! This winter the Edina girls are good. Next year, it will be Minnetonka or Lakeville or Blaine or Eden Prairie or.....

[areaman]

"Obama might run the country"

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but whatever.

Regarding the assessment of the strength of the Edina 12B teams. I have a hard time believing the association would weight them. Teams may have been stacked by some parent "coach" coalitions, but not by anything else. All four teams probably could have won or lost on any given day. Some coaches chose to play a very, very, very short bench during the tournament. Other coaches didn't.

[James B Mcbain]

Your hard over the summer girls is paying off. Congratulations to the Hornets.

[greenpuckhead]

In the end”, it is best to have one "A" team in the Edina Hockey Association program based on development for the "B"'s.” Can I puke NOW EHA board? The Edina U12A team is a built team and several players will move onto BSM, Viz, Blake, and Breck and so on when the season is over and after several players have been recruited to play. Put the trophy in the display case EHA. The best player was forced out and is playing at Breck as a 7th grader. Yes, they are talented way beyond any team I have come across in 25 years. The 4 B teams are equally balanced as best can be. B1 for girls is the answer for the metro and even outstates teams but will take Minnesota Hockey to enforce. There are too many associations not fielding an "A" team in order to potentially win a state title at the “B” level. Even if 2 Edina “B” teams make it state, chances are they will take 3rd or 5th again. Bottom line, the high school will lose more than half of these players to private schools and the “B” players will be a year behind in development because very short sighted coaches are large ego board members.

[the puck is green]

Greenpuckhead, are you saying there were some:

[b]shenanigans [/b]plural of she·nan·i·gans (Noun)Noun: 1.Secret or dishonest activity or maneuvering. 2.Silly or high-spirited behavior; mischief.

regarding these teams and how they were made. Is it true there were "invite" only practices conducted before try-outs occurred for 12U and it just so happened these were all the same girls that made the team?

Did the board know or is the board made up of the same people/coaches who happen to have girls playing at this level? Interested minds would love to know. Shine up the trophy case, the championship is on its way unless all the girls leave mid year like the 7th grade varisty player and move onto the Penticton Vees

[demongoed]

Gymnast, an Edina girls hockey parent said it best: "If you take the top 3 off the B you lose the majority of girls because no wins." NotEasyBeingGreen chimes in, "They had a 12A2 team a couple of years ago, and from what we've been told, it wasn't a positive experience for those kids. Didn't win much."

Anyone looking for real redeeming reasons why Edina won't field 2 A teams at the 12U level won't find them. It's obvious from the insiders' comments above that the only reason they won't do it is because they want to win, both at the A and B levels, and they won't let anything, including additional player development, get in the way. Girls quit in Edina when they don't win? Really? Well then the coaches and association are focusing on the wrong thing in my opinion. There are plenty of associations that field teams with losing records, and the kids come back year after year. They must also have an in with the schedulers in their district too. They succesfully made sure that they only have to play each other once, while most of the other teams have to play each Edina B team twice--half their league schedule. If they are going to monopolize D6 with their A2 teams, they could at least have the decency not to require all the other teams to travel to Braemar so often.

[Bighead]

The Puck is Green & green puck......sniper....whateverrr. Oh how we love the one we post wonders! Edina has one A team and it is very good! Move on! They have the talent and play to win...luv it!

[blondegirlsdad]

Couple things: Having played for those Edina 12A coaches last year, I can only vouch for their character and desire to make every girl better. The idea that they created the team just to win is ludicrous.

Last year there were pre-season skates, and not all those kids made the team, and not everyone on the team was at those skates. These are not exclusionary people. I'm sure they took the top 15 kids.

On the other topic, our girl played on that A2 team a couple years ago, and it wasn't the winning or lack of winning that colored the experience.

And I'll agree that there are plenty of great coaches at both A & B levels in Edina. Our bubble kid played both A & B, and the confidence she gained at B was instrumental in her continued growth at A.

