Wayzata

[backspin]

I've followed Wayzata girls hockey since my daughter played through the system and graduated several years back. Can someone explain to me why a program that has reasonably strong success at the youth/U14 level struggles at the HS level year after year?

[Rocketwrister]

I thought Wayzata was doing well this year...??? I must be wrong, or I don't know the expectations.

[36Guy]

Well a couple of things...first, Wazata loses too many girls to private schools. Camernesi, Chute are big time players and that is just the start. Winning teams at all levels have some depth and in girls hockey it is hard to come by. Second, I am pretty sure the coaching there is not helping. I know a lot of people there that are not real confident in the coaches competence and few coaches are afraid to match X's and O's with her. They need a great coach if they want to keep all the girls home.

[Tigers33]

Lack of talent in my opinion. Youth success at the girls level had nothing to do with success at the hs level. Most teams top 9th graders are playing high school. Some teams don't even have a u14 team.

Private schools don't help either.

Pretty quick trigger to throw the coach under the bus. Huh?

[MNHockeyFan]

I went back and looked at Wayzata's results and yes it's been a while since they've had much success. And success is a relative term because there are of course many other teams that would love to have done as well. But given Wayzata's numbers in their youth program, the size and location of the school, the demographics of the families, etc. you would have to say that overall their results have been somewhat disappointing.

I went back to 2004-05 and found that this was the last time the Trojans made it to the State Tournament. That year they won their first game but lost to South St. Paul in the semi's.

The following two years (2005-06 and 2006-07) they made it to the Section finals, but lost to Eden Prairie (0-2) and BSM (2-3) respectively. 2006-07 was the last year when they made it to the Section 6AA finals. I think everyone would agree that one reason Wayzata hasn't had much success in post-season play for the past five years or so is that they are in what is probably the strongest section in the state.

Over the years my impression is that the main thing that has kept Wayzata from doing better is a lack of prolific scorers. That appears to be the case again this year as their top point producer has just 20 points, and no one else is averaging a point a game. Meanwhile all of the better teams in the section, including Minnetonka, BSM, Buffalo, Hopkins and Armstrong/Cooper, all have a player or two or three who are consistently able to score, which of course makes it harder for opposing teams to defend. Wayzata has always had their share of good, all-around players, but for the most part they've been missing those real standouts that always seem to find a way to put the puck in the net.

I know that several years ago there were some very good players who grew up in the Wayzata school district that chose to go to a private school, and there were even a couple who open enrolled at Hopkins. Not sure how many Wayzata is "losing" now, but given the relative wealth of families in the district you certainly have to expect that some families will choose a private school alternative.

[brookyone]

A top 10 ranking in AA, #8, in Minnesota, with the level of competition in the metro...doesn't really merit disappointment per the current season in my view.

The coach as causal theory is dead wrong in my opinion. Honestly, seems they've made strides and are headed in the right direction to me. Also think the point regarding a likelihood of talented local players with the means for going the private route is valid. I can't really place a responsibility for that solely on the coach.

Looks as though their losses are nearly exclusively one goal games...excepting Edina.

I'll assume those coaches whose teams lost to the Trojans would no doubt cite some reason outside of X's and O's as the reason for their defeat at the hand of Wayzata. Not really understanding that observation. Are there coaches typically fearful in that respect?

Also, this:

http://www.bgoski.com/KRACH_SOS_20130112.htm

Appears their SOS is definitely NOT negligible or something that can be disregarded in any assessment.

Ditto what Tigers33 said:

Pretty quick trigger to throw the coach under the bus. Huh?

[GopherFanARM]

Over the years my impression is that the main thing that has kept Wayzata from doing better is a lack of prolific scorers. That appears to be the case again this year as their top point producer has just 20 points, and no one else is averaging a point a game. Meanwhile all of the better teams in the section, including Minnetonka, BSM, Buffalo, Hopkins and Armstrong/Cooper, all have a player or two or three who are consistently able to score, which of course makes it harder for opposing teams to defend. Wayzata has always had their share of good, all-around players, but for the most part they've been missing those real standouts that always seem to find a way to put the puck in the net.

