Section Realignment

[inthetwine]

This is a Section Realignment year, and usually they are out before the State Tourny, has anything been done yet?

[D3Referee]

They should give some serious thought to stacking privates in 1 or 2 sections. With St Thomas coming in, we risk a scenario where you've got the metro represented on an annual basis by Hill Murray, BSM, St. Thomas and Edina (which, let's face it - benefits as well as any private from elite move-ins)

Might as well move Holy family to 5AA and make it an all Private Tournament from the metro against whatever the rural areas can muster.

There's a real danger here of having a AAA type effect in metro sections, where all the best players get stacked on section "all star" teams.

One way to prevent this is put them all in one section, or at least 2 sections (East/West or North/South)

[allstatebenders]

Just please make a private school tournament. Or put them all in one section. It's ruining high school hockey.

[defense]

Agree, the mshsl needs to definitely be proactive in making sure they don't let the privates wreck it. Will they though??? Im guessing not...

[easton18]

Put them all in the same tournament and that tournament will slowly become the more dominant and competitive tournament. Put them all in one section and you'll just further dilute the quality of the existing tourney. I don't know what some of you have against private schools, but if the MSHSL makes a clean break from private schools the system will slowly evolve into an east coast type environment. Schools will recruit (legally and openly), will be able to offer "scholarships" for players, and the level of talent will slowly but surely fade from the public schools to the private schools. That being said, obviously not everyone can afford a private school, and there will be talent left in the public school system, but the overall level of play will decrease as private schools are more readily able to incentivize players that want to make the jump. Just my $0.02 but I really think the MSHSL needs to deal with this in a way that ensures the top talent is able to play within the MSHSL-sponsored system, and putting them into a separate tournament or section will dilute the overall quality of high school hockey in Minnesota. Love to hear counter opinions, as this is just one man's opinion.

[D3Referee]

Schools will recruit (legally and openly), will be able to offer "scholarships" for players, and the level of talent will slowly but surely fade from the public schools to the private schools. That being said, obviously not everyone can afford a private school, and there will be talent left in the public school system, but the overall level of play will decrease as private schools are more readily able to incentivize players that want to make the jump.

Perhaps the NCAA just needs to get involved and equate these financial incentives as "professional skill-based renumeration" as they have done with Major Juniors, thereby making these players ineligible for D1 play. That should clean it up to some degree.

[koolio]

After finishing 6th and 7th in the South Suburban, Lakeville North and South are once again playing for their annual free pass (Section 1AA) to advance to the state tournament. It's time the 1AA playing field gets leveled via realignment. Taking a look at the map, it seems Burnsville and Prior Lake would be ideal additions. Hastings, Apple Valley and Eastview are other prospects. Southern MN just does not seem to be advancing in competitiveness/strength of program.

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/page/show/14 ... -standings

[scorekeeper]

After finishing 6th and 7th in the South Suburban, Lakeville North and South are once again playing for their annual free pass (Section 1AA) to advance to the state tournament. It's time the 1AA playing field gets leveled via realignment. Taking a look at the map, it seems Burnsville and Prior Lake would be ideal additions. Hastings, Apple Valley and Eastview are other prospects. Southern MN just does not seem to be advancing in competitiveness/strength of program.

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/page/show/14 ... -standings

8AA is just as bad. Maybe move Elk River and Andover to 8AA. How many free passes have the Spuds been involved with over the past 16 years?
http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2012&a=1&v=702

[northwoods oldtimer]

After finishing 6th and 7th in the South Suburban, Lakeville North and South are once again playing for their annual free pass (Section 1AA) to advance to the state tournament. It's time the 1AA playing field gets leveled via realignment. Taking a look at the map, it seems Burnsville and Prior Lake would be ideal additions. Hastings, Apple Valley and Eastview are other prospects. Southern MN just does not seem to be advancing in competitiveness/strength of program.

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/page/show/14 ... -standings

8AA is just as bad. Maybe move Elk River and Andover to 8AA. How many free passes have the Spuds been involved with over the past 16 years?
http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2012&a=1&v=702

Lets just make it a section 6 tournament so you west side PLEASE BAN ME can fill St. Paul.

[easton18]

After finishing 6th and 7th in the South Suburban, Lakeville North and South are once again playing for their annual free pass (Section 1AA) to advance to the state tournament. It's time the 1AA playing field gets leveled via realignment. Taking a look at the map, it seems Burnsville and Prior Lake would be ideal additions. Hastings, Apple Valley and Eastview are other prospects. Southern MN just does not seem to be advancing in competitiveness/strength of program.

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/page/show/14 ... -standings

8AA is just as bad. Maybe move Elk River and Andover to 8AA. How many free passes have the Spuds been involved with over the past 16 years?
http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2012&a=1&v=702

Lets just make it a section 6 tournament so you west side PLEASE BAN ME can fill St. Paul.

