HP 15's and 16's Machine vs Blades?

[bubblehockeypro]

Someone do the work for me as I am lazy and don't have all the info. How many 96's and 97's are Machine or Blades kids? Top 100 in St. Cloud are posted as are the top 16's. All of this talk about development from the Blades and Machine parents those squads should be full of those kids shouldn't they?

I don't want one year wonders that played for the two teams in a tournament or two but kids that played for at least a couple of years for each team. Which one developed more kids?

This should give us parents with younger kids an idea if these programs are what they say they are.

[OneMoreYear]

Someone do the work for me as I am lazy and don't have all the info. How many 96's and 97's are Machine or Blades kids? Top 100 in St. Cloud are posted as are the top 16's. All of this talk about development from the Blades and Machine parents those squads should be full of those kids shouldn't they?

I don't want one year wonders that played for the two teams in a tournament or two but kids that played for at least a couple of years for each team. Which one developed more kids?

This should give us parents with younger kids an idea if these programs are what they say they are.

Can only speak to '97 (15s), and probably missing some. . .but I believe the following kids had some period of "development" time with each program. Someone more in the know could fill in how long!!

'97 Machine:

Jungles (F)
Kaske (F)
Newhouse (D)
Baer (F)
Dolter (F)
Hammer (F)
Muehlbauer (D)
Klehr (D)
Robbel (D)
Bump (F)
Swail (G)
Driscoll (G)
Jungwirth (F)
Hallbeck (D)
Carroll (D)
Zuhlsdorf (D) - last summer with Blades
Saccoman (D) - last two summers with Blades
Sullivan (F)
Versich (F) - last two summer with Legacy

'97 Blades:

Pitlick (F)
Freytag (F)
Boeser (F)
Hines (D)
Garin (F)
Ahrens (G)
Robert (G)
Achan (D)
Saccoman (D)
Zimmer (F)
Dornbach (F)
Duma (F)
Krych (D)
Franta (D)
Jutting (D)
Heid (D)

[bubblehockeypro]

So it is safe to say that BOTH of these programs do a fair job in developing kids. I would say that it is pretty impressive and pretty even in the numbers. So much for the Blade vs Machine arguement. I am sorry that I ruined all the back and fort fun on this forum by posting this.

With almost 40 of the kids out of the 100 on the list spending some time with one of those teams it shows me that 1 either they are doing what they say or 2. They are good recruiters.

Can anyone out there do the research to show if there are otherAAA teams out there with a number of kids on the St Cloud list?

[greyhound89]

How many in the top 100 spent time playing hockey for their local association? I don't want one year wonders that played for their association in a tournament or two but kids that played for at least a couple of years for their home association team.

[donkypunchr]

Couple edits / additions.


'97 Machine:
Jungles (F)
Kaske (F)
Newhouse (D)
Baer (F)
Dolter (F)
Hammer (F)
Muehlbauer (D)
Klehr (D)
Robbel (D)
Bump (F)
Swail (G)
Driscoll (G)
Jungwirth (F) - some time with NATs?
Hallbeck (D)
Carroll (D)
Zuhlsdorf (D) - last summer with Blades
Saccoman (D) - last two summers with Blades
Sullivan (F)


'97 Blades:
Pitlick (F)
Freytag (F)
Boeser (F)
Hines (D)
Garin (F)
Ahrens (G)
Robert (G)
Achan (D)
Saccoman (D)
Zimmer (F)
Dornbach (F)
Duma (F)
Krych (D)
Jutting (D)

'97 legacy
Cornelious (F) - 1 summer with legacy?
Meyer (F)
Mickleson (D) - some time with NATs?
Nystrom (F)
Osterman (D)
Ramirez (F)
Reisdorfer (F)
Versich (F) - one spring with machine, 3 summers legacy


'97 Icemen:
Brumm (F)
Franta (D) - last summer with blades
Heid (D) - last summer with blades

Someone do the work for me as I am lazy and don't have all the info. How many 96's and 97's are Machine or Blades kids? Top 100 in St. Cloud are posted as are the top 16's. All of this talk about development from the Blades and Machine parents those squads should be full of those kids shouldn't they?

