News out of District 10

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:45 am

St Francis and Irondale have joined teams and are co-oping at the Pee Wee and Bantam levels. They presented this information to Tim Timm at the D10 presidents meeting on Monday night. Here is what they presented him for playing levels.

Bantams
AA
B1
B2

Pee Wees
AA
B1
B2

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:01 pm

Sounds like Cambridge - Isanti - Mora will be doing the same.

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:03 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:Sounds like Cambridge - Isanti - Mora will be doing the same.

That is also good news and will get the kids able to play at the correct levels.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:33 pm

Bleed Maroon and Gold wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:Sounds like Cambridge - Isanti - Mora will be doing the same.
That is also good news and will get the kids able to play at the correct levels.

Sounds like there will be many new look teams out there.

Great news for the 1-16 that make the AA team, but it will leave many (having no new A level) in a less than ideal situation playing at a level lower(B-1) than their capabilities..

Irondale 8 rostered AA
St. Francis 8 rostered AA
Equals a 16 player AA Elite team.

St Francis 8 rostered new B-1
Irondale 8 rostered new B-1
Equals 16 that WOULD have been on their association's top team.
Equals 16 that probably COULD play at the new A( the real B-1) level.

Have you had any feedback yet from the parents of borderline AA kids?

Hope it goes well, but I can see some snags...

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:14 pm

Bo: You are probably right with your example. St. Francis and Irondale should have each fielded an "A" team.

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:24 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Bo: You are probably right with your example. St. Francis and Irondale should have each fielded an "A" team.

Bob when you coop you are not given a choice or an option to play at the "A" level you take the highest letter designation and have to play at that level. You can not petition to play at the "A" level when you co-op. Otherwise I am sure they would have chosen to do so,

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:21 pm

Bleed M&G: I am confused. It sounded like anyone can petition up or down?

The point I was making based on Bo's scenario of 8 kids from here and 8 kids from there, was they shouldn't co-op and just each association should field an A team. Neither program has been played at the A level deep into the post season? So what does playing AA do for them? (Remember, everyone is "A" all season until the play-offs to State)

People continue over thinking this thing.

Bo continues to worry the gap from AA to B1 is so wide. But if this is true, associations will learn quickly and play A instead of B1.

A program capable of fielding a AA team should be capable of fielding an A team as well. If their 16-30 players are that far away from the A level, then my guess is they should petition out of the AA level if being forced there by high school enrollment. (i.e. Winona, Dodge County, Owatonna, etc)

I don't want to hear about beating Edina or similar mega-associations at every level either. I'm talking about playing at the level that provides 30-40 competitive games with a reasonable chance to play past Valentine's Day. (By competitive games I mean a season with a 500+/- record without alot of 0-10 loses and 10-0 wins)

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:39 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Bleed M&G: I am confused. It sounded like anyone can petition up or down?

The point I was making based on Bo's scenario of 8 kids from here and 8 kids from there, was they shouldn't co-op and just each association should field an A team. Neither program has been played at the A level deep into the post season? So what does playing AA do for them? (Remember, everyone is "A" all season until the play-offs to State)

People continue over thinking this thing.

Bo continues to worry the gap from AA to B1 is so wide. But if this is true, associations will learn quickly and play A instead of B1.

A program capable of fielding a AA team should be capable of fielding an A team as well. If their 16-30 players are that far away from the A level, then my guess is they should petition out of the AA level if being forced there by high school enrollment. (i.e. Winona, Dodge County, Owatonna, etc)

I don't want to hear about beating Edina or similar mega-associations at every level either. I'm talking about playing at the level that provides 30-40 competitive games with a reasonable chance to play past Valentine's Day. (By competitive games I mean a season with a 500+/- record without alot of 0-10 loses and 10-0 wins)

You WILL have your "0-10" losses if you remember that everyone DOES plays "A" during the regular season.... You are correct! You want Irondale and St. Franny to go it alone as A against AA clubs during the whole regular season, or should they try to compete?

Irondale and St. Francis are trying to remedy that now by combining.

I'm not able to understand your logic... A will play AA, RIGHT?

Back 20 years now?

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:42 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Bleed M&G: I am confused. It sounded like anyone can petition up or down?

The point I was making based on Bo's scenario of 8 kids from here and 8 kids from there, was they shouldn't co-op and just each association should field an A team. Neither program has been played at the A level deep into the post season? So what does playing AA do for them? (Remember, everyone is "A" all season until the play-offs to State)

People continue over thinking this thing.

Bo continues to worry the gap from AA to B1 is so wide. But if this is true, associations will learn quickly and play A instead of B1.

A program capable of fielding a AA team should be capable of fielding an A team as well. If their 16-30 players are that far away from the A level, then my guess is they should petition out of the AA level if being forced there by high school enrollment. (i.e. Winona, Dodge County, Owatonna, etc)

I don't want to hear about beating Edina or similar mega-associations at every level either. I'm talking about playing at the level that provides 30-40 competitive games with a reasonable chance to play past Valentine's Day. (By competitive games I mean a season with a 500+/- record without alot of 0-10 loses and 10-0 wins)

Who is saying that both associations have 8 A level players?

try outs and registration aren't even complete at either of these associations so who knows what the association has.

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:05 pm

Good point Bo. I forgot how wide the gap is in District 10 for haves and have nots. Centential, Elk River and Blaine still might run the table? Will these 3 associations go AA - B1 or have A teams also?

As to the 20 year setback, keep in mind that prediction is based on how MN Hockey answers all the special interest favor requests. (Like co-ops and other monkey business)

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:07 pm

M&G: Bo painted this example:

Irondale 8 rostered AA
St. Francis 8 rostered AA
Equals a 16 player AA Elite team.