If you don't want the top talent playing at the X come March, that's your deal. I for one, like to see the best teams playing in the state tournament and I believe the sections should be realigned so that perennial contenders are not all stacked in two or three sections. Call me crazy, but I've been paying my $190 a year for far too long to repeatedly see below average teams from 1AA get a free pass to the tourney.

[joris016]

Those who believe 8AA is just as bad as 1AA are delusional. Roseau won state in 2007 and went undefeated in 08 only to be upset by eventual champion Hill. Moorhead has been to many state championships so can we quit talking about the free pass that 8AA gets. Come on people.

[DubCHAGuy]

After finishing 6th and 7th in the South Suburban, Lakeville North and South are once again playing for their annual free pass (Section 1AA) to advance to the state tournament. It's time the 1AA playing field gets leveled via realignment. Taking a look at the map, it seems Burnsville and Prior Lake would be ideal additions. Hastings, Apple Valley and Eastview are other prospects. Southern MN just does not seem to be advancing in competitiveness/strength of program.

http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/page/show/14 ... -standings

8AA is just as bad. Maybe move Elk River and Andover to 8AA. How many free passes have the Spuds been involved with over the past 16 years?
http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2012&a=1&v=702

8AA is 14-7 on Thursday of the state tournament since the 2 class system started, and has had a team in the championship game 9 times in those 21 years. I don't think 8AA is a problem.

1AA needs another competitive program. With Century likely going down to class A, Hastings and Prior Lake would make the most sense.

[northwoods oldtimer]

8AA is just as bad. Maybe move Elk River and Andover to 8AA. How many free passes have the Spuds been involved with over the past 16 years?
http://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2012&a=1&v=702

Lets just make it a section 6 tournament so you west side PLEASE BAN ME can fill St. Paul.

If you don't want the top talent playing at the X come March, that's your deal. I for one, like to see the best teams playing in the state tournament and I believe the sections should be realigned so that perennial contenders are not all stacked in two or three sections. Call me crazy, but I've been paying my $190 a year for far too long to repeatedly see below average teams from 1AA get a free pass to the tourney.

You can save a pile of cash to go wacth your dream teams at Excel in December, the janitor might even let you in the back door for free.

[easton18]

Lets just make it a section 6 tournament so you west side PLEASE BAN ME can fill St. Paul.

If you don't want the top talent playing at the X come March, that's your deal. I for one, like to see the best teams playing in the state tournament and I believe the sections should be realigned so that perennial contenders are not all stacked in two or three sections. Call me crazy, but I've been paying my $190 a year for far too long to repeatedly see below average teams from 1AA get a free pass to the tourney.

You can save a pile of cash to go wacth your dream teams at Excel in December, the janitor might even let you in the back door for free.

What's your problem with the south/west suburbs? Sorry if whatever school/region you come from has been less competitive recently but the point of the tournament is to showcase the most talented teams in the state, so in MY opinion, the sections should be aligned as such. If you disagree with that then this discussion is over, as I cannot change the mind of someone with such deep-bred ignorance.

[joey]

I would like to ask the favor of someone with accurate knowledge of the MSHSL process to please shed some light on this question:

How is the composition of the sectional teams determined? How often does the MSHSL implement section re-assignments? What, exactly, is the process? Is there a vote taken, or is it decided by a committee? Who are the people invloved?

I have wondered exactly how this process works for years.

Through my own children's hockey experiences, I have had the great good fortune to get to know personally know half a dozen or more players on most metro area teams. It's been fantastic following all these kids through the years.

I know many families in section 1AA. Most of them are just as baffled about this section's team composition as the board posters in this thread.
How on earth is it that Burnsville, Prior Lake, Apple Valley and Eagan are not in this section? Who decides these things? What is their rationale?

I hope that I can get a legitimate response. The folks who have kids in section 1AA are very acutely aware of the fact that their section is so oddly composed, and that their kids have a much easier shot at making to the X than the kids (literally) just across the street in sections 2AA or 3AA.

These kids play who they're scheduled to play, and their families cheer when they succeed. So, if you would like to rip on them simply because the MSHSL has assigned them to play in 1AA, please just turn the page.

I am asking for some knowledgeable insights as to how the sectional composition is determined, because I truly have no idea how the present alignment has come to be. Someone, somewhere must have approved the present arrangement.

Thank you for your considered responses.

[jeffpv]

In Class A, obviously 3A needs looking at.
The representative the past few years, New Ulm, has gottten waxed repeatedly at State. This year, the representative will be either Marshall or the 7-win Hutchinson team, either of which will get slaughtered once in St Paul.
There is no team in 3A who look to be competitive (in state-wide terms), why not place a couple of better teams there?
Not sure who, just thinking aloud.

[goldy313]

Football went to a cross bracket at the round of 16 in the biggest class, essentially the Lake, South Suburban, Northwest Suburban, and Suburban East ( geez can we be any less creative in naming?) had their own section. There are 32 teams in 6A and after the first round they crossed over, guess what happened? Every team from the Lake and SSC beat their counterparts no matter the seed.

