Head Contact

[dangle_snipe]

Any One else notice that refs are not calling head contact in the Tourney?

How can an elbow not be head contact?

Just wondering if any one else is noticing it?

[sachishi4]

Any One else notice that refs are not calling head contact in the Tourney?

How can an elbow not be head contact?

Just wondering if any one else is noticing it?

No ref wants to be the reason for why a game turns out the way it does. Its going to have to be a very obvious penalty to get called

[dangle_snipe]

I agree but the eagan "elbowing" penalty looked pretty tect book to me.

Just think its funny!

[patience]

I knew this was going to happen. The Refs called everything after the new rules went into effect. Now they are calling the game differently. Just be consistant on your calls. Or go back to the old rules..

[Sats81]

Any One else notice that refs are not calling head contact in the Tourney?

How can an elbow not be head contact?

Just wondering if any one else is noticing it?

No ref wants to be the reason for why a game turns out the way it does. Its going to have to be a very obvious penalty to get called

Thank you.

[Sats81]

Any One else notice that refs are not calling head contact in the Tourney?

How can an elbow not be head contact?

Just wondering if any one else is noticing it?

No ref wants to be the reason for why a game turns out the way it does. Its going to have to be a very obvious penalty to get called

Thank you.

[noflybys]

The hit on Moore from Nanne.. Boarding call all the way 4 weeks ago.. Don't call it different now!

Any One else notice that refs are not calling head contact in the Tourney?

How can an elbow not be head contact?

Just wondering if any one else is noticing it?

No ref wants to be the reason for why a game turns out the way it does. Its going to have to be a very obvious penalty to get called

Thank you.

[dangle_snipe]

[quote="noflybys"]The hit on Moore from Nanne.. Boarding call all the way 4 weeks ago.. Don't call it different now!
[quote="Sats81"]


So much for player safety.......

[nahc]

Glad to see this post since I thought it was just me noticing the same thing. There had to be at least 6-7 hits that, during the regular season, would have been called in a heartbeat as major 5 minute penalties. A total joke that they are not being called now.......None of the hits were vicious or dirty but still.........a penalty called the first minute of the first game of the season is a penalty in the final minute of the state playoffs.....don't swallow the whistles.........

[sterfry9]

I havent been able to get out to a rink to watch any of the games after these new rules have been in play, but with all the talk about how often these 5min PP occur ive been a little surprised at the lack of the 5min PPs...is it just me or have they not been getting called as much as they usually have been in the reg season vs state tourney?

[DKS1962]

The refs are not calling the penalty as the rule is written therefore no 5 minute penalties.

Jump on the safety bandwagon for a couple weeks and back to business as Usual.

[supertacks]

I think MSHL made a big mistake going with automatic 5 min for head contact. This put officials in a huge box given the frequency of hits to head. I think what they should have done instead is left it a 2 min, however, if hit is especially malicious, let the official increase to 5 min major.

[deacon64]

I think MSHL made a big mistake going with automatic 5 min for head contact. This put officials in a huge box given the frequency of hits to head. I think what they should have done instead is left it a 2 min, however, if hit is especially malicious, let the official increase to 5 min major.

Exactly, instead of changing rules, reinforce to refs if malicious 5 minutes. Now refs call boarding, check from behind and head contact something different at times because they feel is only a 2 minute penalty.

[The Enlightened One]

OK, to clear all of this up before hand. I felt and do still feel terrible about what happened to Jack J. I would not wish that on anybody. However, at the time, I took the approach that bad things happen to nice people. Does not make it right but it happens.

This whole deal should be a lesson to all of us in our personal, sporting and professional lives about over reacting. The sport needed to be cleaned up a little bit from the stand point of calling the penalties when they happen. No doubt about it, I still think they do. But the high school league made it worse not better. Now they have taken a major safety issue (head contact) and turned it into something that has to be ignored so that the refs do not run the risk of being accused of ruining the game. Last night there were several times that boarding and or head contact should have been called and you could see the refs think about it. Perfect example was that hit behind the net by the Edina kid on the BSM kid. In November that would have sent the Edina kid to the box for 2 minutes, last night the ref had to think about it and then cooked up an excuse to cover his butt. There are others like the head contact penalty that the Edina kid put on the BSM kid.

The game got worse not better from a control stand point.


What needs to happen is this:

The rules need to be altered back to before Jack's injury and then they need to be enforced vigorously. Refs need to be told point blank in small words that they WILL call stuff when it happens. Do NOT "let them play" when a penalty happens, call it.

Checking needs to be put back into PeeWees (not the right forum level I know but we all cruise both so....) so that we can start there by enforcing the rules. Make Head Contact a priority like the NFL did. Come out with videos to show what you mean. Hold coaching seminars at the district levels to tell them and all of the coaches that this is it. Make the kids (high school and youth) watch a short video and then sign another code of conduct saying that "I will not hit a kid in the head and understand that if/when I do I am in huge trouble". Make the parents sign the form too. Make the REFS sign the form and monitor them and (this is the nasty part) get rid of the refs who will not make that call. This can be controlled but we have to make them clean it up or they won't.

How about instead of Jack's legacy to the sport being that we made the game more unsafe by using his name and number to push through rules that nobody is willing to enforce that instead we use his name and number and do positive. A new Jack's rule for the books. "Under NO circumstances intentional or accidental shall you contact another kid's head. YOU will do all in your power to not hit his head or cause him to go head first into the boards and his head on them. If you hit his head or cause him to hit his head YOU will be held responsible and WILL go to the box as our refs WILL call it." sign here and do not complain when you get sent to the box for it.

