The state now gets to see how MSHSL dropped the ball...

[headsup]

Hockey day in MN is a perfect means to show the state why the MNSHS league made a tremendous error on their rule changes.

I've watched 8 full games since the rule change. I have consistantly seen the following in all games:
- Play starts off a lot less physical than in the past.
- Refs make a gratuitous call to set the tone early.
- Refs are averaging a little over 1 major call per game.
- After the first 1-2 calls, the late periods are back to unsafe hockey.
- Players are getting away with just as many head shots in the 2nd and 3rd periods.

We had the rules in place to enforce safe play... now they've changed the game entirely.

MNSHSL should have placed more accountability on refs and coaches.

We all want the game to be safer. More reason to make sure its done right - FOR 3 PERIODS.

[Hscout000]

I totally agree.

The High School League has ruined the game. The major penalty is too harsh a double minor would be more appropriate. In addition refs seem to make these calls way more often then before the rule change.

The biggest problem, however is that I believe many juniors and sophomores will do the smart thing and move to the USHL and other junior leagues so they can play the type of hockey they need to in college and beyond. The high school game is removing hitting and turning to a skill league. Yet college hockey has not changed which is what all high school kids dream of playing.

[headsup]

As a parent of a HS AA junior, I want the game to be safer. I also see tremendous growth in the USHL as a result of the wrong approach MSHSL took.

With all the video we have on HS hockey... I would have used the rules that were in place - then issued supspensions and misconducts for offenders.

For refs chosing to swallow the whistle - suspensions.

For Coaches - suspensions as well.

Force everyone to do their job consistently for 3 periods or temporarily lose that privelege.

[Gopher Blog]

The biggest problem, however is that I believe many juniors and sophomores will do the smart thing and move to the USHL and other junior leagues so they can play the type of hockey they need to in college and beyond. The high school game is removing hitting and turning to a skill league. Yet college hockey has not changed which is what all high school kids dream of playing.

I 100% agree. You can't expect top kids to stick around and play a style of play that the higher levels don't follow suit with. Top players have goals beyond HS hockey and they are going to do what they can to get there.

While I am not saying the way the game is called will create a mass exodus of players, I do think it will make the choice easier for those kids who are on the fence and may have been more inclined to stay in HS hockey before.

I'm all for eliminating hits from behind. But they've gone too far with the penalties so far. Most of these majors that I have seen have been weak.

[headsup]

I'm in full agreement Goph.

The only thing I would add about the latest major calls:

They are weak early, then absent late.

[east hockey]

The State League dropping the ball on something? Shocked, I tell you. Shocked!!!

Other than that the League has a history of inept decisions, why should I be surprised?

Agree with the points made by others so far.

Lee

[Weekend_Warrior]

I can understand the angst over a lot of questionable calls. But you also have to understand that the league and the refs are trying to send a message to play smarter and tone it down. All questionable calls may be made for the safety of the kids. Maybe if they had video replays at every high school game it would be different. But they don't, so the refs are left to call anything that falls into that grey area.

Give it time. Refs will eventually lighten up. The spotlight is just on them right now due to the recent circumstances.

[north_bear]

Ruined the game? Haha...Relax people, its a move to protect young players. Yes the refs will need an adjustment period as will the players to get used to the new rules. Checking will always be a part of hockey but there is a time and place for it. Not a defenseless skater along the boards with his back to the charging skater.

[Iranger33]

And the acting begins, today I got to see a kid putt on a acting display to draw the major penalty for head contact. Now the play was a penalty but it was not head contact but a slashing penalty too the goalie and the goalie played it up and Goff the five minute penalty called.

[luvuvgame]

I just think that the MSHSL blew with this one. They reacted based on emotion with this one and didn't do high school hockey's future any favors. I totally agree with the point that players who have the chance will move on to other opportunities. As someone who watches players for teams in three different junior leagues, I can promise you this very issue will be used to encourage players to choose the junior route. I've had 2 GM's tell me as much. When you factor in the limited schedule, the shorter period lengths & now the possibility that a penalty can put you in the stands for 2 games? Believe me, it's already on their minds.