St Francis 8 rostered new B-1
Irondale 8 rostered new B-1
Equals 16 that WOULD have been on their association's top team.
Equals 16 that probably COULD play at the new A(the real B-1) level.

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:09 pm

And in reference to Bo's scenario. Ask the question, how many players would Irondale and St. Francis have that would make the AA squads at Centenial, Elk River or Blaine?

dlow · Post by **dlow** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:27 pm

Geographically this co-op makes no sense. There has got to be at least a half dozen associations closer to Irondale or St Francis than each other.

Why wouldn't St Francis coop w/Cambridge-Isanti?

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:58 am

dlow wrote:Geographically this co-op makes no sense. There has got to be at least a half dozen associations closer to Irondale or St Francis than each other.

Why wouldn't St Francis coop w/Cambridge-Isanti?

North St Paul and Johnson-Como also considered a Bantam co-op for this year. Two joint practices were held over the summer but it fell through and won't happen this year.

]

It may not make sense to you but it made sense to Irondale and St Francis to make this work. Both St Francis and Irondale ran their summer camps together and both needed to find a co-op at the Pee Wee and Bantam level so it works for them.

loveitorleaveit · Post by **loveitorleaveit** » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:55 pm

dlow wrote:Geographically this co-op makes no sense. There has got to be at least a half dozen associations closer to Irondale or St Francis than each other.

Why wouldn't St Francis coop w/Cambridge-Isanti?

North St Paul and Johnson-Como also considered a Bantam co-op for this year. Two joint practices were held over the summer but it fell through and won't happen this year.

I heard Irondale was asking all sorts of associations, including, but not limited too, Mounds View-Coon Rapids-Spring Lake Park.

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:51 pm

loveitorleaveit wrote:
dlow wrote:Geographically this co-op makes no sense. There has got to be at least a half dozen associations closer to Irondale or St Francis than each other.

Why wouldn't St Francis coop w/Cambridge-Isanti?

North St Paul and Johnson-Como also considered a Bantam co-op for this year. Two joint practices were held over the summer but it fell through and won't happen this year.
I heard Irondale was asking all sorts of associations, including, but not limited too, Mounds View-Coon Rapids-Spring Lake Park.

Not sure they talked to spring lake park. But yes they talked with Coon Rapids who turned them down. Mounds view would of made sense as they do share the same school district but not sure that would have worked out. But yes St Francis seems to be the only association that was willing to work with them.

loveitorleaveit · Post by **loveitorleaveit** » Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:56 pm

Bleed Maroon and Gold wrote:
loveitorleaveit wrote:
dlow wrote:Geographically this co-op makes no sense. There has got to be at least a half dozen associations closer to Irondale or St Francis than each other.

Why wouldn't St Francis coop w/Cambridge-Isanti?

North St Paul and Johnson-Como also considered a Bantam co-op for this year. Two joint practices were held over the summer but it fell through and won't happen this year.
I heard Irondale was asking all sorts of associations, including, but not limited too, Mounds View-Coon Rapids-Spring Lake Park.
Not sure they talked to spring lake park. But yes they talked with Coon Rapids who turned them down. Mounds view would of made sense as they do share the same school district but not sure that would have worked out. But yes St Francis seems to be the only association that was willing to work with them.

I've been trying to think of another program like Irondale that is a high school and isn't a city/town. I just can't see a program working well if you are trying to feed into a dead program.

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:51 pm

loveitorleaveit wrote:
Bleed Maroon and Gold wrote:
loveitorleaveit wrote: I heard Irondale was asking all sorts of associations, including, but not limited too, Mounds View-Coon Rapids-Spring Lake Park.
Not sure they talked to spring lake park. But yes they talked with Coon Rapids who turned them down. Mounds view would of made sense as they do share the same school district but not sure that would have worked out. But yes St Francis seems to be the only association that was willing to work with them.
I've been trying to think of another program like Irondale that is a high school and isn't a city/town. I just can't see a program working well if you are trying to feed into a dead program.

Can I ask how this is a dead program? The Irondale program is the cities of Mounds View and New Brighton which feeds into Irondale high school.

flpucknut · Post by **flpucknut** » Sat Sep 15, 2012 10:05 am

Bleed Maroon and Gold - Trolls, almost across the board there. I've almost decided its not worth the 95% BS posts I have to filter through to actually read good comments with pertinent INFORMATION and not speculation and opinion.

Sometimes I think the Youth part of Youth hockey gets lost.

BTW - Irondale alumni here.

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:15 am

Regarding Irondale being a high school, not a city. Would that mean many Irondale future students are not playing hockey in the Irondale program? Could the same be said for programs like Centenial? East View?

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:18 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:Regarding Irondale being a high school, not a city. Would that mean many Irondale future students are not playing hockey in the Irondale program? Could the same be said for programs like Centenial? East View?

No almost all the players in the high school program from last year played Irondale youth hockey. I actually think the high school loses some of its youth players to Totino Grace. They very rarely gain players from other associations at the highs school level.

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:39 pm

I was wondering how many kids that "should" play Irondale youth hockey, waive out to neighboring associations? Very few "metro" associations actually have all youth players going to one high school? Between the privates and green pastures, I'd assume is very rare for a metro association to actually feed one high school?

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:48 pm

Irondale does not lose many at the youth levels to other associations because they still have boundaries like any other association. You would need a waiver out of the association.

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:57 pm

Or open enroll out for school?

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:50 pm

BadgerBob82 wrote:Or open enroll out for school?

They are an association and need to follow the same waiver rules everyone else does with Minnesota hockey and waivers.