I don't want one year wonders that played for the two teams in a tournament or two but kids that played for at least a couple of years for each team. Which one developed more kids?

This should give us parents with younger kids an idea if these programs are what they say they are.

Can only speak to '97 (15s), and probably missing some. . .but I believe the following kids had some period of "development" time with each program. Someone more in the know could fill in how long!!

'97 Machine:

Jungles (F)
Kaske (F)
Newhouse (D)
Baer (F)
Dolter (F)
Hammer (F)
Muehlbauer (D)
Klehr (D)
Robbel (D)
Bump (F)
Swail (G)
Driscoll (G)
Jungwirth (F)
Hallbeck (D)
Carroll (D)
Zuhlsdorf (D) - last summer with Blades
Saccoman (D) - last two summers with Blades
Sullivan (F)
Versich (F) - last two summer with Legacy

'97 Blades:

Pitlick (F)
Freytag (F)
Boeser (F)
Hines (D)
Garin (F)
Ahrens (G)
Robert (G)
Achan (D)
Saccoman (D)
Zimmer (F)
Dornbach (F)
Duma (F)
Krych (D)
Franta (D)
Jutting (D)
Heid (D)

[DrGaf]

How many in the top 100 spent time playing hockey for their local association? I don't want one year wonders that played for their association in a tournament or two but kids that played for at least a couple of years for their home association team.

whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOA.

please do not interject ideas that are counter to the superiority of the obvious 100% responsiblilty of the ELITE programs to a players development.

It is rather obvious that the young men mentioned did NO outside work or training on their own. On the same token, please disregard any credit to genetics, parental upbringing, or just good old fashioned "stick-to-it-ness."

There is only one reasonable question to ask yourself ... "What color jersey did they wear at 12 years old?"

how dare YOU sir!!!

[bubblehockeypro]

How many in the top 100 spent time playing hockey for their local association? I don't want one year wonders that played for their association in a tournament or two but kids that played for at least a couple of years for their home association team.

whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOA.

please do not interject ideas that are counter to the superiority of the obvious 100% responsiblilty of the ELITE programs to a players development.

It is rather obvious that the young men mentioned did NO outside work or training on their own. On the same token, please disregard any credit to genetics, parental upbringing, or just good old fashioned "stick-to-it-ness."

There is only one reasonable question to ask yourself ... "What color jersey did they wear at 12 years old?"

how dare YOU sir!!!

Ok SMartie Pants how many phenoms are there on that list that didn't play any summer hockey? How many are that one kid that didn't play on an association A team until this year? Everyone always says that there are kids that do it all the time. Which one of these kids it THAT kid?

This is the HP development team isn't it? If you look at the web page it says that these kids will have a chance to tryout to play on teams that will be looked at to fill spots on higher level teams. I am newer to this forum but asked a question to find out how to give my son the best chance to develop and I think I have the answer... it isn't take the summer off )

[hockeyoldtimer]

I could be wrong but I believe Spindler from Wayzata played a few years with the Machine/Duece. Also D10's Tyler Turnquiest is really Jordan Turnquist and he played several years with the Blades.

[DrGaf]

How many in the top 100 spent time playing hockey for their local association? I don't want one year wonders that played for their association in a tournament or two but kids that played for at least a couple of years for their home association team.

whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOA.

please do not interject ideas that are counter to the superiority of the obvious 100% responsiblilty of the ELITE programs to a players development.

It is rather obvious that the young men mentioned did NO outside work or training on their own. On the same token, please disregard any credit to genetics, parental upbringing, or just good old fashioned "stick-to-it-ness."

There is only one reasonable question to ask yourself ... "What color jersey did they wear at 12 years old?"

how dare YOU sir!!!

Ok SMartie Pants how many phenoms are there on that list that didn't play any summer hockey? How many are that one kid that didn't play on an association A team until this year? Everyone always says that there are kids that do it all the time. Which one of these kids it THAT kid?