The problem is instead of empowering officials, in my opinion the MSHSL has actually handcuffed officials. Having to sit for a total 12 minutes for a check from behind is a pretty substantial price to pay, and with the referee having the ability to make an egregious call a major. I personally would have no problem with following the college model in this instance. The biggest problem is making the boarding call a major. I have seen thousands of HS hockey games, I would guess (based on my own observation, no statistical proof) that close to 75% of checks from behinds are created by the player with the puck making some kind of change of direction before the hit is delivered. Does that totally excuse the the player committing the infraction? No, of course not, but at that same time should it be to the tune of a major penalty? Again, no. The reality is, the boarding call was a good tool for the ref to send a message to the player to be careful and at the same time keep what happened on the rink in perspective.

The other thing I don't think people are taking into consideration is the effects the "New Standards of Play" have had on hockey today. To me it is simple cause & effect. You eliminate the obstruction in the play, you increase the speed of the play. If you increase the speed you lose control & when add ice to that equation it is really a wonder there aren't more of these sad & tragic incidents. Now I'm not saying the clutch & grab needs to be as bad as it was, but when players were allowed to set minor picks for their teammates, that created the time and space to not only allow for the puck carrier to avoid dangerous contact but it also gave the defending player that extra split second to avoid delivering the hit. The other example where this applies & it is also an area where these infractions are taking place and that is in a dump & chase scenario. Before the new standards were put in place, while one defenseman was retrieving the puck his/her partner was doing their best to hold up that forechecker. In today's hockey, that is a penalty, today that forechecker is allowed to not only attack unobstructed, they are actually able to increase speed on the rush. I don't know about any of you but the first rule of forechecking I learned was "first man takes the body"! So tell me how the new standard of play could do anything but increase the chances of these violent hits. Now there is absolutely zero tolarence toward any obstruction and so that time & space is none existent.

Lastly, what happened to Jack Jablonski is sad & tragic. No family should ever have to experience such a horrific thing. With that being said, everyone who plays a contact sport takes on a certain amount of inherit risk. This was an accident & to try and make changes based on the emotions of a situation very rarely ends up being the right decision in the end. The reality of this is, even if you eliminated contact totally from hockey, the potential for this sort of thing to happen is still a reality.

[HappyHockeyFan]

There is one logical, sensible reply in all these posts and that is north_bear, the rest are ridiculous, you all talk about the league overreacting, how about yourselves. We wont truly see the effects of these changes, until probably this time next year. Checking from behind is still checking from behind and head contact is still head contact and boarding is still boarding but obviously coaches and players hadnt got the message clearly about how dangerous these types of checks can be. Nothing has changed but the consequences for delivering these types of hits. I wonder how many of you would still be criticizing the MSHSL if it was your son or daughter you saw laying on ice motionless after one of these hits, you all come off as a bunch of selfish hypocrites. Yes the changes will change the game, to a better one and a safer one. Will it prevent all injuries, no of course not, but if it saves one kid from a serious concussion or being paralyzed then the new rules will have done their job. I have seen two games since the new rules came into place and I rather enjoyed seeing the kids back off a bit along the boards and it definetly did NOT changed the excitement of the game. In each game I saw there was one major penalty called, in one game the team with the power play did not score and in the other there was a ppg and a shg. I commend the MSHLS for doing the RIGHT thing....Nuff said

[luvuvgame]

There is one logical, sensible reply in all these posts and that is north_bear, the rest are ridiculous, you all talk about the league overreacting, how about yourselves. We wont truly see the effects of these changes, until probably this time next year. Checking from behind is still checking from behind and head contact is still head contact and boarding is still boarding but obviously coaches and players hadnt got the message clearly about how dangerous these types of checks can be. Nothing has changed but the consequences for delivering these types of hits. I wonder how many of you would still be criticizing the MSHSL if it was your son or daughter you saw laying on ice motionless after one of these hits, you all come off as a bunch of selfish hypocrites. Yes the changes will change the game, to a better one and a safer one. Will it prevent all injuries, no of course not, but if it saves one kid from a serious concussion or being paralyzed then the new rules will have done their job. I have seen two games since the new rules came into place and I rather enjoyed seeing the kids back off a bit along the boards and it definetly did NOT changed the excitement of the game. In each game I saw there was one major penalty called, in one game the team with the power play did not score and in the other there was a ppg and a shg. I commend the MSHLS for doing the RIGHT thing....Nuff said