The Lake and SSC are at this time and point are better than the other conferences. I guess the question is do you want a state tournament or a Lake vs SSC showcase? Because if you want the best teams that's what you'll have. Moorhead, Roseau, Grand Rapids, Duluth East, etc won't be there most years now.

[fivehole628]

Whatever they do, GET RID OF SECTION 3A!!!!!!!!

[keepyourheadup]

I suspect sec 1AA will be dealt with this year. The last couple years they have done ok, 4-2, at the X but this year looks to be a tough one. We are going to see a team with either 12 or 13 wins make it to the big dance. Its a systemic problem and blaming the schools assigned to section 1AA is pointless. Only one problem moving Burnsville and Prior Lake....Edina is left with a cake walk. Eagan has a pretty soft road as well. I know everyone seems to hate the privates but why not STA to 4, BSM to 2 and then B'ville and PL can slide to section 1AA.

[DubCHAGuy]

How is the composition of the sectional teams determined? How often does the MSHSL implement section re-assignments? What, exactly, is the process?

Geography is the only criteria as far as I know.
Every 2 years.
Largest 64 enrollments and anyone else who wants in make up class AA, everyone else is class A.

I know many families in section 1AA. Most of them are just as baffled about this section's team composition as the board posters in this thread.
How on earth is it that Burnsville, Prior Lake, Apple Valley and Eagan are not in this section? Who decides these things? What is their rationale?

The 9 southern most schools in AA make up section 1AA. None of those schools are located as far south as Lakeville North (the northern most school in the section).

This year with enrollment changes and new opt ups, they could balance the sections in a way that makes sense by their own criteria. Prior Lake or Hastings down to 1AA, STA into 3AA with Eagan, possibly Wayzata over to 5AA, Centennial over to 4AA, just to name a few possibilities.

[easton18]

How is the composition of the sectional teams determined? How often does the MSHSL implement section re-assignments? What, exactly, is the process?

Geography is the only criteria as far as I know.

I think a lot of people overestimate how well the MSHSL can realign sections. I'll be the first to say that the alignment now is not ideal and can be vastly improved, but we all have to understand that at some point, parity is not achievable because of geography and the fact that (public) schools don't have the money to make two to three cross-state trips for section games.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

Is anyone seriously suggesting that adding Hastings and Prior Lake to 1AA will make that section's entrant significantly better? One of those hasn't been to the tournament since it was at the Target Center and I don't even know if the other has been to section final.

The geography of the state relative to the distribution of the population makes AA sections difficult to do. By geography alone, northern Minnesota could have one section. That would cause a firestorm, so the MSHSL won't do it. Avoiding political fallout isn't in the section realignment standards, except of course they are.

The south west metro engenders quite a bit of hatred these days. Back in the 60's, did the was the Iron Range treated the same?

I say, make Section 1AA a nouveau back-door section. The champion plays the runner-up from 6AA. Or let the Lake Conference champion play the Sec 1AA winner.

While section 8AA usually features a significant drop-off from the 1 to the 2 seed, the champion over the years has done very respectably at the X, which is short for Xcel, not Excel.

[slacsap]

Previous posters are correct that geography is the determining factor in structure of sections in all sports (with the exception of the new Class in football). The MSHSL does not consider competitive balance at all in determining the make up of sections. Whether this is a good idea or not can be debated, but it is extremely unlikely the MSHSL will change its policies anytime in the near future. I would guess, based solely on geography, that STA would be placed in Section 3AA next year and a couple of schools may be moved to balance the number of schools per section, but the MSHSL rarely makes wholesale changes in sections (I think there were only 1 or 2 changes statewide two years ago)

[DubCHAGuy]

Is anyone seriously suggesting that adding Hastings and Prior Lake to 1AA will make that section's entrant significantly better? One of those hasn't been to the tournament since it was at the Target Center and I don't even know if the other has been to section final.

Check out the youth rankings. Prior Lake's program is improving rapidly, the Lakeville's are better at the youth level than the current HS group at both schools, and Farmington could be a top 20 team in a couple years. Hastings is just average, but you never know when they could get a group like they had in the late 90s-early 2000s. It could be a much better section and still make sense geographically, that's all.

I personally like your back door section idea, just trying to stick to realistic ideas that the MSHSL might actually consider.

[East Side Pioneer Guy]

slacsap re: realistic possibilities:

A boy can dream, can't I? Heh heh.

I think Prior Lake has another high school in it's district. Is that the case? Because what Section 1AA really needs is a one high school district with a good hockey program. Rochester and Lakeville have too many schools (for a good hockey program).

Yeah, I understand Prior Lake is an up-and-comer. But I'll believe it when I see it. Same deal with Farmington. I heard the same thing about Inver Grove Heights (Simley) in the 80's. I think they made it to the section final once.

Hastings was a flash in the pan, they had one good group of athletes, many of them with the same last name. Though it was a very talented bunch.