This is the HP development team isn't it? If you look at the web page it says that these kids will have a chance to tryout to play on teams that will be looked at to fill spots on higher level teams. I am newer to this forum but asked a question to find out how to give my son the best chance to develop and I think I have the answer... it isn't take the summer off )

No one is disregarding the fact that the more skilled players in that era played on those teams. HOWEVER, if we completely disregard the efforts, desire, and natural talent these young men possess and pile the praises on the coaches... that is where the disconnect lies. That is where parents and summer "elite" snobs start to believe that lil' Jonny is only worth a damn if he wore the right colors.

I call Bull. Ninety to ninety-five percent of those kids would have made it without regard to the jersey they wore. Why? Because they wanted to.

Sincerely,
SMartie Pants

[Mite-dad]

Just curious. What percent of the HP15 kids did not play summer AAA hockey at all? Anybody know?

[greyhound89]

Just curious. What percent of the HP15 kids did not play summer AAA hockey at all? Anybody know?

I know of one that made it to this final cut (final 100) that not only did he not play summer AAA but he did not participate in summer training.

[woodstick]

The following northern AAA teams had the following players make the St Cloud 102. Please add or correct if error.

CanAm Selects

Brace
Richards
Mellstrom
Mehnert-Meland
LaRoque
Roth
Bethune
Jaycox (alt)
Tharaldson (alt)

Midwest Ice Hogs

Odegaard

(Richards, Brace and Mehnert also played for Hogs)

Northern Wings

Tweeten
Ausmus
Corbid
(Jaycox also played for Wings)

Lake Superior Stars

Sepp
Bischoff
Aamodt

Jr Blizzard

Tarczon

But I agree with SMartie Pants:

"No one is disregarding the fact that the more skilled players in that era played on those teams. HOWEVER, if we completely disregard the efforts, desire, and natural talent these young men possess and pile the praises on the coaches... that is where the disconnect lies. Ninety to ninety-five percent of those kids would have made it without regard to the jersey they wore. Why? Because they wanted to."

The above teams were primarily tournament teams. Yes, they did practice a few times before tourneys but with kids on these teams separated up to 300 miles apart it is hard to come together for the practice and development that so called metro organizations claim. I will say that playing on these teams helped make a lot of these kids better being able to play with higher end kids than where they came from. It is the passion and desire to do the things with what they have avail to be the best they can be.

[Napalm187]

So can we all agree that summer aaa hockey does help, and that both the Machine and Blades are Elite programs and the only true elite programs available? Some years the Machine is better and some years the Blades are better. 95 Blades were better, 96 Machine was better, 97 was pretty even with a slight edge to the Blades, 98 Blades were better, 99 Machine is way better, 2000 Machine is superior to the 2000 Blades even though the Blades have two best players, but the Machine has the far superior team. The '01's are fairly even with a slight edge to machine and the 2002 Machine I believe will be far superior in the long run. Machine had their number last summer, and Blades had the big win down in Chicago. To early to tell on 03's and 04's. You can't go wrong with either program...just depends on personal preference.

[ThePuckStopsHere]

So can we all agree that summer aaa hockey does help, and that both the Machine and Blades are Elite programs and the only true elite programs available? Some years the Machine is better and some years the Blades are better. 95 Blades were better, 96 Machine was better, 97 was pretty even with a slight edge to the Blades, 98 Blades were better, 99 Machine is way better, 2000 Machine is superior to the 2000 Blades even though the Blades have two best players, but the Machine has the far superior team. The '01's are fairly even with a slight edge to machine and the 2002 Machine I believe will be far superior in the long run. Machine had their number last summer, and Blades had the big win down in Chicago. To early to tell on 03's and 04's. You can't go wrong with either program...just depends on personal preference.

Napalm187 - Get a Life Who Flipping Cares

[old goalie85]

The 2010 Blades will be the best hockey team ever.

[Napalm187]

Hey Puck, isn't that the topic on which we are posting about? Blades/Machine? I was just making a comment...and my point is that they are both the best options around. Do some kids make it w/o doing either? Of course! They are not a requirement to being a great player. But a majority of the great metro area kids are on one or the other. If no one cares, why are people posting about it?