Tough to argue that a parent would be anything but devastated by such a terrible thing. However, that is not the discussion. Again, you are bringing emotion to it. I don't think that if you disagree with the steps the HS league has taken, that you can assume we don't care if kids get hurt. I care a great deal about the safety of the kids. I can't speak for the others on this board but as someone who works with young people on a daily basis it is actually the last thing I want to see. With that being said, I believe the increased consequences are a mistake and will contribute to the demise of mn HS hockey. I'm not a fortune teller I don't know if I'll be right, but based on my experiences of 30 years involved in hockey I know which way I'd bet. You see it as making the game safer, I see it as changing the game as we know it. No college, jr. or HS coach is going to agree with me openly because of the way people feel about this incident right now. Emotions are too high, but I bet more feel the way I do then you do. Why is that important? Because, a lot of these kids are playing HS hockey as an avenue of preparation to attain that level. Finally, what we are doing here on this forum is apples & oranges compared to the steps the MSHSL took. We aren't over reacting by having a discussion, over reacting is making change without having a discussion.

[north_bear]

Correct me if I'm wrong but can't checking from behind and boarding be called in college and the NHL with a major penalty and game misconduct assessed?

I think contact to the head is only a minor penalty.

Anyway, the point is that these types of hits have been deemed dangerous and unneccesary in college and the NHL. I don't see how increasing the penalties for a high school player disrupts his path to success. Its not a bad thing to learn a little discipline on the ice.

[headsup]

HappyHockeyFan:

Your statement:
I wonder how many of you would still be criticizing the MSHSL if it was your son or daughter you saw laying on ice motionless after one of these hits, you all come off as a bunch of selfish hypocrites.

try reading the original statement on this topic once again. My answer to your statement above is: I WOULD!

Old rules, new rules, my kid, your kid aside... I can honestly say I would want the game to be safer for 3 periods rather than just one for a span of a few months.

TODAY:
1) The refs either have to enforce the new rules early, or
2) totally swallow the whistle late.

BOTH are happening based on observing 8 games. What kind of message are we teaching now???

MSHSL made a decision based on emotion, not on common sense.

Re-read the posts.... a change WAS needed. We want one that WORKS!!! With accountability and consistency.

[HShockeywatcher]

I've watched 8 full games since the rule change. I have consistantly seen the following in all games:
- Play starts off a lot less physical than in the past.

What part of the rule changes say not to play physical hockey?

- Refs make a gratuitous call to set the tone early.

Is this "gratuitous call" an incorrect call?

- Refs are averaging a little over 1 major call per game.

Based on the amount of boarding, checking from behind and head contact that happened before, if this is only happening 1 or 2 times a game, I would call that a very positive change.

- After the first 1-2 calls, the late periods are back to unsafe hockey.

Why is this? Are refs not being consistent?

- Players are getting away with just as many head shots in the 2nd and 3rd periods.

We had the rules in place to enforce safe play... now they've changed the game entirely.

M[N]SHSL should have placed more accountability on refs and coaches.

We all want the game to be safer. More reason to make sure its done right - FOR 3 PERIODS.

Again, are the refs not being consistent?


I don't disagree with any of the points you make aside from the assertion that it was the MSHSL somehow dropping the ball. They simply made changes that [after a week] are taking much of the danger out of the game, or punishing those who are creating it. The top end players are still scoring and playing good hockey.

No part of the changes say not to be physical.

Do they refs need to do a better job of calling games the same in the 3rd as the they do in the 1st? Probably. To me, that's all I take from what you have listed.

[WoodStickSniper]

yes the new rules are taking away from the game and all it is is special teams hockey takes away from the grinding of 5 on 5 and a very weak checking from behind call completly took us out of a fun game

[mulefarm]

We hear there was a meeting to determine the change in the rules a couple of weeks ago. Does anybody really know who was involved in that meeting? What coaches, refs, administrators? My guess is very few hockey people were involved, which is consistent with how thw MSHSL operates!

[headsup]

Do they refs need to do a better job of calling games the same in the 3rd as the they do in the 1st?

HSHockeywatcher -

This is my whole argument. There were rules in place to make the game safer. Even with more strict rules, if the refs are only going to send a message early then slack off late... what are we accomplishing? The kids aren't seeing consistency - so they will continue to push the envelope as far as they can.

Accountability (coaches, players, and refs) should have been the first change. Plenty of video these days to back-up suspensions - even for refs.

Changing the rules should have been the second - after much research (usually in the offseason).

Between 12/30 (severity of JJ's injury known to the public) and 1/9 (HS rule change) - I saw a very dramatic change in how the game was played and called knowing the culture surrounding the injury. This happened without MSHSL changes and application of rules that were already in place.