And on the other topic, yes, kids leave the EHA and play for other schools when the time comes. Some leave to play hockey, some are recruited by Edina, some are ignored by Edina, some leave to play other sports, some like the academics and class size elsewhere, some just want their kid to play earlier and save 1000 bucks. Some stay. There isn't one reason, and the EHA shouldn't be worried about it. Given the extremely opinionated nature of its consituency, they make the right decisions 99% of the time. The association stocks not only the HS, which is at or near the top of the rankings every year, they also stock four or five other high schools. There are more girls playing hockey in Edina than any other association, they must be doing something right.

[hockeyfan87]

If we look strictly at the numbers, it would seem logical that Edina could support two 12UA team.

Take an average sized association for example. They might have 24 - 30 skaters at the 12U level. They decide to field an "A" team and a 'B" team. That says that 50% of their players are at the "A" level. Maybe they are, or maybe they aren't.

If you take a larger association with 36 to 45 skaters, they would form three teams, likely one "A" team and two "B" teams. That is still roughly 33% of their skaters playing at the "A" level.

An even larger association, with 52 to 60 skaters, they would likely form four 12U teams, worse case they have one 12UA team, that is 25% of their players playing at the "A" level.

Then you look at Edina, 65 to 75 skaters on five 12U teams. Less than 20% of their players are playing at the "A" level. Is anyone going to seriously believe that Edina only has 13-15 "A" players when there are roughly 70 skaters at the 12U level???

I don't think you would have had to balance the two teams to have two very good "A" teams. The top 13-15 on an upper A team and the next 13-15 on the lower A team. I still think that lower A team would win well over 20 games, maybe more.

In the end you would have had 26 to 30 girls playing at the "A" level. In addition, on the other three 12B teams, bubble players would have had to step up and become the team leaders, and would have had even a better chance to develop!

I just think it was a missed opportunity. When Edina 12B teams are beating your average 12B team by double digit scores, nobody is benefiting.

[Bluewhitefan]

In the end”, it is best to have one "A" team in the Edina Hockey Association program based on development for the "B"'s.” Can I puke NOW EHA board? The Edina U12A team is a built team and several players will move onto BSM, Viz, Blake, and Breck and so on when the season is over and after several players have been recruited to play. Put the trophy in the display case EHA. The best player was forced out and is playing at Breck as a 7th grader. Yes, they are talented way beyond any team I have come across in 25 years. The 4 B teams are equally balanced as best can be. B1 for girls is the answer for the metro and even outstates teams but will take Minnesota Hockey to enforce. There are too many associations not fielding an "A" team in order to potentially win a state title at the “B” level. Even if 2 Edina “B” teams make it state, chances are they will take 3rd or 5th again. Bottom line, the high school will lose more than half of these players to private schools and the “B” players will be a year behind in development because very short sighted coaches are large ego board members.

The best player went to Breck? Forced out? How so? Not quite true. I think you're talking about the family that hed their kid start the tryouts with PWs, realize she wasn't going to make a very mediocre PWA team, switch back to girls, make the A team and then leave to go play for Breck as a 7th grader. There is some outstanding parenting - we don't like the coach so we're going to send our 12 year old to hang out with 16 year olds. My gusess is that they might have done two A teams, but with so many of these types of parents they were worried that everyone would quit - A players because they don't want to play with the lowly part time players, and B players because the teams would have been terrible.

[zboni99]

gymnast

3 years ago Edina 12A won state.
2 years ago the 12A state champs that moved up to 14A won state.
1 year ago it was a wild finish for the 14's, where they won consolation.

[James B Mcbain]

gymnast

3 years ago Edina 12A won state.
2 years ago the 12A state champs that moved up to 14A won state.
1 year ago it was a wild finish for the 14's, where they won consolation.

Another testament to the hard work of the girls, coaches and parents. Look forward to seeing you again in the summer.