[HockeyDad41]

The 2010 Blades will be the best hockey team ever.

I heard the 2010 Miracle Gold team are all mostly first half January birthdays.

[edgeless2]

Puck shouldn't you be fishing or passing on your vast knowledge of horseshoes on such a beautiful day?

[Toomuchtoosoon]

How many of these 97 Blades/Machine played Bantam B1 last year? Not a lot, but a few did. They usually got rid of them, though. Not alot about development there if the kid can't keep up.

Most kids getting recruited to play blades/machine are pretty good to begin with. They would be good no matter where they played. They develop themselves, with the help of others. Showcase and MASH hockey also puts in claims on these players if they played a game in their league.

I do get a kick out of the blades, with the only decent U16 local team, putting a claim into those machine kids who decided to play for them prior to the HS season.

[edgeless2]

So can we all agree that summer aaa hockey does help, and that both the Machine and Blades are Elite programs and the only true elite programs available? Some years the Machine is better and some years the Blades are better. 95 Blades were better, 96 Machine was better, 97 was pretty even with a slight edge to the Blades, 98 Blades were better, 99 Machine is way better, 2000 Machine is superior to the 2000 Blades even though the Blades have two best players, but the Machine has the far superior team. The '01's are fairly even with a slight edge to machine and the 2002 Machine I believe will be far superior in the long run. Machine had their number last summer, and Blades had the big win down in Chicago. To early to tell on 03's and 04's. You can't go wrong with either program...just depends on personal preference.

Napalm where have the two best players at 00 level been? It appears the last three games these teams have played has a cumulative score of 15-1. Maybe I'm wrong but I would think the best two players should be able to have some sort of impact.

[hockeyday]

The following northern AAA teams had the following players make the St Cloud 102. Please add or correct if error.

CanAm Selects

Brace
Richards
Mellstrom
Mehnert-Meland
LaRoque
Roth
Bethune
Atteberry
Adams
Jaycox (alt)
Tharaldson (alt)

9 Canadian players and 1 other US player play AAA in Northwestern Ontario Canada, BC and Iowa and aren't elligible.

[Tigers33]

Developing would be taking kids not on the list and getting them to the list. Not just taking the best every year.

My kids are both young still, mite and squirt. When can they be on the blades and machine and motor and etc.

AAA is what has made hockey parents so nuts. When is the top 100 squirt list coming out?

[MNM JMH]

AAA is what has made hockey parents so nuts. When is the top 100 squirt list coming out? [/quote]

We should only hope NEVER.

[Napalm187]

Napalm where have the two best players at 00 level been? It appears the last three games these teams have played has a cumulative score of 15-1. Maybe I'm wrong but I would think the best two players should be able to have some sort of impact.


Good question. The 2000 Orange is very impressive. Probably, all in all, the most accomplished AAA team at any age level in MN. For all his detractors and I'm not his biggest fan...Keith can coach. That team doesn't have one or two players that can beat you. They play the best as a "team" as any AAA team does.

MNM JMH. If you hate it so much and think AAA hockey has ruined hockey. Do something about it. Don't pay attention to it, or try and buck the trend and have your kid do his own thang! We get it.

[MNM JMH]

Napalm where have the two best players at 00 level been? It appears the last three games these teams have played has a cumulative score of 15-1. Maybe I'm wrong but I would think the best two players should be able to have some sort of impact.


Good question. The 2000 Orange is very impressive. Probably, all in all, the most accomplished AAA team at any age level in MN. For all his detractors and I'm not his biggest fan...Keith can coach. That team doesn't have one or two players that can beat you. They play the best as a "team" as any AAA team does.

MNM JMH. If you hate it so much and think AAA hockey has ruined hockey. Do something about it. Don't pay attention to it, or try and buck the trend and have your kid do his own thang! We get it.

Wired... You are... I never said any of that.
Not buckin any trend.
Yes the ORG is impressive. But you want to have a list of squirt players to look at. Why? Who gets to make that list?