I agree totally with this. I don't remember too many programs over the years that have had been contenders for State w/o some star power. And most of the biggest stars can be picked out by the time that they are in 8th or 9th grade. I haven't seen those on the Wayzata roster, but maybe if they were my kids, I'd have a more inflated opinion of them. The higher the per capita income in a district, the more likely the problem is to be coaching if the kids don't win.

[Tigers33]

36guy - If one of your previous posts is true telling people who you are, than things are a little more clearer to me. Since many people have their own opinion of you.

[36Guy]

Mr. Tiger..I am aware that people have opinions of me and I am Ok with that. A good friend told me a long time ago.."If you want to make friends, don't get into coaching". If my blog was too negative I apologize. If you look at my history, I like to poke fun, but try not to be too negative. However, back to Wayzata. My private school take was accurate. They have lost two Miss Hockey's and many more to private. Right, wrong or indifferent, it hurts any program. In addition, on the coaching comment... I said I was not sure and that others had expressed competence concerns all which is true. Just passing along what I have heard from many people. I am also pretty sure Backspins question was to invoke feedback regarding his perceived failures at the high school level. Hence the term blog!

[sinbin]

Losing top players to privates and Lake Conference/Section 6 brutality. How many wins is any team supposed to garner when they play Tonka, Edina, EP, and Hopkins 8+ times a year? If I recall, Wayzata defeated Tonka last season. Also agree with MHF that Wayzata has been traditionally solid at youth and HS the past 5 years or so, but has lacked the big scorers. So, a solid pyramid base, but a lower flat top without any peaks.

[36Guy]

Losing top players to privates and Lake Conference/Section 6 brutality. How many wins is any team supposed to garner when they play Tonka, Edina, EP, and Hopkins 8+ times a year? If I recall, Wayzata defeated Tonka last season. Also agree with MHF that Wayzata has been traditionally solid at youth and HS the past 5 years or so, but has lacked the big scorers. So, a solid pyramid base, but a lower flat top without any peaks.

I agree that those are very tough games, but they do produce scorers. K. Chute was Ms Hockey..M. Chute was Runner up...Cameranesi has been know to score once in a while, all from Wayzata and that is just the tip of the iceberg. This hurts Wayzata big time. But each family does what they think is right for their child (school and sports) and thats the way it should be.

[sinbin]

36, agreed, I probably should have clarified that the tip of the pyramid was chopped off (i.e., moved from public to private) so that they don't currently have amazing scorers in their system. Also agreed that everyone should do what is best for their own child.

[backspin]

Thanks for the comments. It's clear to me that losing a player like Camernisi hurts a team. She is extremely talented. But, I don't think this is as big an issue as portrayed. Many programs lose important players. Setting aside these one off superstars, I would offer that losing key defense, goaltenders and 1st and 2nd line strong players is equally impactful. And, losing great leaders is even more crushing to a program.

I don't know enough about the coaching to be critical. I do know that a bad coach and a bad staff can be a detriment and a good coach and strong staff can really help a program, in a bunch of ways. I've watched 9 games this year and I'm not sure what to think of the coaching. We all hear things. The trick is sifting through and figuring out what's sort of true...

If anyone has better insight on the coaching, I'd be interested in some objective comments. This is not a coach lynching.

[EPIC97]

The big sheet of ice they play on should be an advantage to them however it's not. The big sheet does not lend it's self to scoring and therefore when you play half of your games on the big sheet and you only score 2 goals a game you start to beleive you are not a scoring team.
As association players I expect they played 10% of their games on the big sheet.
It would be interesting to look at visiting teams scoring number averages vs. when they play Wayzata. That would take more time then I have.
However if you look at Wayzata's own scoring averge this season it does make you think.
At home Wayzata has scored 13 goals in 7 games for an average of 1.85 GPG, Away they have scored 41 goals in 11 games for an average of 3.73 GPG.
When you are dealing with a team that thinks they can't score it carries over as a mind set.
Watching our own team play at Wayzata the game always seems slower and the chances to score fewer.

[clutterbucket]

Not sure about the Chute girls, but Cameranesi never played girls hockey at Wayzata...she always played boys, so it's hard to argue they lost her from the girls program. Wayzata does lose players to privates, but no more than any other schools in the western suburbs. Most western suburb schools lose one or two players per team to privates, but Wayzata might lose 3-4, however they have a much larger base to start from. Most programs are lucky to have 2 teams at U10, Wayzata typically has 4.