[rudy]

On Feb. 3, I wrote the following, which now seems prophetic given the "charging" call against Edina that looked more like boarding and the "elbowing" call against BSM that looked more like head contact. These are two examples of the unintended consequence that the MSHSL created with their hasty and ill-informed adjustments to the HS penalties. And for referees to reject the new penalty consequences only leaves the players and coaches at a loss about the game they are participating in:

Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:15 pm Post subject: penalties

Several posters have said that players and referees will adjust to the new consequences for certain penalties. The referees certainly are. At times, they are using certain minors so they don't have to inflict a major on a player that did indeed commit that major under the new enforcement.

Example: Edina player Thursday night leads with his hands and hits an opponent in the head straight on with only a modest amount of force. Rather than head contact -- which it clearly was -- the official calls elbowing, even though an elbow was never involved.

I've also seen similar minors -- x-checking, roughing, etc. -- used to avoid calling a more consequential major.

Every time someone tries to fix something there is an unintended consequence. That is particularly true when decisions are made in haste, without data and without meaningful input from those most affected.

Maybe there is a tolerance for this consequence. In the meantime, players and coaches are left to wonder what actions constitute what consequence.

[dangle_snipe]

Still waiting for someone to tell me how an elbow isnt head contact.....

[blueliner2day]

Still waiting for someone to tell me how an elbow isnt head contact.....

You need someone to tell you that? maybe this will help clear things up.....the elbow didn't make contact with the head.

[rudy]

Still waiting for someone to tell me how an elbow isnt head contact.....

You need someone to tell you that? maybe this will help clear things up.....the elbow didn't make contact with the head.

if you are referring to BSM v. Edina, the elbow did hit the head. My multiple reviews of the play show that. Along with the non-boarding call earlier in the game that Edina dodged, the officials twice trumped the intentions of the MSHSL and chose to avoid calling a major and picked from their list of minors. sad for hockey and confusing for the players and coaches.

the MSHSL needs to review, adjust and bring some logic to the situation. And do it with input from all, not from a handful.

[demongoed]

Even if the elbow did contact the head, not sure it would be called. Same kind of hit occured in a game earlier this season. Player skated by opponent with a high elbow, knocked the helmet off and split open his chin. Call? Interference. Coach called the ref over for an explanation and the ref's justification was the hit was to the chin--coach's question: "Since when is the chin not a part of the head?"

[dangle_snipe]

Still waiting for someone to tell me how an elbow isnt head contact.....

You need someone to tell you that? maybe this will help clear things up.....the elbow didn't make contact with the head.

After watching and Playing hockey my whole life i do t think i have ever seen an elbowing penalty called that wasnt to the head.

[inthestands]

Send inquiries to the MSHSL league if you want something changed...

The coaches and officials were told one thing during the regular season, and we are seeing something completely different during the state tournament where everyone is watching since all the showcasing of the penatly time changes during the season.

The head of officials meet with the state tournament group prior to game play. I can only assume the criteria was specifically given to the referee's on what and how to call the game.

Very disappointing to see what happens when the TV lights are on. This will make the officials, players and coaches jobs that much more difficult when next season starts..

[oldshad77]

[quote="The Enlightened One"]OK, to clear all of this up before hand. I felt and do still feel terrible about what happened to Jack J. I would not Perfect example was that hit behind the net by the Edina kid on the BSM kid. In November that would have sent the Edina kid to the box for 2 minutes, last night the ref had to think about it and then cooked up an excuse to cover his butt.

Are you talking about the Nanne/Moore hit? First of all, Nanne quit striding, and secondly, he lowered his shoulder (no elbow involved here). Is that boarding? He got called for a charge, and that was questionable at best. It looked like a clean hit from the replay. Just because the check had force, doesn't mean you have to call a penalty. Bad call.

[inthestands]

OK, to clear all of this up before hand. I felt and do still feel terrible about what happened to Jack J. I would not Perfect example was that hit behind the net by the Edina kid on the BSM kid. In November that would have sent the Edina kid to the box for 2 minutes, last night the ref had to think about it and then cooked up an excuse to cover his butt.

Are you talking about the Nanne/Moore hit? First of all, Nanne quit striding, and secondly, he lowered his shoulder (no elbow involved here). Is that boarding? He got called for a charge, and that was questionable at best. It looked like a clean hit from the replay. Just because the check had force, doesn't mean you have to call a penalty. Bad call.

The Nanne hit was what they would put a video of on line to show you what to call boarding.

Good check, but the end result was the person being hit crashing into the boards. That is the definition of boarding.

Penalty, yes.
Charging, no.

[Edger]

This entire rule change debacle turned out just like most of us knew it would.
The only refs enforcing the changes are out-state robots who wet their pants every time the mshsl barks.
Nothing has changed for the big-time programs.
There were as many dangerous hits last night as in any tournament in history. It was all big talk, for the top teams. As long as dodge county and fairmont change their games, everyone's happy.
There would have been four or five majors called in that BSM/Edina game, if it was worked by refs who took the mshsl rule changes seriously.

[suntzu]

The first penalty in tonight's championship game? A blatant elbow to the head. Was a 5 minute major called? Of course not.

The MSHSL reacted to a tragic injury with a typical kneejerk reaction, but as an entity, does not have the seeds to back their decision on the big stage. I'll be sending an email to Craig Perry with the MSHSL on Monday morning to express my disappointment...first, with their overreaction in changing the way the game is called and second, with their failure to enforce the rules they made up along the way.