We all applaud action in the event of a traumatic situation. Whether it is the appropriate action is a whole different debate.

I'm all for safety. My hope is for long-term effective changes instead of the usual inconsistent hockey rule changes that are only followed through portions of the game.

[blindref]

I think one area that no one is talking about is hockey's future in Minnesota.
Take a look at squirt numbers are at five to ten years from now and my guess is they will be down.
Part of it is economics, but if you don't think parents of young hockey players (ages four to eight) aren't talking about what happened to Jabloski, you're kidding yourself.
I think a number of parents who probably don't realize the injury was a freak accident and will seriously question whether it's worth the risk for their kid.
Mite players are the lifeblood of all associations, it's a simple math thing.
If you have two low recruiting years in a row, you'll see the results for that age group for the next several years.

If the MSHSL does nothing after a catastrophic injury that is well known, the sport will suffer long term effects.

I'm not saying that all the choices were correct, but they couldn't afford to sit on their hands.
The real test will be at this year's State Tournament to see if League allows the referees to continue to enforce the new standards or if it's business as usual. Traditionally the top teams don't take a lot of penalties because they are more disciplined, but will Edina go on a five minute kill in a semi final game?

[hipcheck]

Ref makes the call or not! Minor or Major Penalty!

Bottom line is the kid laying on the ice has already been hit!

The players need to be properly instructed on their checking techniques!

[HShockeywatcher]

yes the new rules are taking away from the game and all it is is special teams hockey takes away from the grinding of 5 on 5 and a very weak checking from behind call completly took us out of a fun game

Wouldn't that then be the kids who are checking from behind, boarding or making head contact who are "taking away from the game?"

[Bronc]

yes the new rules are taking away from the game and all it is is special teams hockey takes away from the grinding of 5 on 5 and a very weak checking from behind call completly took us out of a fun game

Wouldn't that then be the kids who are checking from behind, boarding or making head contact who are "taking away from the game?"

No because the calls that are being made more oft than not are not true boards, head contacts, even hits from behind (a player gliding up and pinning aplayer against the board who turned his back to them is not a hit in the back or dangerous play, but now coaches are even teaching the kids if anyone touches drop to your knees and draw a penalty at which point the ref has no choice but to call).

[HShockeywatcher]

yes the new rules are taking away from the game and all it is is special teams hockey takes away from the grinding of 5 on 5 and a very weak checking from behind call completly took us out of a fun game

Wouldn't that then be the kids who are checking from behind, boarding or making head contact who are "taking away from the game?"

No because the calls that are being made more oft than not are not true boards, head contacts, even hits from behind (a player gliding up and pinning aplayer against the board who turned his back to them is not a hit in the back or dangerous play, but now coaches are even teaching the kids if anyone touches drop to your knees and draw a penalty at which point the ref has no choice but to call).

Are you saying that refs are calling boarding when contact wasn't made that sent a player into the boards, head contact when contact wasn't made or a hit from behind when a player wasn't touched in the back?
We are not here to determine if a play was dangerous or not, simply if the infraction happened. I don't know that there is a safe way to check someone from behind.

So, sure, things that weren't called before are being called now (which is a good thing) but it still remains that for the most part if you don't do anything wrong, you won't go to the box. There is some acting that is being discussed and things that are borderline that will likely be discussed, but I would personally prefer that there are bad calls in the interest of safety instead of the bad no-calls we had before in the interest of "letting them play."

Is it perfect? Far from it but I don't think you can criticize to the point people are this much. If the MSHSL is making this change, I hope they are going to follow up to make sure it works out the way they wanted it to.

[headsup]

I'm talking about non calls late in the games for clear violations AND weak calls early that will contradict the later (non) calls.

New rules or old rules... nothing works without consistency.

[icehornet]

I'm talking about non calls late in the games for clear violations AND weak calls early that will contradict the later (non) calls.

New rules or old rules... nothing works without consistency.

Yes, the rules need to be called consistently but you are calling the changes a failure after 8 games that you've seen? Your issue with consistency is very different than many other posters in this thread that think this is going to completely "change the game." Really? The sky is falling because the MSHSL wants to make the game safer by handing out a stiffer consequence for the most dangerous hits in the game? Is the point of the game still scoring goals or is it landing the biggest hit? There are no "new rules" the existing rules have been adapted to try discouraging players even more than in the past. If any of you really think this is going to hold kids back that aspire to play at higher levels you're kidding yourselves.